The Heist - OOC

[Dusk9]

Hmm... I think in draws with opposed checks like that, I'll default to whoever has the highest modifier. So in this case I believe Vatro does notice the scaliness, yes

[M0rtimer]

Time for Vatro to reveal he's a closet racist?

[SuperVaderMan]

Actually (pushes up glasses), RAW:

If the contest results in a tie, the situation remains the
same as it was before the contest. Thus, one contestant
might win the contest by default. If two characters tie in
a contest to snatch a ring off the floor, neither character
grabs it. In a contest between a monster trying to open
a door and an adventurer trying to keep the door closed,
a tie means that the door remains shut.

The situation remains the same as it was before the contest, so in this case Vatro would remain unaware of Veska's texture

[Dusk9]

Actually, since Veska was the one who initiated the contest, the default state would be before she tried to control what Vatro was touching. So he'd just touch her normally and feel scales

(Also that rule seems way too vague and up to interpretation in a lot of cases, so I'm probably just gonna stick to my highest modifier ruling )

[SuperVaderMan]

I would argue that the rule's intention is "what is the state of things before the contest is initiated," meaning 'Vatro has not touched Veska's scales.' Otherwise, by your logic, the given example of a monster pushing open the door would be the default before the adventurer initiated the contest to try and keep it closed.

[Dusk9]

On first reading I agreed with you, but then I considered it another way;
- State 1: Vatro is touching Veska to cast Guidance, and is (probably) gonna touch something scaly.
- State 2: Veska uses Sleight of Hand to direct Vatro's touch somewhere without scales (your roll).
- State 3: Vatro contests with his own Sleight of Hand (Theis' roll).

So on a draw, it defaults to state 1 - Vatro casting Guidance normally, and (probably) touching scales.

► Show Spoiler

In the door example, it would be;
- State 1: Door is closed.
- State 2: Monster tries to push door open (Strength check).
- State 3: Adventurer holds it closed (Strength check).

However, if the door was open to begin with, and the adventurer was trying to push it closed, then the monster would burst through on a draw instead!

And this is exactly why I said this rule was vague and annoying. Too much room for debate on what the "default state" is, especially when it isn't clear (there was no guarantee that Vatro was even gonna touch scales, after all). And especially when it inevitably comes to something like Stealth vs Perception

Nah, I'm gonna stick to the highest modifier rule. With a d2 roll to decide if those are tied too.

[SuperVaderMan]

Hmm, I see what you mean. The default in this case, Vatro touches Veska to cast Guidance on her, doesn't indicate one way or the other on whether scaliness was felt, so the RAW ruling doesn't help much and therefore creates a situation that needs to be debated over. Yeah, having a hard ruling is better.

I would argue against having the higher modifier win automatically, though, imo . The person with the higher modifier already has the numbers advantage, so why give them the extra 5% (on a d20) advantage against someone (un)lucky enough to tie with them? Just do a tiebreaker, I say.

[thinkslogically]

The highest modifier has precedent - it's used in deciding Initiative rolls.

Do with that information whatever you will

[spiderwrangler]

I don't think that's even official precedent in 5e though.

"If a tie occurs, the DM decides the order among tied DM-controlled creatures, and the players decide
the order among their tied characters. The DM can decide the order if the tie is between a monster and a player character. Optionally, the DM can have the tied characters and monsters each roll a d20 to determine the order, highest roll going first."

That's certainly a common way that people use to determine ties in initiative roll, but I don't think that comparing modifiers is officially codified in 5e rules.

[Dusk9]

Yeah, I didn't just pull it out of my ass or anything. I saw a couple of posts in other D&D forums and decided I liked the idea.

And I'd argue it does make sense, if you look at it from the perspective of the player with the higher modifier.

Imagine you're a Barbarian who's invested heavily in Strength, so you have an almost unbeatable modifier. And you try to grapple a weakling Wizard with a -5 modifier or something. Except he rolls godly and you roll absolute crap, and - even though you both got the exact same end result - he ends up victorious.

If I were him, I'd be pretty damn annoyed

The way I see it, it's a little boost to reward characters who are supposed to be really good at something. In most cases it's never going to come up (base probability of two d20 getting a specific roll each is 0.25%, and that doesn't take into account the upper/lower boundaries).

[thinkslogically]

@spider - I honestly thought that was a real rule! Welp, live and learn

[Dusk9]

Whoops, just noticed I made a little mistake there Vader. The small gems are 10gp each - that 40gp total amount I gave was a typo, should be 30gp. Sorry for any confusion there

The other four are still 50gp per gem though, so you know...

[SuperVaderMan]

Dang. I edited the amounts then

[Dusk9]

I'm assuming you guys are paying the extra 1cp each to get taken directly to the safehouse?

[M0rtimer]

You think Uragah has that kind of money to throw around?! But yeah, sure.

[SuperVaderMan]

I guess me and Theis can retroactively roleplay the rest of our night if we want, at the same time we start the new day with the rest of the party?

However Vatro wants to divide the loot, Veska will let him hold onto it all in his bag of holding for protection against Locate Object (including her writing supplies). She's not comfortable letting him hold all of it, so she'll remember what her share was.

Also she'll keep the door to her room locked with a dresser/wardrobe in front of it so some force needs to be applied to open it, and then she'll have a noise trap set up in front of that, with like a mirror or a painting or something that'll tip over and smash/bang on the floor if the dresser/wardrobe is pushed against it even a little. She'll pick a top-floor bedroom if there is one.

She'll put a piece of parchment in front of her bedroom - a drawing of a crossed-out image of an open door, with a skull-and-crossbones next to it.

[M0rtimer]

"Open door to join pirate crew..? OH BOI!"

[Dusk9]

Soooo...you guys miss the update, or.....?

[SuperVaderMan]

I'm waiting for anyone else to post

[Dusk9]

If anyone wants to try and decipher the ledger from the safe, they'll need to make a Investigation check (Veska would have disadvantage because of the whole illiteracy thing).

Same goes for studying the blueprints (except Veska can make a normal roll for that, since her illiteracy is cancelled out by her sewer/plumbing knowledge).

[Theis2]

Sorry, I've had a lot of hours at work this week. I'll try to post a bit during my next break. Otherwise just pretend he is nodding as if interested even though he isn't listening.

Would be nice if you could roll for the sewer blue print

[Dusk9]

Investigation check: 1D20+0 = [19]+0 = 19


Hey, this one didn't suck!

[Dusk9]

Oh yeah, and Jax did remember to grab his stuff from the tree. Because I don't want to waste any more time with that inn either

[SuperVaderMan]

Would a magnifying glass be useful in deciphering said plumbing blueprints?

[Dusk9]

Hmm....it wouldn't give straight-up Advantage, but I might give a small hidden bonus...