10 October, 2013: Cammer

[bcas77]

http://www.goblinscomic.org/10102013/

Looks like Forgath picked himself a pretty sick weapon! D&Ders, is that a hammer or a mace?

[Earthen]

I could not answer, myself. I'm amazed that they're not discussing how they intend to leave that place, unless they've already had that conversation off-panel.

[Dendr]

Minmax wants to earn XP for roleplaying again?

[Borys]

From black and white art and those narration at the beginning I thought it's another even more alternate reality or flashback or something.

[WhispersToSquirrels]

I dunno, Forgath. That thing looks pretty heavy.

[Borys]

He's a dwarf, he likes heavy weapons... not being racist or anything.

[willpell]

I want that kusarigama on the back wall. Maybe Baka's player will end up taking it.

Is "cammer" a word in Canadian or something? I don't get the joke unless it's as obvious as it appears ("mace case = hammer cammer", which is dumb even for Minmax).

[ChuckNorris]

He's a dwarf, he likesis a heavy weapons... not being racist or anything.

Fixed that for you

[WhispersToSquirrels]

He's a dwarf, he likes heavy weapons... not being racist or anything.

Yeah, but not only does it look heavy, it looks like it's too big to fit in a backpack.

[Borys]

Oh no! He won't be able to make anymore ridiculous scenes with searching for weapons in a backpack during fight!
No more "This thing is heavy" jokes!

[Master TMO]

Pretty sure it's just mace case -> hammer cammer.

And I'd have to say the weapon is a hammer. A mace is typically (in my limited experience) drawn as a haft with a blunt end where the hitting surface is pretty much the same 360 degrees. A sphere, cylinder, cube, doesn't really matter what shape it is. It doesn't have a direction it must be swing to hit the target straight on. Whereas a hammer has a definite arc of travel, with 1 (or 2) hitting surfaces that concentrate the striking force onto a smaller surface area. Hitting your target with the hammer at an angle or sideways makes the blow much weaker or impossible. Not so with a mace.

And that glove looks like it has a definite striking surface on one end.

Ergo- hammer.

[Brings Cupcakes]

Oh no! He won't be able to make anymore ridiculous scenes with searching for weapons in a backpack during fight!
No more "This thing is heavy" jokes!

As it happens, Minmax doesn't carry a backpack ÔÇö and never has.

[Loyal Backstabber]

For once, I think Minmax is right. Sure it's somewhat round, but a mace has a head that reaches equally in each direction.

Also, the first few panels are hilarious in my opinion. It's good to see that he's using his boredom to write apocalyptic logs instead of simply using it to walk on non-apocalyptic logs.

[stevedj]

Who needs color, or shading? I love it just the way it is!

Btw - perhaps those last few frames were drawn while on a shaky/vibrating plane...???

P.S. I'm torn - should the 3rd frame speech bubble be rounded, not squarish (since he is now speaking on frame)?

[Krulle]

For the "cammer" joke, MinMax would have to be able to spell, and for that he would need to be able to read...
And we know he can't.

scrap that. my fault. Please ignore this post.

But I'm still waiting for the story to leave the MoM behind.
So I can feel with Minmax. Very much so.

[Crimson]

Pretty sure it's just mace case -> hammer cammer.

And I'd have to say the weapon is a hammer. A mace is typically (in my limited experience) drawn as a haft with a blunt end where the hitting surface is pretty much the same 360 degrees. A sphere, cylinder, cube, doesn't really matter what shape it is. It doesn't have a direction it must be swing to hit the target straight on. Whereas a hammer has a definite arc of travel, with 1 (or 2) hitting surfaces that concentrate the striking force onto a smaller surface area. Hitting your target with the hammer at an angle or sideways makes the blow much weaker or impossible. Not so with a mace.

And that glove looks like it has a definite striking surface on one end.

Ergo- hammer.

Not sure I agree with that definition, (although I will also point out my experience is probably just as limited) while it is true that typically maces has spherical and blunt and essentially a weighted tip to a club, it is not a requirement. Many maces such as earthernware maces are not spherical at all, as well as flanged, morning star and stone maces also typically not spherical.
Although the angles at which you can successfully hit are still greater than a hammer, I don't think this in itself plays directly into the definition.

The difference as I see it between a hammer and a mace is that a hammer, (much like medieval warhammers) must be capable of peircing (direct, chosen) damage in addition to the capability of bludgeoning damage (direct, chosen). This definition becomes flimsy however, when you get to bigger hammers, as such that they become mallets/mauls which are not restricted to requiring piercing capabilities nor are they maces.

In the end I would agree with Forthgath that it is in fact a mace, teetering on the edge of becoming a maul depending on how big it actually is. Which is hard to determine given we haven't seen the full length and that Forgath is of.. limited stature =P

[BanditoWalrus]

I don't know why Minmax always tries to outstubborn a dwarf...

Oh, and it's CLEARLY a Greatclub.

SRD Maces and Hammers are One-Handed. This looks two handed. Plus claiming it is a Greatclub lets me be contrarian. So it is a Greatclub.

[LooksAndSmiles]

Btw - perhaps those last few frames were drawn while on a shaky/vibrating plane...???

What you see there is an earlier step in the process of creating the page. Thunt first draws moreless bubbles for heads and body, then fills in the details (last line of panels: "penciling"). Once he is satisfied he cleans up, leaving the important lines and plays with the thickness ("inking"), so we end up with a clean looking black and white panel (like any other on the page).

I hope I didn't mess up the terms much.

[Zwums]

I just want to reiterate that Thunt makes the coolest DnD items. I would love a book of all of the items he has invented to fill a campaign with.

[Godbot]

I just want to reiterate that Thunt makes the coolest DnD items. I would love a book of all of the items he has invented to fill a campaign with.

Oh, definitely.

By the way, what's that thing on Forgath's head? It looks like some sort of urn with missing bits and a tusk. I dunno, maybe it'll be clearer once the page gets colored in.

Edit: Here's a screenshot of it.


Weird, huh?

[nikohl]

By the way, what's that thing on Forgath's head? It looks like some sort of urn with missing bits and a tusk. I dunno, maybe it'll be clearer once the page gets colored in.

'Tis a helm!



No, seriously, that's his helmet. In the last panel, it's the top of his helmet, because he's facepalming.

[Master TMO]

Not sure I agree with that definition, (although I will also point out my experience is probably just as limited) while it is true that typically maces has spherical and blunt and essentially a weighted tip to a club, it is not a requirement. Many maces such as earthernware maces are not spherical at all, as well as flanged, morning star and stone maces also typically not spherical.
Although the angles at which you can successfully hit are still greater than a hammer, I don't think this in itself plays directly into the definition.

The difference as I see it between a hammer and a mace is that a hammer, (much like medieval warhammers) must be capable of peircing (direct, chosen) damage in addition to the capability of bludgeoning damage (direct, chosen). This definition becomes flimsy however, when you get to bigger hammers, as such that they become mallets/mauls which are not restricted to requiring piercing capabilities nor are they maces.

In the end I would agree with Forthgath that it is in fact a mace, teetering on the edge of becoming a maul depending on how big it actually is. Which is hard to determine given we haven't seen the full length and that Forgath is of.. limited stature =P

That earthenware mace has got to be one of the strangest things I've seen...

Here are some quotes from wikipedia on both weapon types, so we can figure which applies better:

A mace is a blunt weapon, a type of club or virge ÔÇö that uses a heavy head on the end of a handle to deliver powerful blows. A mace typically consists of a strong, heavy, wooden or metal shaft, often reinforced with metal, featuring a head made of stone, copper, bronze, iron, or steel.

The head of a military mace can be shaped with flanges or knobs to allow greater penetration of plate armour. The length of maces can vary considerably. The maces of foot soldiers were usually quite short (two or three feet, or 70 to 90 cm). The maces of cavalrymen were longer and thus better suited for blows delivered from horseback. Two-handed maces could be even larger.

A war hammer is a late medieval weapon of war intended for close combat action, the design of which resembles the hammer. Its appearance is similar to that of an ice axe. The war hammer consists of a handle and a head. The handle may be of different lengths, the longest being roughly equivalent to the halberd, and the shortest about the same as a mace. Long war hammers were pole weapons (polearms) meant for use against riders, whereas short ones were used in closer quarters and from horseback. Later war hammers often had a spike on one side of the head, thus making it a more versatile weapon.

War hammers were developed as a consequence of the ever more prevalent surface-hardened steel surfacing of wrought iron armours of the late medieval battlefields during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. The surface of the armour was now as hard as the edge of a blade, so a blade tended to ricochet. Swords, or the blade of a battleaxe, were likely only to give a glancing blow, losing much of the impact, especially on the high curvature of the helmet. The war hammer could deliver the full force to the target.

War hammers, especially when mounted on a pole, could damage without penetrating the armour. In particular, they transmitted the impact through even the thickest helmet and caused concussions. A blade or spike tended to be used against other parts of the body where the armour was thinner, and penetration was easier, than through the helmet. The spike end could be used for grappling the target's armour, reins, or shield, or could be turned in the direction of the blow to pierce even heavy armour. Against mounted opponents, the weapon could also be directed at the legs of the horse, toppling the armoured foe to the ground where he could be more easily attacked.

I had to use Warhammer, as there was no 'Hammer' weapon page. I believe that's pretty much what we're talking about, though. Notice how unspecific the mace description is though. "A stick with a heavy thing on the end." Thanks Wikipedia!!

Based solely on these descriptions, I'd be tempted to say 'Hammer' is a subset of 'Mace', so any Hammer is also a Mace. Woo, that narrows it down nicely! Maybe a hammer is a mace with a hammer-shaped head? Which could be applied to Forgath's new weapon, but it may be I'm just making up arguments now to try and support my original answer.

[Simon]

I think it's interesting that although Minmax can't rhyme (on purpose) he can alliterate (and recognise rhymes?)

[T-RexWithTourettes]

Dammit Thunt, why can't I think of this kind of awesome shit when making up magic items?

And dammit Minmax...just...Goddammit Minmax...

[Kore]

Based solely on these descriptions, I'd be tempted to say 'Hammer' is a subset of 'Mace', so any Hammer is also a Mace. Woo, that narrows it down nicely! Maybe a hammer is a mace with a hammer-shaped head? Which could be applied to Forgath's new weapon, but it may be I'm just making up arguments now to try and support my original answer.

You can google images as well

I think both names fit, but hammer fits better.

Most maces heads tends to be symmetrical like a club, similar blow no matter which way you strike.

Hammer head on other hand is usually meant to strike in one direction.