26th May 2013: Amazing

[Liesmith]

I think the reason the machine may not be able to convert the matter it's destroying into energy is that it's a self-defeating process: it will essentially be deleting its own fuel, and logically, the more of the maze that's obliviated, the more energy will be required to obliviate more of the maze. It's sort of like a decibel scale.

I don't think those arms are going to actually make it to the fire towers. If you look at the ring to which they're bound, you can see it's cracking as the central tower widens a bit near the floor (red circle in image below), and Minmax is behind the flame, for anyone who had trouble spotting him (purple circle):




EDIT: I inexplicably can't attach images from the the site I always use (Pictat), so I used some random service instead, let me know if it won't show up for any of you.

[Krulle]

Two things - first, why does unmaking existence require energy?

Because the gears are not unmaking matter, each one changes ONE universal constant. (Sapphire in panel 1)
And changing constants throughout a whole universe, even if it is just a pocket universe, takes immense energies, as everything is set to a stable solution with the values as is.

Once, the constants have been changed sufficiently that 1=0 becomes true, he uses THAT equation to prove nothing ever existed. (Narration in panel 3)

[cyco]

Just one thing: Where are the bodies of all the alts that have fallen off the tower?

[Sleaw]

Maybe they didn't...



let the bodies hit the floor?

[Mithcoriel]

I'm having trouble understanding what's going on at the end. Why exactly are the arms of the tower screwing downwards now, and not earlier?
Is this all because they broke the wooden beams that were keeping the arms in place and then it spins downwards via gravity?

[Glemp]

I'm having trouble understanding what's going on at the end. Why exactly are the arms of the tower screwing downwards now, and not earlier?
Is this all because they broke the wooden beams that were keeping the arms in place and then it spins downwards via gravity?

That's it. Well, I suppose that there could be a spring inside the tower, but you've got the gist.

[EatsAbug]

Missing bodies - since this is the final big challenge, I'd guess dead parties are starting to reset to their starting chambers.

[EatsAbug]

Those look like magical flames, and in some sense opposites. Maybe HEAL and HARM? MinMax is badly wounded - but maybe he's about to get healed JUST before PsiMax shows up?

Based on PsiMax's past behavior, he's going to talk first - demanding that MinMax turn over the sword, so that when MinMax refuses, PsiMax feels justified in killing him to get it.

[Chessrook44]

To those of you who are wondering why he can't just used the energy caused by destroying all the matter into Oblivion, I have two fallacies regarding that.

One: He needs MASSIVE amounts of energy just to START the change.

Two: He is not changing the matter into energy. He is making it nonexistant. By this, neither the matter, nor the energy it would produce, can exist. He's producing a net NEGATIVE in the amount of "Stuff" (Matter/energy) in the universe, leaving even less of a vaccuum than you think could be possible. How can you run a machine on destroyed matter that never even existed in the first place?

[Gurkenglas]

Uh oh. Looks like that Gollumax is about to get whole loads of kill exp.

[Melkior]

I have a problem with how many alts are still alive.
Assuming we started with ~600 alts.
We should assume at least half of them didn't make it to the tower room.
If everyone is fighting each other and killing half of the alts every 2nd round - we should be with 1 alt by round 16.
but the numbers of the halts stays more or less the same - doesn't seems reasonable.

This was already explained earlier. Firstly, each time the maze restarts, all dead alternates come back to life so they can run the Maze of Many again.. and again, and again, and again, however many times it takes until they win. At the same time, each group which wins is replaced by another alternate reality. This is supposed to continue until every alternate reality has won. But since there are theoretically an infinite number of alternate realities, theoretically it can never end.

Psion-Minmax is trying to end this endless cycle so in a sense, what he's trying to do could be seen as "good" although his methods are at least questionable.

At some time, psion-Minmax will have to realise that he's expending too much energy on trying to obliterate the MoM on this run and it would be easier to simply let Reality 156 win and try again after the next reset.

And panel 6 (bottom left) should say "...but where is he getting..."

[Reads_Forums]

I have a problem with how many alts are still alive.
Assuming we started with ~600 alts.
We should assume at least half of them didn't make it to the tower room.
If everyone is fighting each other and killing half of the alts every 2nd round - we should be with 1 alt by round 16.
but the numbers of the halts stays more or less the same - doesn't seems reasonable.

This was already explained earlier. Firstly, each time the maze restarts, all dead alternates come back to life so they can run the Maze of Many again.. and again, and again, and again, however many times it takes until they win. At the same time, each group which wins is replaced by another alternate reality. This is supposed to continue until every alternate reality has won. But since there are theoretically an infinite number of alternate realities, theoretically it can never end.

Psion-Minmax is trying to end this endless cycle so in a sense, what he's trying to do could be seen as "good" although his methods are at least questionable.

At some time, psion-Minmax will have to realise that he's expending too much energy on trying to obliterate the MoM on this run and it would be easier to simply let Reality 156 win and try again after the next reset.

And panel 6 (bottom left) should say "...but where is he getting..."

I think the previous poster was talking about the battle in the tower room. He made the assumption"every two rounds of combat half the people die" I have no idea where that came from and all he proved was his initial assumptions were wrong.

[apotato]

At some time, psion-Minmax will have to realise that he's expending too much energy on trying to obliterate the MoM on this run and it would be easier to simply let Reality 156 win and try again after the next reset.

i doubt psi-max has let anyone "win" the maze in 800-ish runs. replacement realities would result in modified variables. letting 156 win could mean another 800 attempts while he recalculates every one of the new variables introduced.

that would be why he's intent on resolving this situation first run.

also this is probably the first attempt at creating oblivion and it could likely ruin the MoM upon reset, completely undoing his calculations. there could be holes that lead straight from some rooms directly to the treasure room now.

psi-max's plan seems to be pretty total win/total fail.

[Morrack]

Hm, a few questions about the MinMax... thingie on the third panel.
- Is it supposed to be the OgreMax? I kinda doubt it, he seems pretty much different (also with the eye and all)
- Is is just big and standing on the screw; if so, what is it reaching for? Or is he supposed to be jumping/falling?

Also about the rotating tower, wouldn't it just get stuck between the two pillars?

Just trying to make sense out of it all and curious what others think here .

[Insane Kitty]

I have seen the 1=2 proof:
a = b
a squared = ab
a squared - b squared = ab-b squared
(a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
a+b = b
b+b = b
2b = b
2 = 1

Which is of course the same fallacy.

(a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
a+b = b <==================(Error in this line, as (a-b) = 0

Therefore changing your equation to:
(a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
(0)(a+b) = b(0)
0=0

[Insane Kitty]

Hm, a few questions about the MinMax... thingie on the third panel.
- Is it supposed to be the OgreMax? I kinda doubt it, he seems pretty much different (also with the eye and all)
- Is is just big and standing on the screw; if so, what is it reaching for? Or is he supposed to be jumping/falling?

Also about the rotating tower, wouldn't it just get stuck between the two pillars?

Just trying to make sense out of it all and curious what others think here .

I am thinking that as it spins down, it spins faster, and as it gains momentum, it splits and smashes into the towers destroying everything in the room.

[RedwoodElf]

I have seen the 1=2 proof:
a = b
a squared = ab
a squared - b squared = ab-b squared
(a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
a+b = b
b+b = b
2b = b
2 = 1

Which is of course the same fallacy.

(a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
a+b = b <==================(Error in this line, as (a-b) = 0

Therefore changing your equation to:
(a-b)(a+b) = b(a-b)
(0)(a+b) = b(0)
0=0

Well yes, dot's vy eet iz falze proof...dividing out a value dot iz equal to zero is undefined. Here iz de eckchual schteps involved for doz vut can't tell votz goinck on:

1: Define A and B as nonzero values that are equal.
a <> 0
a = b
2. Multiply both sides of the equation by a
a^2 = ab
3. Subtract b^2 from both sides of the equation
a^2 - b^2 = ab - b^2
4. Factor both sides
(a - b)(a + b) = b(a - b)
5. Divide out (a - b) (UNDEFINED - Divide by zero error!)
a + b = b
6. Observing that a = b
b + b = b
7. Combine left side
2b = b
8. Divide both sides by b
2 = 1

Hyu hef now proved dot black is vite, unt hyu may now get kilt at de next zebra crossing.

[Glemp]

If it's any help, I've come up with my own theory.

Psimax has used his mental powers to make a set of rules of reality so that 1=0 is true. Now he is using his machine to enforce these rules on the rest of the MoM. But here's the thing - no energy from the native reality can be used, because it is based on the assumption that 1=1. This is why the gears are psionic, too - it all has to come from him because 1=0 only exists in his mind.

[T-RexWithTourettes]

Dot trap looks a bit schkrewey to me. Hy em assumink dot ven de arms reach de towers, dey knock dem over for messiff flame based karnage on de floor uf de room. A trap vorddy uf Grimtooth de Troll!

This took me a good minute to read but was worth the laugh

Anyways, that towering spinning down and splattering all the losers...you guys better jump down before you're alt-pplesalce D:
I'm sure it's been pointed out and I've already forgotten somehow, but minor grammar typo on the bottom left. That is all.

[RedwoodElf]

Dot trap looks a bit schkrewey to me. Hy em assumink dot ven de arms reach de towers, dey knock dem over for messiff flame based karnage on de floor uf de room. A trap vorddy uf Grimtooth de Troll!

This took me a good minute to read but was worth the laugh

Anyways, that towering spinning down and splattering all the losers...you guys better jump down before you're alt-pplesalce D:
I'm sure it's been pointed out and I've already forgotten somehow, but minor grammar typo on the bottom left. That is all.

Grimtooth's Traps alvays brinks a zmile to my faze!

http://www.flyingbuffalo.com/trapspic.htm

[Liesmith]

I kinda hope The Chair of "Adventure" makes an appearance once Herbert completely loses patience with Minmax's antics.

[Baeronvonbleat]

Dunnoe if anyone pointed this out - But not only are the corkscrew arms spinning down now (obvious), but the "ring" around the pillar is shattering, so the arms are going to likely fall to the ground before the hit the pillars. Or snap off if they hit the pillars.

[Liesmith]

Dunnoe if anyone pointed this out - But not only are the corkscrew arms spinning down now (obvious), but the "ring" around the pillar is shattering, so the arms are going to likely fall to the ground before the hit the pillars. Or snap off if they hit the pillars.

Yep, I even put up a picture about it, but everyone thought it was too "new wave" for their tastes, so they shunned me.

[RocketScientist]

Liesmith, you expect too much. It's wicked hard to read these long 2-page threads. Probably nobody even saw that.

[DrinksTooMuchCoffee]

Standard Internet SOP Procedure is to read the thread title and then reply. That is if one even looks at the list of threads.