28th October, 2013 - Human!

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AntMac
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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by AntMac » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:56 pm

Maur wrote:[It is clear that you were implying what i responded to..

I am your friend, and we seem to accidentally have got to contention much against my wishes and the reason is a misunderstanding by you, of what I wrote. So, in the interest of amicable relations, I am going to clear a misconception or two up, that you have addressed specifically to me. If you or any other interested parties care to look back, you will find I never, N.E.V.E.R. "correct" random mistakes here, though I see them by the hundred every time I read a few posts. Hell, I don't even intervene when the usual suspects start arguing over the meaning of words, though I could, and with unmistakeable authority, i.e. I would be correct, which is authority enough on the inter-webs. And I ALWAYS ( and trying to do it politely, saying sorry and asking forgiveness when someone points out I fail ) answer any post I see someone address me with.
So.
It is clear to all the English Language Proficients among us that you are wrong, but let me clarify it for you personally. You are wrong, I neither implied nor meant to imply what you mistakenly thought. So, that is one point of contention cleared up.
Maur wrote:Of course, you did not exactly say that this crime is commonplace nowadays, .
This is actually the direct opposite of the facts. I did, my friend. I did exactly say that this crime is commonplace nowadays. That is exactly what I did say, and that word commonplace that you have now mistaken the use of twice, is the word that sparked off your misunderstanding. Another point cleared up.
Now, as a friend, I will point something friendly out to you, just as I would expect you to do for me if the situation was reversed. You can not give English Language lessons to me, you have told me, superfluously, that English is your second language. I mean, good on you, and you really do a creditable job of using it . . . have I corrected any of your usage hitherto?. Do you think that is because you make no mistakes, or is it because I am respectful and polite and encouraging?*.

I am old, and was taught my English at the breast, and then studied it in a world where Ball-point pens were extremely modern wonders. No computers. One dictionary in the whole class room, that we were encouraged to use, but punished to need :P . Physical punishment for mistakes in spelling. I have polished my skill over half a century reading widely of the English Languages' Masters. I have memorised more English Poetry than you have ever read, my friend, and you, personally, have nothing to teach me. And a tiny bit of a cheek to say first it is not your mother tongue then to try, imho.
Live long, and Prosper.

* Hint, it is the second clause.
Grim Levity wrote:
If his first instinct, then, was to do a little 'touchdown' dance or talk about how awesome it was and only apologize when he realized Kin still looked shaken, I think I could let this go and see your point without any significant retort. However, this was about her feelings and them coming first even though what he did could easily be argued to be objectively right. However, this showed a seriously large leap in his character development despite the little dopey Minmax moments that followed.

.
. . . That is true, isn't it. . . .Oh. Bother.

:? :| :shock:

I think you just converted me to your view point with a finely reasoned argument. I really hate it when that happens. Now, where is the "pours out tears in a fountain" smiley?. Cause MinMax was almost there, he had almost graduated to deserving her without reservation and then his kinda hangover bad habits tripped him up, but he had almost grown out of them . . . and the berttdee party, that was the behavioural equivalent of pulling yourself out of a quagmire by your bootstraps, wasn't it, would have been good behaviour even from a normal man. . . that seems pretty damned unfair now.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by Grim Levity » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:53 pm

AntMac wrote:
Grim Levity wrote:
If his first instinct, then, was to do a little 'touchdown' dance or talk about how awesome it was and only apologize when he realized Kin still looked shaken, I think I could let this go and see your point without any significant retort. However, this was about her feelings and them coming first even though what he did could easily be argued to be objectively right. However, this showed a seriously large leap in his character development despite the little dopey Minmax moments that followed.

.
. . . That is true, isn't it. . . .Oh. Bother.

:? :| :shock:

I think you just converted me to your view point with a finely reasoned argument. I really hate it when that happens. Now, where is the "pours out tears in a fountain" smiley?. Cause MinMax was almost there, he had almost graduated to deserving her without reservation and then his kinda hangover bad habits tripped him up, but he had almost grown out of them . . . and the berttdee party, that was the behavioural equivalent of pulling yourself out of a quagmire by your bootstraps, wasn't it, would have been good behaviour even from a normal man. . . that seems pretty damned unfair now.
I'll take that as a genuine compliment.

Unfortunately, it's cold comfort at this point. The situation with Minmax and Kin feels almost like a foundation's been laid and then suddenly the builders decide to put the walls up in the mud thirty yards away. He laid out amazing characterization that looked like it might have an emotional pay-off of one sort or another but this has largely disconnected me from the greater story because it suddenly leaped into a whole other story with characters I can't recognize.

I agree that Chief's death was wrenching... and terribly unfair. However, unfairness of that sort CAN lead to a better pay-off in the future if played right. K'sellis' demise was a pay-off because he got revenge against the maddening horror and rescued an ally despite all the friction leading up to it. Much as I wanted him to survive and somehow be restored, the resolution of his situation and Grem's escape gave a measure of satisfaction as far as being a reader. Minmax and Forgath defeating Dellyn so completely and creatively and Kin getting to perform the coup de grace was very satisfying despite the knowledge of the horrors Kin faced. That could be counted as satisfying to a reader.

This part just became so disjointed with what we've been shown that it robs us of the anticipation of any kind of pay-off as a reader unless we like tragedy for tragedy's sake... and that's certainly not me.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by AntMac » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:35 am

willpell wrote: To me, a sense of entitlement is synonymous with self-respect, and a society which discourages people from developing it is an oppressive, conformist dystopia.
willpell, me old China !. It is I, AntMac here, surrounding a pool, not a large pool, but definitely pool-LIKE, of Rum. Didn'cha know you ought not talk to people when they is drinking?.
:lol:

There is a difference between a sense of entitlement and [quoteme]the feeling (mostly the young) people have that individual wishes are sacred, "I want to do this so I ought to be allowed to", this overwhelming sense of entitlement the modern would is drowning* in,[/quoteme], but then you knew that.

And your idea of what a society needs to be classed as an oppressive, conformist dystopia, strikes me as a smidge of hyperbole. Dystopia means something other than "Oi, you with the attitude that you are too good for rules or regulation . . . pull your head in and grow up, will you?".

Stranglely the best Rum comes from the DUTCH West Indies. Who'da thought.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by Maur » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:46 am

Wow. You know, Antmac, I am flabbergasted. I honestly cannot tell if... i mean, you are even convincing! I almost believed you when you said that you wrote, exactly, that these crimes are commonplace, only to check back and see your post:
it is a commonplace to read about boyfriends beating their girlfriends half or entirely to death
Or do you honestly think that what is written in newspapers equals reality?

I am genuinely curious what is other members understanding of all this, because, as i said, you sound convincing.


Btw, i know i make fuckton of mistakes. I probably miss majority of prepositions, and mangle every other pronoun. Oh, and i dont read poetry, so i can safely reassure you that indeed, it is very likely you memorized more than i ever read ;)

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by Maur » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:33 am

Willpell, are you familiar with psychohistory? If not, you should find it interesting.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by AntMac » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:16 pm

Maur wrote:
it is a commonplace to read about boyfriends beating their girlfriends half or entirely to death
Or do you honestly think that what is written in newspapers equals reality?

;)
Unless the newspaper is telling lies, or being censored, it equals reality to something similar to every OTHER input your brain uses to construct reality, my friend. Reach out and touch the table , you are receiving fingertip nerve ending reports in your brain. Read the newspaper, you are receiving eye-ball nerve ending reports in your brain. Go watch a girl be beat by her boyfriend?. You are receiving eyeball and ear nerve ending reports in your brain. None of these can be completely trusted of course. ;)
I think, (and I am genuinely being helpful in my intentions now, you are to understand please), this is another instance of the subtleties of the language escaping you.

For it to be a commonplace for us to read in the news, it MUST be a commonplace occurrence. The statements are in essence the same thing. I could not have made the reading in newspaper statement in isolation of the boyfriends beating their girlfriends half or entirely to death occurrences. The one wouldn't exist to comment on without the other.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by Maur » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:36 pm

(Willpell: Or Alice Miller books)
AntMac wrote:
Maur wrote:
it is a commonplace to read about boyfriends beating their girlfriends half or entirely to death
Or do you honestly think that what is written in newspapers equals reality?

;)
Unless the newspaper is telling lies, or being censored, it equals reality to something similar to every OTHER input your brain uses to construct reality, my friend. Reach out and touch the table , you are receiving fingertip nerve ending reports in your brain. Read the newspaper, you are receiving eye-ball nerve ending reports in your brain. Go watch a girl be beat by her boyfriend?. You are receiving eyeball and ear nerve ending reports in your brain. None of these can be completely trusted of course. ;)
I think, (and I am genuinely being helpful in my intentions now, you are to understand please), this is another instance of the subtleties of the language escaping you.

For it to be a commonplace for us to read in the news, it MUST be a commonplace occurrence. The statements are in essence the same thing. I could not have made the reading in newspaper statement in isolation of the boyfriends beating their girlfriends half or entirely to death occurrences. The one wouldn't exist to comment on without the other.
Yes, of course, it is all illusion made by a malicious demon, not real world ;)

It looks like you understood something different from what i intended to mean of my post, i used reality with a meaning of >accurately portraying the lives of humans<, if that was wrong use of English language, i will have defer to your superior knowledge.

Nevertheless, you are wrong. Something that is often reported in the news does not need to be common phenomen in reality. In fact, reports of events appearing in newspapers daily could be in actuality extraordinary occurences, and vice versa.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by Simon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:00 pm

AntMac wrote:
Maur wrote:
it is a commonplace to read about boyfriends beating their girlfriends half or entirely to death
Or do you honestly think that what is written in newspapers equals reality?

;)
Unless the newspaper is telling lies, or being censored, it equals reality to something similar to every OTHER input your brain uses to construct reality, my friend. Reach out and touch the table , you are receiving fingertip nerve ending reports in your brain. Read the newspaper, you are receiving eye-ball nerve ending reports in your brain. Go watch a girl be beat by her boyfriend?. You are receiving eyeball and ear nerve ending reports in your brain. None of these can be completely trusted of course. ;)
I think, (and I am genuinely being helpful in my intentions now, you are to understand please), this is another instance of the subtleties of the language escaping you.

For it to be a commonplace for us to read in the news, it MUST be a commonplace occurrence. The statements are in essence the same thing. I could not have made the reading in newspaper statement in isolation of the boyfriends beating their girlfriends half or entirely to death occurrences. The one wouldn't exist to comment on without the other.
Just to point out, certain parts of the media couldn't care less about factual content or about importance or anything of the like. They care mainly about selling newspapers, getting people to watch their news programs etc. Just because something is reported a lot in the paper does not mean it's happening as often relative to things not reported as often. If people really wanted to read about interesting vegetable formations then, amazingly, you'd have a variety of funny-looking carrots making front-page news.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by AntMac » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:08 am

Simon wrote:Just because something is reported a lot in the paper does not mean it's happening as often relative to things not reported as often. If people really wanted to read about interesting vegetable formations then, amazingly, you'd have a variety of funny-looking carrots making front-page news.

Yeah, that falls under my comment "Telling lies or being censored" because lies of omission are still lies and so the one, and picking and choosing what you report or do not report, are the other. No one said the Paper reports all the events of the day.

I DID say we find in the newspapers, stories of men beating or killing their women as a Commonplace. We do. Do I need to lead you by the hand to examples?. Surely not, it would smack of me thinking you are too stupid to read the paper, and I don't. And I guess I don't need to ask you to refresh your memory also, as to the meaning of commonplace.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by Impaler » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:34 am

I've read this comic for a long time and finally decided to have a look at the forums to see the reaction to this pivotal (admittedly contrived but still dramatic and well done) plot development. I'm fairly convinced that's some kind of happy ending is in the works but it will take a VERY long arc to get their.

But what get me to register and make a post was this back and forth between AntMac and Maur.

Never in all my days of internet browsing have I seen someone blow so much smoke up someones ass as AntMac is doing now. Maur you have not made ANY incorrect interpretations here, AntMac was clearly making a rant about modern values causing domestic abuse, no other interpretation is even possible. He is just trying to weasel out of that now when you pointed out the stone cold fact that such crime is declining. Don't be swayed by his smooth talking (he sounds like a lawyer to me), his command of the English language is no better then yours and even if it were it's immaterial because your both clearly fluent enough to communicate effectively. His attempt to lord his status as a native English speaker over you is something I find exceedingly repugnant, people like that give the rest of us natives a bad name.

AntMac you should be ashamed of yourself.

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by LAYF » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:02 am

[mod="LooksAtYouFunny"]Okay all. This thread have gone far enough off topic!
Please stop talking about modern society in a controversial direction that has nothing to do with the current comic!
any such discussions can go one in the Controversy part of the forum!

What modern media reflects or do not reflect is not on topic, stop discussing it here![/mod]
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by AntMac » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:37 am

[quote="Impaler"]He is just trying to weasel out of that now[quote]

That is not the truth. Nor polite. Also, your main accusation about what I was saying wasn't true either.

However, in the interests of the community, if you like to apologise for your rudeness and admit your mistake, you will find me the soul of conciliation.

<---- Plumber, no Lawyer. ;)

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Re: 28th October, 2013 - Human!

Post by Maur » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:59 am

Ok, the conversation is finished.
Impaler wrote:I've read this comic for a long time and finally decided to have a look at the forums to see the reaction to this pivotal (admittedly contrived but still dramatic and well done) plot development. I'm fairly convinced that's some kind of happy ending is in the works but it will take a VERY long arc to get their.

But what get me to register and make a post was this back and forth between AntMac and Maur.

Never in all my days of internet browsing have I seen someone blow so much smoke up someones ass as AntMac is doing now. Maur you have not made ANY incorrect interpretations here, AntMac was clearly making a rant about modern values causing domestic abuse, no other interpretation is even possible. He is just trying to weasel out of that now when you pointed out the stone cold fact that such crime is declining. Don't be swayed by his smooth talking (he sounds like a lawyer to me), his command of the English language is no better then yours and even if it were it's immaterial because your both clearly fluent enough to communicate effectively. His attempt to lord his status as a native English speaker over you is something I find exceedingly repugnant, people like that give the rest of us natives a bad name.

AntMac you should be ashamed of yourself.
Thanks. I was beginning to doubt my judgement.

Also,
Simon wrote:(...)about interesting vegetable formations (...)
Aliens!

Sorry, felt obliged by my avatar o:)

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