GAR Updates?

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Groo_the_Wanderer
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GAR Updates?

Post by Groo_the_Wanderer » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:25 pm

Hey wondering if anyone had any info on what's going on with GAR?

Last I heard they were expecting to have sent out the initial copies of the game to the upper level backers around now.

Anyone received a demo copy yet? I emailed them and didn't get an answer and their site has been down for a week so it's actually got me a little concerned at this point.

Thanks.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by CowsGoMoo » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:39 pm

From what I know their website died around mid-late May, was up again a few days, and then has been down since then. So that's around a month now.
They have not logged on to Kickstarter in close to a month either.

Some quotes from Kickstarter comments from backers of this or another game they made (Mr. Card Game) is also concerning:

"The fact that Evertide are now not responding to emails and PM isn't a good sign. "

"I suggest backers here should look at the Mr Card Game project.
The Evertide Games web-site is down. They are not answering emails.
Evertide privately contacted Australian (and Asian) backers of Mr Card Game with an emaill saying they could not afford to ship them the game...at least we received that notification!

Delivery of this project is way behind schedule...I have to wonder if this game will ever go into production...if Evertide Games cannot afford a few thousand dollars to ship games to Australia, I have to ask how they expect to fund the production of Goblins?"

"I'm one of those backers. And my faith in Evertide Games is rapidly dwindling. It took them nearly 6 months to give me a usable reply as to why G:AR isn't showing up on my Evertide Games Store profile.. And even that reply is just an excuse. "Some database migration problems".."

Etc.

They also rarely respond to questions posted to their Facebook page, and replies tend to be "send us an e-mail."
But I've seen comments about taking upwards of 6 months to get a reply via e-mail in some cases, so yeah.

Trying not to be too pessimistic, but difficult not to be anymore.

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Groo_the_Wanderer
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Groo_the_Wanderer » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:26 pm

yeah I got that ... they took us for a ride ... feeling going on as well.

I hope Thunt at least got his cut already. In hindsight I should have just donated that cash directly to him instead of the game, I'd get the same result (it looks like) and he'd have more cash in his pockets.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by nikohl » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:45 am

Mr Card Game exists and has been shipped to American backers, so i don't think it's a scam - I think Evertide bit off more than they could chew and have not yet stepped up and taken responsibility for admitting that. A public admission that they're floundering would really help.

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Groo_the_Wanderer
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Groo_the_Wanderer » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:40 am

What worries me there is backers who aren't in Canada or the US can today, right now, order from Amazon the game they backed and get it sent with "free shipping" yet they haven't received the copy of the game they backed because the company apparently hired another firm to do those orders and they aren't happening. If you aren't an American or Canadian backer of Mr. Card Game it's looking like it's "Thanks for the cash, sorry we can't give you anything for it consider it a donation to our worthy efforts!". The ethics involved in doing something like that is ... well ... concerning at the very least.

I guess I am not saying it's a "scam" per se, but what I am saying is that they are obviously a very poorly run company. I get they are a new company I really do, and as such there are growing pains to be expected but the utter lack of communication and transparency is appalling new company or not. Most companies that aren't self funded have investors, they have every right and expectation of being in the loop with where the project is headed and what timelines are being met and which are being adjusted and exactly why. When you kickstart, the crowd who funded the project IS your investor group. They (and thus WE) deserve that level of transparency.

I think the vast majority of backers would prefer to have regular (even every other month) communication from them as to what exactly is going on. I don't want to hear about ethereal "challenges" or mystical "gameplay issues". Explain what they are, and why it's worth delaying everything to fix it and how they will still have the resources to deliver on their promises even with the extended development time because face it every day that goes by that the game is overdue to be available for sale is a day that people are getting paid without product selling and thus eating into their margins.

I am seriously concerned that they may be running a bit of an unintentional ponzi scheme where GAR and to a lesser extent amazon sales are funding their ability to actually deliver Mr. Card Game and unless they have that next $150-$200k game funding soon there won't be any cash left to actually deliver to us. Looking at the timelines it does appear that Mr. Card game started shipping a just over a year late and about 4 months after GAR funded. Certinaly makes one wonder why the long delay and the sudden completion.

It's starting to look like there will be at least a full year delay from when GAR was promised to when it ships as well (assuming it ever does) and with Thunt probably unlikely to be returning by then even I am not sure I will care when I do get it. Reading the Mr. Card Game kickstarter there were several people who commented that by they time they actually got the game they had forgotten they have even backed it and it's been sitting untouched. If GAR is headed down that road then I would have certainly preferred to just give Tarrol the cash as he'd have all of it then.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by RocketScientist » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:55 am

If they hired another firm to do overseas orders, then isn't it on the other firm if they don't get done? Or did they just "hire" them and not actually pay them? Either way, I get the frustration of not getting what you paid for, and agree that they should share what's going on with their backers.

Is there any recourse for backers if the folks at Evertide don't hold up their end of the deal?
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by nikohl » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:20 am

Quote from KS:

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.


I'm patiently waiting for Mr Card Game - am not expecting to see GAR anytime soon, obviously, because it's still being created. But I had a "we're sending your game soon" email re: Mr Card Game not too long ago, so I'm still hoping to see it.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:45 pm

I've pretty much written off my $99 at this point. Evertide's last few kickstarter updates were clearly filler, their web site has disappeared and all their social media accounts have been dormant for more than half a year. I agree that it feels like they bit off more than they could chew and not an intentional scam...but the results are the same either way.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:41 pm

Just talked to Danielle, who had just emailed with Evertide. They're still behind schedule due to the rules changes and the resulting art changes, but they are still working on it and plan to send out an update in July.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Groo_the_Wanderer » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:30 am

That is good news, I have NO idea why Evertide can't just post that.

If they posted once a month or so just with a "here is where we are" it would sit better with most. Sure they are going to get some who will rake them over the coals for what's going on, but honestly THOSE people are already doing it.

Go ahead, provide the updates with some actual meat on the bones, respond to the haters with the bland filler crap they are feeding us now.

PR really isn't that hard for something like this. Honestly.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Buta » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:51 pm

Groo_the_Wanderer wrote:What worries me there is backers who aren't in Canada or the US can today, right now, order from Amazon the game they backed and get it sent with "free shipping" yet they haven't received the copy of the game they backed because the company apparently hired another firm to do those orders and they aren't happening. If you aren't an American or Canadian backer of Mr. Card Game it's looking like it's "Thanks for the cash, sorry we can't give you anything for it consider it a donation to our worthy efforts!". The ethics involved in doing something like that is ... well ... concerning at the very least.
I am one of the UK backers that went through Evertide directly after Thunt offered the option. Gawd I hope it hasn't come to that. I'm losing more than $99 with this. I have tried contacting Thunt and Evertide, particularly since I have had a name and an address change, but nothing.

I've also noticed they changed their policy to be "US only". I almost cried when I saw that after already putting in my order before it was changed.
I guess I am not saying it's a "scam" per se, but what I am saying is that they are obviously a very poorly run company. I get they are a new company I really do, and as such there are growing pains to be expected but the utter lack of communication and transparency is appalling new company or not. Most companies that aren't self funded have investors, they have every right and expectation of being in the loop with where the project is headed and what timelines are being met and which are being adjusted and exactly why. When you kickstart, the crowd who funded the project IS your investor group. They (and thus WE) deserve that level of transparency.

I think the vast majority of backers would prefer to have regular (even every other month) communication from them as to what exactly is going on. I don't want to hear about ethereal "challenges" or mystical "gameplay issues". Explain what they are, and why it's worth delaying everything to fix it and how they will still have the resources to deliver on their promises even with the extended development time because face it every day that goes by that the game is overdue to be available for sale is a day that people are getting paid without product selling and thus eating into their margins.

I am seriously concerned that they may be running a bit of an unintentional ponzi scheme where GAR and to a lesser extent amazon sales are funding their ability to actually deliver Mr. Card Game and unless they have that next $150-$200k game funding soon there won't be any cash left to actually deliver to us. Looking at the timelines it does appear that Mr. Card game started shipping a just over a year late and about 4 months after GAR funded. Certinaly makes one wonder why the long delay and the sudden completion.

It's starting to look like there will be at least a full year delay from when GAR was promised to when it ships as well (assuming it ever does) and with Thunt probably unlikely to be returning by then even I am not sure I will care when I do get it. Reading the Mr. Card Game kickstarter there were several people who commented that by they time they actually got the game they had forgotten they have even backed it and it's been sitting untouched. If GAR is headed down that road then I would have certainly preferred to just give Tarrol the cash as he'd have all of it then.
I don't know what to do... :(

Edit:
Great, how long has Evertide's site been down?

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Groo_the_Wanderer
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Groo_the_Wanderer » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:19 pm

Weeks.

It was down since the 10th when I posted the OP. It, in part, is what spurred me to post it in the first place. It hasn't really be "up" at all since.

According to updates on Mr. Card game it's part of the reason for the delays in shipping for them and they are working to have that resolved "Soon".

*sigh*

Going to the site now it doesn't even resolve / respond. At least the last time I went there it was coming up with an error page.

I am sure this is something that Thunt is aware of and it sure as hell can't be helping his recovery efforts.... fuckers

And I don't use that language lightly at all, but with regards to evertide it sure seems to be appropriate.

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Groo_the_Wanderer
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Groo_the_Wanderer » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:43 am

Seems the server for their site is now actively refusing connections. Going from bad to worse I would say on that front. :sulk:

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Synch
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Synch » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:52 pm

It looks like they're aware of the problem and trying to fix it.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1184171/wiki-site-down

I'd say they're trying to clear their backlog of Mr Card Game first, then will sort out GAR.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:57 pm

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:13 pm

Update: Thunt says he's going to try to contact Evertide tomorrow, and will get back to us as soon as he can. He also says that they're contractually obligated to finish Mr. Card Game first, and they're trying to sort out that tangle.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:46 am

The inquiries are appreciated, WearsHats. FWIW I would advise Thunt to take anything these guys say with a grain of salt the size of Gibraltar. Their track record suggests they are lot better at making promises and giving assurances than they are at actually delivering the goods.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:40 pm

They just posted an update. Short version is that they've been reworking the game mechanics. Sounds like a total redesign. But they say the current system is looking good so far. Just have to be patient and hope they can get it all together.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:26 pm

Yah, just showed up in my email. Tl;dr we took 100k plus promising a game we didn't have, when we do we'll let ya know. Well, at least they're honest. I'll be sure to update my shipping address to the nursing home I'm in when they are done.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by WearsHats » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:50 pm

Hey, they had a playable game last Fall. I've seen it. I've played it. They were ready to put on the final polish and get it shipped when they noticed a rules exploit. One thing we've consistently seen from them as they developed the game is that they're perfectionists. They want the game to be as good as it possibly can be, even if that means going well past the extra mile.

That they haven't been communicating with us isn't great. But I'd rather they put out a really good game that we can enjoy for years to come (and take longer doing it) then that they go ahead and publish a game that gets boring as soon as everyone at the table realizes that if you get the right starting hand, you can be unbeatable.
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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:26 am

WearsHats wrote:Hey, they had a playable game last Fall. I've seen it. I've played it. They were ready to put on the final polish and get it shipped when they noticed a rules exploit.
Exactly. They had a prototype, it didn't work. (insert sad trombone sound here) So they didn't really have a game, and by their own admission have spent months trying to create one. Now, according to the update, they finally have it...or not, depending on playtesting. Like I said, at least they're honest.

More troubling is that after not delivering the product anything like on schedule and shutting down their web site, designer and director of publicity Graydon Schlichter uses this update to announce he's "stepping away" from the company. Meaning that, so far as I can tell, all that remains of "Evertide Games" is a guy named Rich James. Bummer.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Avistew » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:13 pm

I'm not surprised or worried. For one thing, Kickstarters are not pre-orders. You're never certain to get anything at all for your trouble. But also, well, all Kickstarters I've taken part in have been late to some extent. There is one for 2... or maybe even 3 years ago that my husband spent over 500 dollars on and has no news about whatsoever. It's not unusual. Looks like they're still working on it so it will be done at some point. I always add one on two years to the delivery date people post one their kickstarter, because they usually have no idea how long these things actually take and don't account for the delays that pretty much always happen.

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by Lurks Silently » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:11 pm

This (lack of) news regarding the Kickstarter can't be helping the public perception of Goblins and THunt right now. Feeling for him. :(

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by DrinksBeer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:03 am

Groo_the_Wanderer wrote: I am seriously concerned that they may be running a bit of an unintentional ponzi scheme where GAR and to a lesser extent amazon sales are funding their ability to actually deliver Mr. Card Game and unless they have that next $150-$200k game funding soon there won't be any cash left to actually deliver to us. Looking at the timelines it does appear that Mr. Card game started shipping a just over a year late and about 4 months after GAR funded. Certinaly makes one wonder why the long delay and the sudden completion.
I wonder if fans of the web comic Romantically Apocalyptic are the next tier. Evertide may have stopped updating on Facebook, but their erstwhile leader Richard James hasn't. His personal page links to his favorite games: Mr. Card Game, G:AR...and Adventures in Captania. That link goes to a Facebook page created in mid-January of 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/AdventuresInCaptania/timeline

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Re: GAR Updates?

Post by RocketScientist » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:43 pm

Wow. That's... Wow.
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