May 03rd, 2013 Out of Hell

[CelineSSauve]

Wasn't the IME green, though? Kin has a green IME but it's the wrong shade of green....unless that specific shade of green is for the teapot. It also seems to be the exact same shade Junior and Dies share.

Right, it does seem to match Dies more than any of Kin's companions, or even herself, but then we could have returned to the GAP after Dies. As it is if it is Dies or Junior then we'd need to go back to them before returning to GAP, and I'm relatively certain Thunt had said in the feed that they were after the Maze.

[willpell]

As it is if it is

Somehow, all things considered, I somehow wonder if Kore = transdimensional version of Forgath following up on this 'message',

I don't know why so many people think this. They have nothing in common except being dwarves and casting CLW. There is more than one dwarf in this universe.

(Incidentally, it just dawned on me that this forum has Marnath, Mereneth, and Mnemeth. I demand that you all get together and do something.)

[pindesucre]

Postby Amara ┬╗ Mon May 06, 2013 4:07 am
I don't know if this was said yet, as there have been many, many pages and I'm still studying for finals but.

1) In all likelihood, Kin will die.
2) Consider the positioning of the last Minmax alternate we were given information on. Using the teapot to go to someone that is already dead? I keyed in on that. Now, in that universe, we can assume it's quite possibly to finish the torture he started, but for our Minmax?

So here's what I see possibly happening;
Minmax 'sees' Kin. She dies, everyone is upset, and they leave the maze post 'final battle' with Psimax, then use the teapot to travel to her (though she is dead.)
Now the question is if this means they can save her. It's been explicitly stated that while bringing someone back to life is difficult in this particular 'verse, it's possible. What better way than clawing their soul back from the underworld itself?

It'd certainly make for an awesome story, at least.

Yes, that's my take on it too (although I suppose Forgath could die too, it would not matter too much in a scenario where MM would go back in time to see Kin alive). There would be no reason to have had the altsplanation just before those pages... Too close to be coincidental, in my opinion.

[CelineSSauve]

As it is if it is

Would "As things stand, if it is" suited you better?

I don't know why so many people think this. They have nothing in common except being dwarves and casting CLW. There is more than one dwarf in this universe.

I'm also confused as to how that theory started.
As best (or worst, depending on how you look at it) Kore is one of Forgath's siblings.

[YardMeat]

I'm also confused as to how that theory started.
As best (or worst, depending on how you look at it) Kore is one of Forgath's siblings.

I think it arose because of the fact that Kore's face is always obscured. When he finally does take off his helmet, the "camera" cuts away before we see his face. The reader naturally assumes that there is something the author is deliberately hiding, and so people start jumping to conclusions. Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure I saw this theory floating around even before the MoM entered the comic and introduced the idea of multiple realities that Kore could have somehow come from. I still don't buy it, though. I personally think Kore's face is being hidden because it will provide some clue about his curse.

[CelineSSauve]

I still don't buy it, though. I personally think Kore's face is being hidden because it will provide some clue about his curse.

I agree with you there.

[Mereneth]

(Incidentally, it just dawned on me that this forum has Marnath, Mereneth, and Mnemeth. I demand that you all get together and do something.)

Dunno about Marnath, but Mnemeth and I have our names drawn from dragon characters. I doubt I would be mistaken to assume his was also PERN related.

[blueEyes]

Maby, just maby, the yuan-ti has two hearts and two sets of lungs, one set in the snake-part of the body and one in the human part, maby her body in just in shock, and is now cutting of the snake part of her from the human one. Like some lizards can grow a new tail, couldn't she maby, but now she will only have one set off vital organs? *Just trying to stay hopefull* :

[YggazTheFool]

The way to victory is, that soon PsyMax realizes that he is kinda covered in feces (the brown goo in him) that he *splhoosed* on himself and goes to take a shower. MinMax berserkes through the teeth again, and grabs Kin while berserker-crashing through the treasure room door. Forgath quickly gets the teapot, and casts a healing spell on Kin, before they walk to the red circle and leave everyone else to obliviate. PsyMax comes back, shurgs his shoulders and obliviates all the rest in the next round.

[Reads_Forums]

If you don't like the amount of death in a novel, series,webcomic etc, pick another author there's enough out there to find one with the right balance for you.

This is just a polite way of telling someone to leave just because his/her opinion differs from yours. Shame on you. If he didn't have some form of attachment he wouldn't be here to voice said opinion any how. Everyone should be allowed to voice their feelings without being told to shove off, no matter how polite it is worded.

This was in response to a "if kin dies, I'll stop reading", it wasn't a "shove off" at all, more of an encouragement to seek out new works rather than get disheartened by a single section of a single work. if kin dies, that readers gone and Thunt isn't about to change a fundamental part of the story to stop them. I hope they find a much lighter work that doesn't upset them enough to put it down.




If Thunt kills kin here it will have all sorts on impact on MM, almost certainly more than if they all agreed to not chase down the goblins and stick together instead, ultimately that scenario would leave them detached from the rest of the story, not reintegrated into it. This way a MM & F, with a new perspective on life could reasonably join GAP in their flight from Kore and work together. I can't see him leaving Kin 10 minutes after "seeing" each other. If you were going to kill her, now is the most dramatic time possible

[willpell]

(Incidentally, it just dawned on me that this forum has Marnath, Mereneth, and Mnemeth. I demand that you all get together and do something.)

Dunno about Marnath, but Mnemeth and I have our names drawn from dragon characters. I doubt I would be mistaken to assume his was also PERN related.

Actually he's a Warforged, so I guess it's just coincidence. Still, I suspected the two of you had a shared interest, but I didn't know it was Pern.

MinMax berserkes through the teeth again, and grabs Kin while berserker-crashing through the treasure room door.

MM has used up both his berserks for the day. Indeed, he's probably Fatigued due to the rage ending, unless Thunt houserules that snapping out of it due to Trueseeing prevents this. He could rule that snapping out causes the rage to not count as used up, but that's be rather hacky of him.

[stevedj]

TL;BTTQSO (Too long, but tried to quickly skim over ), so don't think this was said already.

Ok, a few random thoughts here, which I'll try to pull together coherently...

PsiMax's last statement really got me thinking... maybe he believes (correct or not) that by obliviating the entire MoM, it will result in everyone getting kicked back out to their own reality. Possibly intact and alive, though likely w/o memories of the experience (though perhaps the slightly messed up calculations result in some memories after all?).

Anyway, I wonder if PsiMax starts monologuing about his attempt to rescue everyone from this endless torment (and, Forgath recalling seeing their counter of about 2 million, agrees). Or, at least PsiMax fools Forgath into agreeing. So, Forgath and PsiMax decide to work together, but first heal up (or at least stabilize) Kin. Perhaps while Forgath is doing this, PsiMax goes and "gets" MinMax.

She, however, better understands the true result of total oblivion, and still wants to stop them. Thus, she becomes their "prey", or at least Forgath's prey -- which results in friends becoming enemies (MM and Forgath), and...

...and...

...ok, this idea is falling apart now. Too complex, or too far fetched... but I leave it here anyway, as it feels like there might be something I'm missing that could really tie it all together... or maybe not (just a fun theory, I guess)

[Master TMO]

Left turn: I'm wondering where PsiMax gets his unique arms. Maybe by defeating him, or dealing with him, they'll replace Kin's tail with one made of the same stuff. She'd certainly have a unique look after that.

[Product Placement]

PsiMax's last statement really got me thinking... maybe he believes (correct or not) that by obliviating the entire MoM, it will result in everyone getting kicked back out to their own reality. Possibly intact and alive, though likely w/o memories of the experience (though perhaps the slightly messed up calculations result in some memories after all?).

Gonna put the "doubtful" stamp on this part. In the page where Psimax is first introduced, he seems pretty clear about his intent on ending the existence of everyone in this maze, with the justification that never existed = never felt pain, therefore he is doing them all a favor.

Now, it could be that what drove him to this conclusion is that everyone in the maze are stuck and can't get out and thus, none-existence is preferable to eternity of running through this maze and that could be the subject of his monologue.

[langerhans]

Left turn: I'm wondering where PsiMax gets his unique arms. Maybe by defeating him, or dealing with him, they'll replace Kin's tail with one made of the same stuff. She'd certainly have a unique look after that.

unlike other humanoid limb replacements though, kins tail makes up over half of her body mass, and probably as has been mentioned contains at least the lower part of the digestive system if nothing else critical.

I'm not entirely sure what the deal with PsiMax's arms is, have they been magically replaced or is it just some sort of corruption/mutation? the fact that the arms just fade into the body suggest it's just a corruption of his regular arms

[RocketScientist]

There is more than one dwarf in this universe.

Now there's something you probably never thought you'd have to say.

[DrinksTooMuchCoffee]

Ah, but do all dwarves know each other?

[RJJ7]

I think the theories about Psimax's good intentions are off-base for the following reasons:

1. Psimax has confirmed that the maze is not in and endless loop by his statement here: http://www.goblinscomic.com/04172013/. He said that "every possible outcome" would give him at least 8 minutes before any of the other realities made it up there. If the maze were in a loop, there would be only one outcome, and he would know which reality would make it up there (and when). Furthermore, the probability that his own actions for the 800+ runs he made with memories intact did nothing to break the loop is rather unlikely.

2. If he is just concerned with saving everyone stuck in a loop, then once his oblivion holes came into play, his job was done. Instead of congratulating himself on a job well done, he looks on it as just another obstacle to his goal of bringing oblivion: (same link as above).

3. There has been no hint of such good intentions in any of his dialogue. Why wouldn't he explain his reasons to his teammates? http://www.goblinscomic.com/02222011-2/ Since he's already apologizing for the pain he's had to cause them, why not explain his reasons? He's free enough explaining other things, like the concept of oblivion and an end to pain. But notice that he is always talking in a general sense. He says that existence brings pain, not that existence HERE brings pain. Because existence causes pain, therefore oblivion is good. Nothing about oblivion being the best option in a lousy hand. No, it is just a simple declaration that oblivion is better than existence. If Thunt reveals that Psimax has actually been trying to save everyone from an endless loop, then I will look on it as the author intentionally fudging the dialogue and having people act out of character so that he can unleash his cool idea at a dramatic moment and take everyone completely by surprise. Good writers can create surprises without resorting to such cheap tricks.

Perhaps it would have been cool to have that sort of villain, but I think that Thunt has already committed himself to what we have: A guy who believes, through some twisted logic, that never existing is better than existing (though if it comes to that, Psimax certainly believes that his intentions are good).



Regarding Kin's "death": I'm a little bit in the middle here. On the one hand, I understand and agree with all those people arguing about how excessive character death destroys a story. On the other, I'm not willing to write Kin's death off as meaningless quite yet. I've seen some cool theories about how Minmax will continue to "see" Kin when he wields oblivious. Whether or not that particular theory is correct, if Kin continues to go with us, in one form or another, then I don't think that her death can be regarded as the end of it. On the other hand, if Thunt just has her fade out of the story after doing her bit, then I think I'll come down more in the "too-much-death" camp. But I'm not going to pass judgment until we get a little further along in the story.

[CelineSSauve]

Regarding Kin's "death": [...] I've seen some cool theories about how Minmax will continue to "see" Kin when he wields oblivious.

Interesting. I'd not noted any that claimed Oblivious would be the reason they could remain linked, just the Seeing.

I am looking forward to tomorrow's update.

[RJJ7]

IIRC, it had to do with Kin falling into an oblivion hole. Minmax forgets about her, but can then "see" her when he pulls Oblivious out of the past.

[CelineSSauve]

IIRC, it had to do with Kin falling into an oblivion hole. Minmax forgets about her, but can then "see" her when he pulls Oblivious out of the past.

*dies* That would certainly be another way of "seeing" her.

[Marnath]

(Incidentally, it just dawned on me that this forum has Marnath, Mereneth, and Mnemeth. I demand that you all get together and do something.)

Dunno about Marnath, but Mnemeth and I have our names drawn from dragon characters. I doubt I would be mistaken to assume his was also PERN related.

Marnath was my warforged fighter when I played Dungeons and Dragons Online. I have since used it as my name on every forum I go to. It has never been taken yet so far. Which is weird because it's a real name that people have. Sadly, I do not know of any dragons who carry the name.

*edit: Aside from some fan-fiction that came up on the first page of google for "Marnath Pern", does that count?

[Mereneth]

(Incidentally, it just dawned on me that this forum has Marnath, Mereneth, and Mnemeth. I demand that you all get together and do something.)

Dunno about Marnath, but Mnemeth and I have our names drawn from dragon characters. I doubt I would be mistaken to assume his was also PERN related.

Marnath was my warforged fighter when I played Dungeons and Dragons Online. I have since used it as my name on every forum I go to. It has never been taken yet so far. Which is weird because it's a real name that people have. Sadly, I do not know of any dragons who carry the name.

*edit: Aside from some fan-fiction that came up on the first page of google for "Marnath Pern", does that count?

Well, more specifically outside of Pern, Mnemeth and I had RP characters originating as Silver Dragons with Guardian roles, which, for me at least, was backed in dnd.

I even played some dnd games with him as a half dragon character.

Freakishly connected, that we are!

[Elvors]

I'd rather not discuss whether Kin's death is pointless, good drama, or anywhere in-between.
First, she isn't dead, we don't even know whether she will die or not; second, it's a story arc in progress and Thunt usually makes things fall in place; third, Thunt may be making a somewhat different point than we all are expecting so we might be putting details into wrong perspective.

Let's just wait and see and enjoy the story as it unfolds, before calling any shenanigans.

[DuIstalri]

Thank you Elvors, for putting my thoughts into words.