Cavemen: OOC

[GathersIngredients]

Gathers, i don't mean to be rude or lacking of information to give you. But currently and until we GMs discuss it, currently what you passed on the way here doesn't matter.

Mostly because we didn't want to come up with that much and secondly because it doesn't matter.

Thanks, we still like your questions.

As for Yarl and Yala living together....brother sister, nahh, they would never, unless forced.

I don't think it's rude if you don't want to disclose that information (now or ever). It is entirely possible, that the tribe was too preoccupied with their save flight and getting away from their pursuers, and didn't pay too much attention to where they passed through.

A quick counting of the caves indicates everyone needs a roomie. ( we were 20 right?)

Well, I figured that since the map 'was not to scale or anything' there might be actually more caves there, than are visual to us. That's why I didn't want to assume either way.




Another thing that has come up in my mind. Technically all our tribe members ought to know each other to some extent, right? I mean they possibly grew up together, living in close quarters to each other (like they will to some extend in this cave system) and probably have been in sticky situations together more than once. Still we act like we only just met each other rather recently (which is totally understandable, because the players don't know the chars of the other players).
And even if the tribe was big enough (not trying to say it WAS) before the attack of the hostile other tribe, that we only 'greeted one another on the street' occasionally and otherwise stuck to people that now are dead, some preliminary getting to know each other on the flight could very well have happened.
Should we do something about it? And/or are we allowed to say that there has been a friendship since diaper days between X and Y (if both players of X and Y are okay with that)? How about parent/child relation ships? Both Fengo and Gareth are old enough to maybe have fathered some of the younger players. Or maybe, if we were all victims of total family wipe out, some orphaned PC can take to one of them, adopting them as new father figure? I know technically we are all considered 'adults', but I can see Min taking an interest in the shaman ways, and/or wanting to get some advice from people with more life experience once in a while. Any interest in that?

I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should do, or derail the flow of the game or what have you, I just wanted to share my thoughts, and bring up some suggestions of what could be done.

[nikohl]

I think it's safe to say you all know each other quite well - the tribe was probably 50-60 adults before the attack, so while you wouldn't necessarily have been best-friends with everyone present, you definitely knew each other's names and role within the tribe, and can probably name each other's parents and what they did, or some feat or trouble the family overcame. Basically, if it's in the First Post or in the Recruitment thread sign-ups backstory info, you can assume your character has at least basic knowledge of it (unless of course it's "inner thoughts/desires" or personal stuff, and in the case of Gareth, anything that happened in his time away from the tribe)

You can claim any previous friendship/hatred that you like, as long as all PC parties agree. You can forge new friendships going forwards through roleplay of course, but if you want to start with some particular history between your characters, talk it out amongst yourselves and then notify everybody. I can't see a situation that we as GMs would disallow. The only thing is if you claim to have an NPC spouse or child that is still alive and therefore is one of the 7 NPC adults/5 NPC children - that would definitely need to be run by Badge and me before anything became official, because it might be awkward for us plot-wise going forward.

If you want to generate family trees (eg saying that Min and Ril are half-sisters, or Boe and Durang's parents were brother and sister, or whatever) that is also OK, tell us and we'll get it put in the first post as "canon"

[Theis2]

Hmm I think it might be fitting to mention that waiting for Ril (Beandip) to take an action should go ahead and abandon that thought for a while. I'm pretty sure she will be on npc mode and enjoy the water for a while. I'm mostly mentioning this for any that doesn't read the random chatter thread and awaits her reaction or considered interacting with her.

[BadgeAddict]

I would think that if Ril would accept the role of an NPC, to be allowed to share actions with certain persons that she has given permissions to (like gathers) that that would be acceptable.

[nikohl]

Yeah, there's never a penalty for not posting super often anyway (you're just assumed to be not doing much of interest, when update time rolls around) but Badge and I are both aware of Bean's news so we will let Ril be having a nice swim or something til Bean is able to return, unless we hear otherwise re: her intended actions.

[BadgeAddict]

I suppose if needed a wild animal could eat her.... but i hope not.

No worries, this won't happen on my watch., we'll make her an NPC as needed.

[Theis2]

I just wanted to make sure others knew too
If I remember correctly Jacon and Gathers wanted to do something with Ril and I don't know if they read the random chatter since I can't remember they post in it.
But good to hear you know what to do with the situation of spontanous player absence

[GathersIngredients]

Thanks for the info, Theis. By now I have read about the bad news. =(

I didn't actually wait for anything from Bean/Ril, I just mused that she might want to become Min's roomie (because of the closeness to the tunnel that leads to the river/pond/waterfall).
I can have Min ask Yala, instead. Or someone else completely.
Or - if that is ok for the GMs and everyone else, have Ril move in with Min without Bean's consent (I mean Ril will have to sleep somewhere, anyways), and maybe, when Bean comes back and is displeased about this situations, re-arrange the sleeping accomodations to her liking.

I would think that if Ril would accept the role of an NPC, to be allowed to share actions with certain persons that she has given permissions to (like gathers) that that would be acceptable.

Also, I'd like to point out, that Bean didn't give me any kind of permission. At least not that -I- am aware of.

[Nerre]

I'm pretty sure the name "Clan of the Cave Bear" is copyrighted.

It's a movie.

Now I have to read the random chatter, hope nothing serious happened to BeanDip.

[Theis2]

Just a tip, when you see people talking OOC stuff in the game thread and ask you, then just copy the message into the OOC thread and respond there. It have worked so far when I've done it in my game
Right till the point they start a new OOC talk.

Does traveling cost a point? and do you just take away the points people should have used when awarding them, or tell them right away?

[CroverusRaven]

Fair enough.

Also, can I get a response to the point I spent on the fruit. I spent them to find them but I need a description from our GMs to learn more about them.

[LAYF]

Just wanted to say.. Really nice story everybody keep it up

[Nerre]

@Croverus Raven:

Two ideas:

A) I suggested using common placeholder some time ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doe
How about that? You would have a name to use without actually naming the char. You could even just call IT Doe, which would be non-gender-specifically. For the sake of roleplaying, which seems to be the core element of this game to me, I can understands that he wants to adress him with more than "you". But we do not need a proper name to roleplay the person having one.

B) We also could just use their number as their name. "Hey One, can you bring Two the prey we cought so he can cook it? I got to check the other traps." Would also work fine on me. Just think about the Numbers-used-as-names as name variables instead of using impersonal "tribemember 1-7".

I prefer idea B), cause then we could remember that it was a specific NPC who did something for later refference, instead everybody having the same name variable as it would be in A). That way it would even be possible that a NPC is with two people at the same time.

Could the GMs work with that?

[CroverusRaven]

I like Nerre's suggestion.

[nikohl]

We've left it abstract so that we don't have to track where the NPCs are at all times and what they do and/or have done. So calling them One and Two is no better than calling them Bill and Ben.

Point spending allows you to succeed at your action, ie find whatever you were looking for. So in the case of your fruit, it's the fruit you went looking for. Apples or whatever. If you'd prefer a GM decide though, I can do that, just let me know. But the points to find things give you the prerogative to describe what you found

[BadgeAddict]

I don't know if you've ever heard the term "Beating a dead horse", but this horse is beyond pulverized now.

The thing is, we want everyone to be able to enjoy cavemen including possibly some new players that happen to come along. Although it is possible to name/create another pair of NPCs (perhaps an older couple who can be drawn upon for knowledge and advice) (2 people), there will not be a large naming convention of everyone.

So, the solution is either:
1. We take away the ability to use NPCs from everyone except for us.

or

2. You learn to creatively write around what we have set up as the rules.

A few examples:
1. As yarl crouched in near the large tree that towered above him, he waved to the other villager who held a sling....
2. A wonderful smell caught his attention, and as he entered the cave he could see that three of the women folk were stirring a stew, yumm!
3. The wild animals had come to close to the village, it was time for action, Elto rounded up all of the villagers in order to finally deal with them.

My point here is simple, with some finesse, it is possible to roleplay without using names, you just have to have a creative approach.

My final point is, currently we only have the two of you complaining about this and i find it to be a trifle of a thing, if we have a majority of players with an issue with the use of NPCs we will handle it at that time.

[GathersIngredients]

Personally, I don't have an issue with the other tribe members being 'Schroedinger people'. In fact, I think it leaves us with a lot more freedom. Whatever you want, whatever you need, they can be. And then they can be whatever someone else needs. And then, if more players want to join, they can be whatever the new player needs/wants them to be.
It's really the easiest solution for everyone.
And for your RP, you can just visualize them as what you want them to be, for how ever long you need them. I don't see the problem.
If you want someone to bond with (and the PC don't meet your fancy), I'm sure that something can be arranged. Just PM the GMs and try to negotiate something.


Anyways. Got another question: I wrote up with Min that she would be gathering leaves and/or grass to weave into mats and use that to cover the bigger chunks of bear meat, and bury the whole shebang, then instruct people to build the fire on top of that, etc..

Now Theis has written something from back when she asked Boe to maybe go and find some sticks for her. If I wanted her to react to that, and do something back then, would that be ok? Should I edit my older post and put the part about grass gathering and all that in my new post, after what else she would be doing/talking with Boe, to make it easier to read, chronologically? Or should I just forgo this, because 'technically' it's in Min's past and jumping around too much would be too confusing?
It's no big deal, either way.

► Show Spoiler

Since Min would be going out to the plains to gather grass, she would have suggested that she and Boe could go a part of the way together, and maybe they could have talked a bit more. Just in case it matters for your decision.

[Nerre]

And for your RP, you can just visualize them as what you want them to be, for how ever long you need them. I don't see the problem.

Thinking about how you see them - ok. Describing it in your post - no ok. Not sure if you ment "visualize" in a reflexive way.
Describing how they look is the same to me like naming them. It gives them a given form, and it will be harder to you or others to see them as something else. Also, what happens when 7 of 7 have received a description by somebody, but then the NPC is used for something else or becomes a player? This would feel like one NPC just died for that player, cause the NPC with said description would not longer exist, or some NPCs would have more than one describtion.

If we keep them nameless, we also should keep them formless. Imagine them as blurry, nameless dots helping you out. I thin that makes it easier.

If you would allow them to be described by everybody, this would be the same as temporarily naming them, while you are the one they are helping currently. Listing their tools and cargo is ok, but appearance is to me on the same level as a name.

Maybe we should just use them as wildcards and not discuss it any more, as Badge declared that topic dead.

[nikohl]

Crikey. Are we still talking about this?

They ARE formless, they HAVE to be formless. They don't even have fixed genders.

(Oh and if you need to refer to them 'by name' in a sentence, I'm okay with "Doe" being the standard name for all of them. I would've gone with "Hey, [Villager]! Can you pass me that?" or "[Villager], would you like more bear meat?" but if Doe feels more natural to you guys and everyone agrees - and most importantly, that Theis doesn't mind everyone being called something only one letter away from his character name, that's okay.)

[Theis2]

I should survive even though they look so alike
Gathers also have a question you left unanswered

[nikohl]

Oh yes, sorry Gathers - I missed that. It is OK to retroactively respond if it's not a very long time passed and you're already involved - since you have to sort of "move ahead" in your own posts somewhat to avoid posting one-liners and then waiting for other people to react, you kind of have to be able to go back and tie up loose ends like that.

What's not OK is going back and inserting your character into a situation they were miles away from or a long time away from, obviously - but for the sake of conversations, interactions where both characters are doing something together etc...you will end up occasionally having to "post backwards" or change things. So either way you suggested is alright. If you want to edit your old post, that's OK, but it might end up being missed by other players who aren't reading back that far - so maybe in your next new post, put a little flag that you edited your previous one, so that people can go back and check it and be up to date

[GathersIngredients]

I'm sorry that I seem to have spoken out of place. Since I had a question, and Badge stated that merely 2 players had an issue with this currently, I wanted to offer another (positive) perspective which I have on this, while I was there, anyways. Maybe help the people view this as an opportunity, rather than something annoying.

Still, I apologize, I didn't mean to get on anyone's nerves.

@Theis,

► Show Spoiler

what question are you talking about?
[Edit: just saw that you PMed me. I'm assuming that you were talking about that. ^^ ]

[nikohl]

I didn't think you'd spoken out of place :O Sorry! It looked to me like you were basically agreeing that the GM decision wasn't too bad? I was responding to Nerre re: the characters having to be formless with my first post, I didn't mean that to be directed to you. Apologies if I upset you, I didn't mean to. I have been a bit shouty today to everybody (RL as well) so I might have come across angrier than I meant to :s

Theis then pointed out that I hadn't replied to your question about going back and editing in conversations/changes, that's what I thought he meant anyway?

[Nerre]

I will be not here SA-SO-MO german time, please spread the word in case I missed a game. I will go explore lost places in germany and climb with a friend.

Sorry, I hope this will not mess up the scene I got with Fengo and Gereths. In case of an emergency you can let my char say some smalltalk. He is kind of shy about women and has much respect towards elder people, but he is also a clown until things get serious.

[GathersIngredients]

► Show Spoiler

I didn't think you'd spoken out of place :O Sorry! It looked to me like you were basically agreeing that the GM decision wasn't too bad? I was responding to Nerre re: the characters having to be formless with my first post, I didn't mean that to be directed to you. Apologies if I upset you, I didn't mean to. I have been a bit shouty today to everybody (RL as well) so I might have come across angrier than I meant to :s

Theis then pointed out that I hadn't replied to your question about going back and editing in conversations/changes, that's what I thought he meant anyway?

No worries, nikohl, I am not upset. I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't intend to annoy anyone with my post, and apologize IF that had been the case. If I didn't then everything is peachy.

Also, I hope you will have a nice remainder of the day, so that you won't feel as shouty at the end of it.

And, as always, thank you for answering my question.

As for the post editing: I decided to leave the part that happens later in the earlier post, but spoiler it. Also, I copied it into the new post, where it chronologically should be. I hope this helps.