Kin's Collar

[Jon Snow]

I'm sure this has been talked about before but the search function didn't help very much.

How come they don't stick it down an oblivion hole?

[DuIstalri]

It IS around her neck. If you mean the leash, probably because they don't know about potential side effects.

[SamWiser]

The collar is too close to her neck to be sure that they can get it off without obliviating her face too. Putting the leash in the whole might set off the effect of the collar (who knows, it might, and that would be enough for them). They might be able to use Psimax's machine to get rid of it, but that chance seems to be disappearing.

[Jon Snow]

Isn't the whole point of oblivion being that it never existed. I'm surprised with 4 kins that can't work it out.

[AntMac]

Aha!. Very good point there, Jon Snow.

[LAYF]

Isn't the whole point of oblivion being that it never existed. I'm surprised with 4 kins that can't work it out.

Well.. yes.. but, its not True oblivion, as have been stated.. If it was true oblivion, there would be no way to recreate it with the machine, since there would be nothing to recreate.
instead, these oblivion holes only removes the object from the "surface of reality" such as the visual and physical object and the memory of it.
a good example is MiniMax's boots... Kin and Forgath do not remember MM's boots, but on hte otehr hand, they do not remember him walking without them either, as they had not seen that...

Who know what would happen to the collar if the leach was tempered with?

[Moroser]

Isn't the whole point of oblivion being that it never existed. I'm surprised with 4 kins that can't work it out.

you can't put the collar completely into an oblivion hole, because of it being around Kin's neck. So you'd manage to make only a part of it disappear. It's a magic item, so I'd think of it like of a kind of an electric circuit, which has to be complete to function properly. As we know, the collar has probably a mechanism of triggering a destructive magic effect when tried to be taken off. "Obliviating" a part of it will surely be considered to be such an attempt.

[shikashaker]

http://www.goblinscomic.org/12092011-2/

seems like oblivion holes suck you up, i wouldn't try even erase one part of the leash... <.<

[Moroser]

http://www.goblinscomic.org/12092011-2/

seems like oblivion holes suck you up, i wouldn't try even erase one part of the leash... <.<

It's hard to say if it's really sucking alt-MM inside. The effect is mostly caused by the expansion of the hole.
http://www.goblinscomic.org/02072012/ here you can see some levitating rocks - the holes mess up with the gravity. Anyway, I agree that erasing something placed around your neck is too dangerous.

[ForgetsOldName]

I can see this conversation:

"Hey, why don't we take the collar off? If we all die, the maze just resets, right?"
"Hm, I wonder how many of the 1,112,943 prior runs ended that way?"

This would be a party with a Forgath that could remove curse I guess. It's quite possible that sometimes Forgath leveled up enough to do it.

[Jon Snow]

What if they get a dead kin and try to remove the collar through the hole? What if they took off a dead Kin's collar naturally? The maze resets if one of them dies, if not, they all take it off?

[Moroser]

What if they get a dead kin and try to remove the collar through the hole? What if they took off a dead Kin's collar naturally? The maze resets if one of them dies, if not, they all take it off?

A common design of magic items (ofc not irl))) - they are active when the host is alive, so the experiment won't help much. They will also forget the collar was removed - because it disappeared in an oblivion hole)).

Some of the Kins in MoM do not wear collars, but we don't know if they ever had any. So many Kins in the maze, but we've never seen one trying to get rid of a collar. Or haven't heard (not literally) a major explosion, which is the probable effect. The 3K also don't even mention the collars - with all the power of the psionic machine they use. That's strange.

[warrl]

Well, if they find a dead Kin near an oblivion hole, they could write "Yes, this Kin had a leash and collar, but you stuck the leash in an oblivion hole" on some convenient surface, and THEN stick the leash in an oblivion hole. And see what happens.

Part of properly doing dangerous science is to carefully note your starting conditions and exactly what you plan to do, with said notes stashed a safe distance away, BEFORE actually doing it. That way if you blow yourself up, your successor can learn from your mistake. (Even better, of course, also stash yourself a safe distance away and do the dangerous steps remotely.)

Of course, that procedure wouldn't stop the "shuts down if the subject is dead" risk.

[SamWiser]

One more problem with putting Kin's collar in an o-hole, was pointed out on the old forum by another person. Think of the psychological aspects of doing that. If the collar gets obliviated, then she will forget she ever had a collar on. In her mind, she would have gotten captured, then willingly followed every command given to her by Goblinslayer, and never used any natural abilities to protect herself. It would be as if she had consented to the treatment given to her, when she obviously didn't. She is already in a fragile emotional state, but the shock of that would probably push her over the edge. Sure, they might be able to work out that she had had a collar on, but it is very difficult to remember when a flashback comes on of goblinslayer raping her, and she can't remember doing anything to stop him.

[ForgetsOldName]

At this point though she would have recognized the lack of the collar as a problem, noted the other collars, applied her knowledge of the oblivion holes and figured it out, just as they figured out the beard.

[Iron Sun 254]

I'm thinking the trick to remove the collar is something deceptively simple, like the holder of the lease simply commanding her to "Remove your collar."

[jimenez3rd]

we know the collar can be destroyed with no adverse effects, shown here http://www.goblinscomic.org/06252013/
Two collar kins are splished by psion MM.

[ForgetsOldName]

we know the collar can be destroyed with no adverse effects, shown here http://www.goblinscomic.org/06252013/
Two collar kins are splished by psion MM.

Hmm.

One of the Kin appears to not be wearing a collar.
One of them has something around her neck which could be a collar, but she does not have a leash around her arm.
It's not 100% clear that either of them is squished.
All of the splish shown in the frames can be matched to Forgath, Minmax, and a bright green arrow.
There is no indication of what happened to the one visible likely collar, or its Kin for that matter.

[Moroser]

Probably a high level psion can destroy magic items - dunno. I'm pretty sure Psimax studied the collars for his "Oblivion project" and knows how they work and how to destroy them properly.

[Loyal Backstabber]

I think the oblivion hole theory is pretty sound, personally.

Isn't the whole point of oblivion being that it never existed. I'm surprised with 4 kins that can't work it out.

you can't put the collar completely into an oblivion hole, because of it being around Kin's neck. So you'd manage to make only a part of it disappear. It's a magic item, so I'd think of it like of a kind of an electric circuit, which has to be complete to function properly. As we know, the collar has probably a mechanism of triggering a destructive magic effect when tried to be taken off. "Obliviating" a part of it will surely be considered to be such an attempt.

Sure you can. Put part of it in, then twist it around until there's a hole large enough for her to pull her neck out of it. It's loose enough for that to work.

[Insane Kitty]

there is also the adverse effect of her not knowing how goblin slayer was able to control her. which could lead to her not trusting any humans.

[rwstyles]

I'm sure this has been talked about before but the search function didn't help very much.

How come they don't stick it down an oblivion hole?

I'm not sure about the leash part, which could likely be cut with a knife, but putting the collar itself in an oblivion hole could destroy kin.
If they had no way of controlling her, why didn't she try to escape? Why did she accept the abuse?

It's possible that her intelligence would prevent that of course, but why take the risk.

There is also the bit about the very large explosion. Would there be a delay, or would it happen at once?

[Moroser]

Sure you can. Put part of it in, then twist it around until there's a hole large enough for her to pull her neck out of it. It's loose enough for that to work.

*facepalm* Obliviating only a part of the collar is a great risk.