Thunt Tweet Talkabout

For anything related to the Goblin's Community beyond the forum, or for anything that does not fit elsewhere. Newcomers should introduce themselves here.
User avatar
CelineSSauve
Indulges in Conversation
Posts: 755
UStream Username: CelineSSauve

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by CelineSSauve » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:56 pm

willpell wrote:
CelineSSauve wrote:@Thunt_Goblins Danielle is making changes to Goblins. Removing phrases that aren't in the open licence agreement. This is depressing.
@Thunt_Goblins Yuan-ti, Maglubiyet, Dungeon Master... even Player's Handbook (and more). It's all got to be taken out of the comic. :(
@Thunt_Goblins No one has smacked us with a cease & desist, but Rusty & Co. was recently hit with one and I don't want to have to deal with that.

WOTC... the new TSR. Officially. >:(
SUUUUCK. Makes me glad I've been saving all the strips in their original form. Still, I'd always found it surprising that this wasn't already the case.
I'm rather sad, not only on the continued spread of corporate greed (yes... let's not allow people to use terms related to our products which may introduce new people to our products and perhaps create some good will with customers that we're chased away in the past...) but also that my first two books now won't be "official". :(

User avatar
TinSoldier
Is Heard Often
Posts: 315
UStream Username: TinSoldier6
Contact:

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by TinSoldier » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:15 pm

I understand protecting your intellectual property, but I also understand the need for fair use protections.

Unfortunately too many companies get around fair use by using trademarks instead of copyrights.

User avatar
Alarikun
Of Few Words
Posts: 84

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by Alarikun » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:23 pm

*Sigh* Looks like I'll be going through all his comics tonight and saving a copy of them onto my Hard Drive.

User avatar
RocketScientist
Global Moderator
Posts: 5888
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by RocketScientist » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:09 am

I would expect fair use to cover terms like Player's Handbook. He's not selling one. He's talking about it. You can talk about Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets without getting a C&D.

User avatar
CelineSSauve
Indulges in Conversation
Posts: 755
UStream Username: CelineSSauve

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by CelineSSauve » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:22 am

I'm also wondering how US and Canadian Trademark and Copywrite laws work together. (We covered Patents and Industrial Designs in the first half of our Intellectual Property course, and I know those don't carry over unless you actually apply in Canada.)

Of course, if Thunt's publisher are in the States, then that might be part of the issue. :shrug:

(As for saving all the classics. Wow. I got the first 300 and I just barely passed the point where the second book ends.)


EDIT: And what about Driders? If he has to remove Driders then we lose this sequence... http://www.goblinscomic.com/03112009/
Last edited by CelineSSauve on Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Marnath
Is Heard Often
Posts: 378

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by Marnath » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:12 am

CelineSSauve wrote:I'm also wondering how US and Canadian Trademark and Copywrite laws work together. (We covered Patents and Industrial Designs in the first half of our Intellectual Property course, and I know those don't carry over unless you actually apply in Canada.)

Of course, if Thunt's publisher are in the States, then that might be part of the issue. :shrug:

(As for saving all the classics. Wow. I got the first 300 and I just barely passed the point where the second book ends.)


EDIT: And what about Driders? If he has to remove Driders that we lose this sequence... http://www.goblinscomic.com/03112009/
I don't see any driders on that page. All I see is a spider-elf mutant. >:D

User avatar
Athedia
Of Few Words
Posts: 88
UStream Username: Athedia
Location: Keystone of the States

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by Athedia » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:28 pm

Totally all I see there. Hey what will this do to Spinnerette? since a major arc is where Evil Spinnerette (Alexis) gets a old Player's Handbook and turns herself (and later her friends) into driders.

And what about YAFGC?
Thank you anonymous friend from college who made the cute ninja. I insist on using it as my avatar until you join the forums since you love the comic. Take that.

Okay, she joined but I am not taking this down. Come on, look at the cute.

User avatar
willpell
Banned
Posts: 2085
Contact:

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by willpell » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:07 pm

Athedia wrote:Totally all I see there. Hey what will this do to Spinnerette? since a major arc is where Evil Spinnerette (Alexis) gets a old Player's Handbook and turns herself (and later her friends) into driders.
Argh. Now I have to go do an archive-binge.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
My long-neglected blog.

User avatar
gamecreator
Prattles on Unremittingly
Posts: 3116
Location: Ukraine

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by gamecreator » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:25 pm

Somewhere site-archiving software exists...

User avatar
Athedia
Of Few Words
Posts: 88
UStream Username: Athedia
Location: Keystone of the States

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by Athedia » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:53 pm

willpell wrote:
Athedia wrote:Totally all I see there. Hey what will this do to Spinnerette? since a major arc is where Evil Spinnerette (Alexis) gets a old Player's Handbook and turns herself (and later her friends) into driders.
Argh. Now I have to go do an archive-binge.
I would apologize but Spinnerette is a great webcomic to follow. And they just started doing it in all color.
Thank you anonymous friend from college who made the cute ninja. I insist on using it as my avatar until you join the forums since you love the comic. Take that.

Okay, she joined but I am not taking this down. Come on, look at the cute.

User avatar
willpell
Banned
Posts: 2085
Contact:

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by willpell » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:05 pm

Yes, I saw that. I particularly love the latest page, in which Super-MILF says what we're all thinking (and by "we all" I of course mean just me).

I'd be happier if not for the fact that the page has about a billion flash ads all over it, which I can't even see at my screen resolution, but they still slow my computer down and made Firefox crash three times while I was going through the whole archive (not a terrible rate perhaps, but still annoying).
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
My long-neglected blog.

User avatar
CelineSSauve
Indulges in Conversation
Posts: 755
UStream Username: CelineSSauve

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by CelineSSauve » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:05 am

Never heard of Spinnerette, but "By the Book" is all about a group of monsters who found a PHB and then decided to become PCs.

User avatar
TinSoldier
Is Heard Often
Posts: 315
UStream Username: TinSoldier6
Contact:

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by TinSoldier » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:25 pm

RocketScientist wrote:I would expect fair use to cover terms like Player's Handbook. He's not selling one. He's talking about it. You can talk about Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets without getting a C&D.
It probably would, but the possibility that Hasbro would sue for it anyway could take up a lot of time and resources that Thunt is unwilling or unable to spare.

Not that that is justice, but still.

User avatar
CelineSSauve
Indulges in Conversation
Posts: 755
UStream Username: CelineSSauve

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by CelineSSauve » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:53 pm

TinSoldier wrote:
RocketScientist wrote:I would expect fair use to cover terms like Player's Handbook. He's not selling one. He's talking about it. You can talk about Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets without getting a C&D.
It probably would, but the possibility that Hasbro would sue for it anyway could take up a lot of time and resources that Thunt is unwilling or unable to spare.

Not that that is justice, but still.
It rarely is with large companies. After all, the Cease and Desist that got Thunt to start doing all of this was over a monster in the SRD... :wall:

User avatar
Krulle
Transcribes Goblins
Posts: 8116
Contact:

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by Krulle » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:08 am

Well, chances are, that Hasbro would not win any court-case.
But the time-binding amount is huge.
Better: call your fans to NOT use (and buy) any more products of the C&D-ing company and their daughter/mother/sister-companies.

To CelineSSauve above:
USoA laws NEVER transport over to Canada.
Trademark needs to be registered separately in Canada, a US-trademark does not apply automagically in Canada.
BUT, copyright is a different topic. Copyright ALWAYS applies, because it works without registering (that's why its comparatively weak, you need to prove your copyright), but the copyright-laws of Canada apply, and not the more restrictive ones of the USoA.
Goblinscomic transcriptions
Collection of G:AR cards

User avatar
CelineSSauve
Indulges in Conversation
Posts: 755
UStream Username: CelineSSauve

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by CelineSSauve » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:52 am

Krulle wrote:To CelineSSauve above:
USoA laws NEVER transport over to Canada.
Trademark needs to be registered separately in Canada, a US-trademark does not apply automagically in Canada.
BUT, copyright is a different topic. Copyright ALWAYS applies, because it works without registering (that's why its comparatively weak, you need to prove your copyright), but the copyright-laws of Canada apply, and not the more restrictive ones of the USoA.
That's not completely true. Some USofA laws do carry over if Canada made an international treaty into binding Canadian Law (So USA laws might apply because Canadian Laws mimic them. :roll: The convoluted thought process in my Law Clerk program...). But I do believe you're right for the trade-marks needing to be registered separately. That's what we've learnt so far on trade-mark in class, anyway.

[In case you're wondering: USA trademark; England trade mark; Canada trade-mark. I think because we're special. o:) Or, you know, strange. :P I forgot in my earlier posts because everyone else was using spelling common in the States.]

User avatar
Krulle
Transcribes Goblins
Posts: 8116
Contact:

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by Krulle » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:00 am

Well, I do work for an international organisation in the field of IP....
Treaties making things cross over are difficult, and normally require either a very aligned law, or have extra requirements for the law to pass over the border.
My playing field is in Europe though, with the common market developing here, there's plenty of pit-falls for anyone. Up to the point where a local company having a registered trade mark in their home country can loose the trade mark because a young company from abroad registered an EU-brand and put more money in marketing. The older right lost the court case, which in my eyes is astonishing, especially because the aggressor (the younger brand) does not even sell or market anything in the field of the registered trade mark. The fields do not even overlap (older brand: a coffee bar selling own brand coffee and other drinks, younger brand: computers, telephones, electronic gadgets). Let's see the next instance's decision....

Regarding USoA and Canadian laws passing over: this concerns mostly criminal law, and commercial/economic laws (NAFTA requirements), AFAIK. State granted monopolies are more or less excluded in the treaties, as those normally are a politically important field of remaining sovereign (state-granted monopolies are e.g. copyright, trade marks, designs (utility model, design patent), patents, use of medicines against certain maladies). Although the USoA put a lot of effort into pushing the USoA copyright law onto their neighbours. Please elaborate if you want, otherwise I will read it up when I have the time. ;)
BTW, the best known examples for cross-border law application: the common approval procedure for medicines and/or technological products (cars, airplanes, electrical devices). As these approval procedures are very costly and time consuming, there's a large economical interest in aligning procedures and simply accepting the verdict of states with comparable legal requirements).



But the actual reason why I came back to this thread: another thought to the threat against the mentioning of the trade marks:
the mentioning of trade marks not held by the author normally is allowable, especially when he does not say anything negative about the brand or only compares facts with comparable other products (for example comparing stats from different races), and can be seen as involuntary commercial for the owner of the trade mark. Especially in the field of product-related community products (e.g. fanfics, comics).
Now, if THunt would try to sell a kind of cushion looking similar to (e.g.) Kin to make some money with articles designed after figures from the comic, THEN he gets into troubles, as that's the moment he does try to make money from something modelled after something originally developed by someone else.
As long as it's just in the comics, the chances that a court would order a cease and desist against the creator of the comic is rather low (but the time spent by the author is time lost, depending on the court the costs of the attorneys too). But selling merchandise would change the playing field very much toward the company having the trade mark, the copyright, the design patent, ... by an order of magnitude.
BUT, the company DOES have a right that their trade mark must be mentioned as closely as possible to the mentioning of the trade mark (e.g. by a bottom line "Yuan-ti, and their the general properties is a trade mark of Hasbro Inc." on the page of at least the first mentioning) (PS: I do not know if Hasbro is the owner or not, it's just an example).

If the threatening company would pressure too much, the whole community will be choked to a halt (no more fanfic, fanideas,... from the community) and turn to a different product which seems to be more willing to have a living community (which actually makes the products so successful).
Goblinscomic transcriptions
Collection of G:AR cards

User avatar
CelineSSauve
Indulges in Conversation
Posts: 755
UStream Username: CelineSSauve

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by CelineSSauve » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:19 am

Krulle wrote:If the threatening company would pressure too much, the whole community will be choked to a halt (no more fanfic, fanideas,... from the community) and turn to a different product which seems to be more willing to have a living community (which actually makes the products so successful).
Which is exactly why I had suspected WOTC has learnt its lessons from TSRs mistakes. I guess not.

They actually took down a topic on this from their forums (you could catch it on Google, but there was no archive of it).

User avatar
Krulle
Transcribes Goblins
Posts: 8116
Contact:

Re: Thunt Tweet Talkabout

Post by Krulle » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:18 am

I see the problem very often in the "consulting" attorneys of the company. They need to show what their work is good for.
And attorneys tend to interpret laws VERY strictly in their favour, thus very often missing the intent of the law.
They do not see possible marketing consequences (nor is that their responsibility), and due to the hierarchy in most firms, attorneys are much closer advisers to management than marketing is. Especially when the legal department tells management that the company owns that stuff, and someone else is using it, management forgets to ask marketing why marketing did not point out this "problem" to management. And then marketing gets the shit because they are not able to sell anymore, while the attorneys shift the blame on the community for having used their successful products without licensing fee, thus making the company fail earnings of imaginary $x million $currency_units, slightly omitting the fact, that the overpriced products became a success because the community was free to do a lot of different things with them, thus creating a HUGE community.
Goblinscomic transcriptions
Collection of G:AR cards

Post Reply