Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

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Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by stevedj » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:53 am

Just read THunt's blog post this morning, and I am now even more impressed with his talent than before! And I applaud him for going so public about his Mom's story.

I don't have a lot more to say - I think it best just left where THunt left it.

But, I do hope that it is a sign that Kin will live on in the comic for quite some time... :)

ETA: Permalink - if I've done this right: http://www.goblinscomic.org/kins-story-is-kind-of-true/

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Orangebottle » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:09 am

This is awful.

Not the massive blog post, no, that's fine. He shouldn't have to post that. Gods, people, stop harassing him about his story.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by stevedj » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:25 am

Orangebottle wrote:This is awful.

Not the massive blog post, no, that's fine. He shouldn't have to post that. Gods, people, stop harassing him about his story.
You are right, he shouldn't HAVE to. But, if he WANTS to, we should allow him to.

Ok, maybe he didn't want to. But his Mom wanted him to - for a long time - is that enough to count as "HAVE" to? (oh sure, all the other posts and emails and tweets influenced him, too -- but I don't want to dwell on that. Even if nobody else had bothered him, I think it was a brave step to tell the story of his Mom - first in the comic, now in the blog).

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Orangebottle » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:54 am

I'm not saying that he shouldn't post it if he didn't want to, it just didn't sound like he wanted to.

I'm not trying to say anything negative about Thunt, or his mother, and I apologize if it came off that way. It was brave of him to do this if it was of his own volition.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by nikohl » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:47 am

I think it'd be best if we all just accepted his decision and left him to it. The last thing needed here is more back-and-forth on the matter. I don't think very many of us are qualified to discuss this, and while we can have our opinions on "should he have posted" "shouldn't he have posted" and so on, it's kind of not up to us :/

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Ledeas » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:51 am

I always thought Kin's reaction to Minmax was kind of rooted in her trauma. 2 years of torture and abuse, she is given the chance to kill her captive. Then the idiot hero tries to be kind to her ( a long forgotten gift ) and now, he has been beaten, abused, and in a way tortured in her behalf. I am sure some Psych people could name several cases, but to my amature mind it reminds me of the Stockholm Syndrome. I am not saying it is a manipulation or a bad thing, but in some ways, very understandable.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by ForgetsOldName » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:15 am

Oh definitely not Stockholm syndrome although I do see what you mean. It's more of an unhealthy dependency except that every time they should lip lock she jerks away. She would be hovering between the fantasy that Minmax can solve all her problems and the raw evidence that men are horrible monsters. Her brain would be in a state of crisis that responds with extremes to certain signals which is why she fell in love so quickly, panics whenever he gets too close, and can't rationally think or talk about the ups and downs of a mixed snake/fighter-barbarian relationship. It's also a bad thing that Ruby is about to send her signals that will trigger a panic.

All would be pretty normal (well, normal for a case of severe and abnormal trauma) in a case like this except that Minmax really is a hero. DnD heroes don't do stupid things like assume she's okay with selling the car because she didn't (wasn't capable of) yell at you when you brought it up, or get drunk and make a pass at the UPS delivery person because the girlfriend hasn't let you near her for a month. So the story is likely to end happily but the reality is slippery ground for the Hunt family.
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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Daughter Of Yahweh » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:30 pm

I didn't know any of the information that Thunt disclosed. It was all news to me. Now I feel empty inside. Geez...

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by RollsNat20s » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:27 pm

I understand why people might be upset about how quickly Kin is healing emotionally. But another thing to think about is, if the device can repair not just physical damage, but also mental damage i.e. forgotten memories, is it not then also possible that all those emotional scars caused by the horrific event also become healed. Just a thought, I mean this is a fantasy setting, where magic can do things that otherwise cannot happen in a modern real-life setting.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Mithcoriel » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:57 pm

I was especially shocked to hear the 4 rapists are now doctors. Are you saying they never got punished for the act at all, even though you clearly know who they are? :shock:

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by PostsInGoblinForums » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:04 pm

The world is a horrible place ...sometimes. A few minutes watching FOX or CCN should be enough to convince anyone of that. As a casual reader tho ...seriously at this point Thunt should just put up a warning that advises people away that just want to enjoy the Story/Art for what it is. Thunt is an amazing story teller and it's his story. Just let it be.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by RidcullyJack » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:07 pm

PostsInGoblinForums wrote:The world is a horrible place ...sometimes. A few minutes watching FOX or CCN should be enough to convince anyone of that. As a casual reader tho ...seriously at this point Thunt should just put up a warning that advises people away that just want to enjoy the Story/Art for what it is. Thunt is an amazing story teller and it's his story. Just let it be.
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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Matney X » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:13 pm

I'm surprised Thunt didn't mention that the original revelation that Dellyn was raping her was three and a half years ago, so it didn't feel like only a matter of days to him. Also, the email said Kin's been traveling with Forgath and Minmax for only a matter of days -- how long has it been, in Goblins-time?

Not that either of those revelations matter in the context of the email -- the email said that Kin is recovering WAY too fast, because no one ever recovers THAT fast, and Thunt countered with "No, my MOM recovered that fast."

This is a huge issue, and Thunt is both amazing and crazy for taking it on. I honestly wouldn't have been surprised to see a major retcon from just about any other author, but Thunt is no only keeping with his story, he's aggressively defending it. Good on him.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by willpell » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:16 pm

THunt wrote:Her stance was that she felt like those men won if she was left traumatised.
This is exactly what I regard as the definitionally-correct attitude for anyone who couldn't prevent themselves from being victimized in the first place. The world preys on weakness, so the best way to protect yourself is simply to become invincible. And the first step to being impregnable to all harm is to never show any vulnerability. Fake it until you make it, as they say in the world of business. Whatever failings you have, will yourself to have the sheer power to push through them, never admit that you're defeated, and even on the day you die, you'll be immortal. The people who can achieve that are the ones who will go down in history, and I'm not the least surprised to find out that our dear author is the spawn of such superior stock.
RollsNat20s wrote:I understand why people might be upset about how quickly Kin is healing emotionally. But another thing to think about is, if the device can repair not just physical damage, but also mental damage i.e. forgotten memories, is it not then also possible that all those emotional scars caused by the horrific event also become healed. Just a thought, I mean this is a fantasy setting, where magic can do things that otherwise cannot happen in a modern real-life setting.
More to the point, Kin is a superintelligent Monstrous Humanoid with ECL 9 or more. Attacks that could cripple and traumatize a 5-HP human Commoner or Expert might well be unable to so much as force her to roll a Will Save. The mental loops that a mere mortal can get stuck in, where she blames herself and questions future actions? Kin is smart enough to solve them with logic, and probably does so on a subconscious level. Thusly, she can achieve the benefit of weeks in therapy, during mere hours of personal interaction.
Mithcoriel wrote:I was especially shocked to hear the 4 rapists are now doctors. Are you saying they never got punished for the act at all, even though you clearly know who they are? :shock:
There is a reason I do not trust the medical establishment. it forms the perfect smokescreen for people who wish to earn the unconditional trust of people who are already crippled and desperate for whatever aid they can get.
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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by stevedj » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:24 pm

willpell wrote:
THunt wrote:Her stance was that she felt like those men won if she was left traumatised.
This is exactly what I regard as the definitionally-correct attitude for anyone who couldn't prevent themselves from being victimized in the first place. The world preys on weakness, so the best way to protect yourself is simply to become invincible. And the first step to being impregnable to all harm is to never show any vulnerability. Fake it until you make it, as they say in the world of business. Whatever failings you have, will yourself to have the sheer power to push through them, never admit that you're defeated, and even on the day you die, you'll be immortal. The people who can achieve that are the ones who will go down in history, and I'm not the least surprised to find out that our dear author is the spawn of such superior stock.
RollsNat20s wrote:I understand why people might be upset about how quickly Kin is healing emotionally. But another thing to think about is, if the device can repair not just physical damage, but also mental damage i.e. forgotten memories, is it not then also possible that all those emotional scars caused by the horrific event also become healed. Just a thought, I mean this is a fantasy setting, where magic can do things that otherwise cannot happen in a modern real-life setting.
More to the point, Kin is a superintelligent Monstrous Humanoid with ECL 9 or more. Attacks that could cripple and traumatize a 5-HP human Commoner or Expert might well be unable to so much as force her to roll a Will Save. The mental loops that a mere mortal can get stuck in, where she blames herself and questions future actions? Kin is smart enough to solve them with logic, and probably does so on a subconscious level. Thusly, she can achieve the benefit of weeks in therapy, during mere hours of personal interaction.
Mithcoriel wrote:I was especially shocked to hear the 4 rapists are now doctors. Are you saying they never got punished for the act at all, even though you clearly know who they are? :shock:
There is a reason I do not trust the medical establishment. it forms the perfect smokescreen for people who wish to earn the unconditional trust of people who are already crippled and desperate for whatever aid they can get.
+1 -- This.

Thank you Willpell -- I started this thread because I knew I wanted to say something, but just didn't have the right words, so left it w/o much on my part. But your post here really does sum up my feelings so very well, far better than I could have tried to say it.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Purple » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:26 pm

RollsNat20s wrote:I understand why people might be upset about how quickly Kin is healing emotionally. But another thing to think about is, if the device can repair not just physical damage, but also mental damage i.e. forgotten memories, is it not then also possible that all those emotional scars caused by the horrific event also become healed. Just a thought, I mean this is a fantasy setting, where magic can do things that otherwise cannot happen in a modern real-life setting.
While I agree that as a magic device in a fantasy setting the possibilities are large, I do not think that Thunt would magically heal Kin's emotional scars, especially after reading the blog post. Doing so could be interpreted as trivializing Kin's situation. Since Thunt wants to respect his mother's story through Kin, I do not think he would give Kin the easy way out. I think that Kin will have to recover through the power of her own will, a process that would be much more inspiring than a magical remedy.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Moroser » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:45 pm

I'm glad it wasn't an another blog post where Thunt would apologize to some angry reader. Though I'd prefer one if I knew he'll tell us about the terrifying origin of the character.

Kin may have needed only days to overcome her trauma, which is probably a very rear case, but as a long term reader I'm ok with that. We've been waiting for this story arc to be finished for several years. It's a question of perception.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by LAYF » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:47 pm

@THunt twitter wrote: Wow. I woke up this morning to a wave of emails supporting my Mum (re: My blog post)! I'm going to pass them all onto her! She'll squee!
Nice to see people take this the right way :)
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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Not Walter » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:52 pm

This subject also brings up the fact that poeple often anthropomorphize animals and monsters, in this case.
While Kin may seem human, she is very much a monster. I saw that the blog post mentions "humanity", "human" and "person".
Kin is a yuan-ti. Not human. Thunt has done well at explaining some of the things that make her species different from humans.

Anthropomorphize - to attribute human form or personality to things not human.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by SamWiser » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:13 pm

After reading that blog post, that is the closest I've come to understanding the effects of rape on a person. I'm thankful to THunt for posting this, because it helps me to better understand Kin's character, and any rape victims I may come across in the future.
Not Walter wrote:This subject also brings up the fact that poeple often anthropomorphize animals and monsters, in this case.
While Kin may seem human, she is very much a monster. I saw that the blog post mentions "humanity", "human" and "person".
Kin is a yuan-ti. Not human. Thunt has done well at explaining some of the things that make her species different from humans.

Anthropomorphize - to attribute human form or personality to things not human.
I believe that one of the main points of this comic is to do just that. To make people realize that the "monsters" aren't that scary, and are a lot like us.
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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by koske1 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:53 pm

Registered to post:

I will try not to use any jargon, but this post may be disturbing to some.


I'm a training child psychologist, and though I'm fairly new to the field (3 years coming up) and not particularly far out of university (only 5) I've met enough cases to say that there are a huge number of ways to deal with rape, and that different people can deal with it faster or slower than others.

To put things in perspective of my work place we grade abuse as a number 0-5. I consider Kin's rapes to be an extensively prolonged grade 4 sexual act, grade 2 physical act and 5 mental act (I would possibly create a grade 6).
[I would like to point out these codings are used for information only, not for assessing needs; personal needs are worked out through therapy and observation]

Sexual 4 tends (but is not exclusively) to be for sexual acts with orifices incapable of safe receipt due to age, but Kin's different anatomy lends to this in my opinion. I shy away from 5 which is orifices incapable of receipt due to anatomy because ultimately Kin's vagina is a vagina, and mentally this is easier to cope with than say eye socket (sadly an example I'm aware of).

Physical 2 because I see no significant scaring, while other healing effects have been shown to leave scars. She also has full bodily ability as far as I can tell, she is able to walk (slither?) and communicate without issue, and has full limb mobility. Further she retains her breasts, which are often cut off in the earliest stages of higher grade abuse (in sexual circumstances). She has however been beaten beyond her life which would normally be a grade 5 so it's a lot harder to narrow down.

Both of these are extreme. But the rape I have seen lessened by a strong will, logical mind and correct support in around 4 months. At this such stage physical contact with the opposite sex was possible without fear and she was beginning to develop feelings for another young lad in our care. Obviously in children this is more complicated due to discovering sexuality, and psychological help in attempts to lessen and control the paedosexual tendencies that tend to follow young rape incidents. Note that sex itself is not an issue I've dealt with, or any sexual contact such as kissing, so my understanding there is under-developed.

Given that Kin is beyond human intelligence and wisdom, and that the life and death circumstances post trauma are an unknown quantity to me I believe it possible (if a stretch) for her to be well equipped to deal with physical contact by this point in her recovery; I feel the kiss may be a bit too far, but this is baseless, and as we have not seen how she would have reacted post lip-lock it could still have caused a serious psychological incident that she was not equipped to deal with.

The physical abuse seems to add more, but given the violent nature of the world she has likely dealt with wounds plenty, and even death, plenty prior to Dellyn. This would give her a greater ability to deal with physical abuse, and could somewhat mitigate the psychological impact of it's inclusion in the rape [this sentence was particularly hard to put into regular english]. Assuming she's dealt with torture and killing of Yuan-Ti before she could have created coping mechanisms and mental barriers helping her deal with Dellyn's physical and sexual onslaughts. Add to this the different mating nature of Yuan-Ti and it's unknown effect on sexual mental health, it could further support her speedy recovery.



Sadly where I feel Kin's story falls apart is the mental aspect. I also don't think it's disrespectful, simply incorrect in some ways.

Type 5 mental onslaughts involve complete dehumanization of the target, and result in a feeling of helplessness. The target often believes they'll never be saved while held captive, and believe they are lesser to their 'masters'. 2 years of this sort of onslaught even against a mentally super human Yuan-Ti should have made some sort of significant effect. Add that she was forced against her will to do horrible things, and could not control her actions, and that she literally is a monster; I think the fantasy elements have made for mental abuse far beyond anything any human will have to deal with.

I find it extremely hard to imagine her speaking full sentences to new people let alone acting as she does. Thunt hit it on the head when he said "there is a huge difference between 3 days and KinÔÇÖs 2 years". By 2 years you'd start to believe what you'd been told. By two years you would have gone way beyond hope for rescue. I studied slave testimonies for my university theism, studying African American opinions of themselves, and comparing it to the way they had been treated. The accounts where few and far between, but particularly the women felt they where lesser to the white man after systematic mental physical and sexual abuse. This in a society where black people outnumbered whites. In Brassmoon Kin is the only Yuan-Ti (as far as I could tell). I struggle to even imagine the mental ramifications of the systematic mental abuse she would have received.


Kin is super human, and she's shown fantastic coping mechanisms, I think had it been 8 months I would have accepted it with a shrug on the Yuan-Ti-ness, but the 2 years make for scissors cutting down my disbelief every time I think about it. Rape is a big deal, and I think Thunt is dealing with that as much sensitively as he should in a fantasy setting; there are conveniences taken, but none that I feel belittle the trauma; I however believe the systematic dehumanization has been underplayed... and with obvious reason: we don't have to face it anymore... and I don't think any real person has had to deal with it quite the way Kin has had to.


Do I think Kin would act the way she does? No.
Do I think it's insensitive? No.


I also apologize for any poor English, it's late and I'm tired.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by warrl » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:12 pm

Not Walter wrote:This subject also brings up the fact that poeple often anthropomorphize animals and monsters, in this case.
While Kin may seem human, she is very much a monster. I saw that the blog post mentions "humanity", "human" and "person".
Kin is a yuan-ti. Not human. Thunt has done well at explaining some of the things that make her species different from humans.

Anthropomorphize - to attribute human form or personality to things not human.
But very few anthropomorphized animals are detectably outside the range of personalities of real humans, except as dictated by their body shapes and occasionally their dietary requirements. (Some of the *combinations* are outside human range - we could not have the modern high-tech world if it were casually accepted that members of a certain subset of the modern high-tech population would regard killing and eating a co-worker or customer for lunch as normal.)

Yuan-ti as Thunt has presented them have personalities heavily concentrated in a certain subset of normal human range. But their apparently-normal* range does not extend outside normal human range.

* I say "apparently-normal" because, I believe, all four of the Yuan-ti we have seen much of in-comic have gone through a severely traumatizing and probably significantly abnormal experience for an extended period, and are now adventurers which is an abnormal occupation that separates them from their culture, so their personalities may not be quite normal for their species.
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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Unlucky-for-Some » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:35 pm

This discussion had me thinking back to Brassmoon a bit and it occurs to me that we are not necessarily seeing an unnaturally fast recovery on the part of Kin here. I refer to the "something must change so I will never run away again" conversation that Kin has with Dellyn. A case could be made that she had already started to recover some sense of herself if she had got to the point where she could make that statement to her abuser. In hindsight I am just now getting a feeling for how amazingly powerful Kin was to do that. I'm not sure whether that is a comment on her astonishing intelligence or her essential non-humanity (or both).
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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by Zambee » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:52 pm

I think the reader is thinking of Kin's story in terms of a modern day woman rather than from the perspective of a super intelligent Yuan-ti in a completely different setting. Minmax has literally fought an army for Kin. Kin saw how Minmax reacted to the way she was treated by GS, he's fought and risked his life for her against a Demon, a zombie hoard and various other highly dangerous foes.
Some rape survivors may well find it near on impossible to open up to intimacy so soon after their ordeal, but that doesn't mean everyone is the same.
When my sister got out of her abusive relationship, rape included, she didn't let it affect her relationships with other people to such a degree that it stopped her from developing a romantic relationship. Sure, she didn't go out and get a new boyfriend the very next week, but neither did she blame anyone else for what happened to her.
The human heart works in mysterious ways and I can only assume the Yuan-ti heart(s) are the same.
Just because some readers cannot identify with or understand Kins situation in a context that fits with their own experiences, that doesn't mean they are right to be outraged and condemning of THunt for writing a work of fiction. It's horrible, but Rape happens. Not writing about it, pretending it never happens in a fictional world won't change that.
It happened in Star Treck TNG when Tasha Yar's backtory was revieled. Like Kin, we didn't see the rape but we found out about it by other means. Several characters in comic boocs have similarly been raped in their back story; Black cat, Rogue, Ms. Marvel, Spider Woman etc etc.
Fictional writers sometimes write about rape, and like murder, paedophilia, hate crimes and natural disasters, those things happen in real life and are O.K to write about even if the writer hasn't experienced it first hand because tragedy and personal horror are plot elements that allow the audience to identify/sympathise with the character.
I've been the victim of some horrific hate crime but that doesn't mean I can sling shit at an author for including a plot element similar to my experience in their story. I might get offended if they really did trivialize it, but what THunt has done with Kins story really doesn't so that. He has portrayed it as a very serious and terrible event in her life and I have seen nothing in the story to suggest that it was trivial in the least. Just because she has fallen in love with Minmax doesn't mean she's forgotten her past or that THunt is just using it as a stepping stone in his story telling.
I feel that rather than authors trivializing rape, some survivors treat their experience as their own cursed collar. They let it become such a big defining part of their lives and while I have all the greatest sympathy for anyone who has gone through such horrible things, some people turn their horror into a crusade against anything that reminds them of it in any way that doesn't handle the situation in a way that they personally feel is appropriate or delicate enough for them.
I'm sorry guys, but there are people facing rape, torture, starvation and who knows what else every day. Your angry comments and outraged letters to the author wont do anything productive or helpful for anyone, ever. It just craps out a steaming heap of negativity. Try putting the energy into something more possessive and helpful. Rather than scream blue murder at an author for writing about rape in a way you didn't like, go to a support group and help someone else who's recently been through it. Tell your story to someone who needs to know that life goes on and how you're not going to let it control your life.

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Re: Blog post: Kin's story is kind of true

Post by napslikecat » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:29 pm

The time aspect of things is something I have no problem with.
This world is based on AD&D, where people level up and develop skills and abilities in a matter of days that would normally take years or decades of training. In AD&D, events are more important than time. And Thunt has shown a good sequence of events that make this somewhat plausible.
Also the story is non-linear enough that you can assume(or pretend) multiple days can have passed between plot points.
The story arc itself is short enough chronologically that it may be impossible to fit the proper progression in. I have no problem with the approach taken. And as a long time reader, it has been quite some time for us.

Additionally, this speaks volumes about Kin's character. Kin isn't the only one who has gone under Dellyn's knife, just look at Thac0's flashbacks or Fumbles' state of mind.

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