Surviving Castle Heterodyne - OOC Discussion Thread

[Nerre]

I had worked 10 hours, I was tired and just wanted to react to the last update (as I often am not online on the weekend except the weather is really shitty) and just flew over the text as I had to leave very quick on 18:00. Sorry if I did something wrong.
As the others already said, I do not play much on the weekend so this maybe was the last thing I wrote for 3 days. Might not be on on saturday and sunday as we have already plans for both days.

[spiderwrangler]

As long as you'll take more care to read the text before responding... we can call that a learning experience.

[Nerre]

X deleted. Seems I am too stupid to read. That must be it, yes. And I am a bad guy cause I don't read everything all the time and remember it perfectly. I just wrote down the main reasons, but it seems nobody cares. Keep stabbing me then.

For other RL-problems people are all of a sudden very political correct care bears, but if I have one, well, let's kill his char and then blame him. That is just hypocrit. If I would get diagnosed something cause of my memory problems, all of a sudden all would be "oh sorry" and "I did not know" and "why didn't you tell us" or whatever happens whenever people bash people until they see a proper reason. Happend often enough for example somebody coming not in the forum and then he is back after a long time and tells about being sick or in a hospital or having had other RL-problems. Yes, mine are not that bad, but I refuse to tell everthing in a public forum just to make people act nicer. Often enough people manage to just be nice without having to consider something, they just are cause it is the right thing. Sometimes, the effort it takes to keep playing explodes cause the text length suddenly is insane long compared to what it was before or what you did expect, and if you then have not enough time, what do you do? Fly over it and write something with the pieces you can remember? Leave the game? Wait until you cought up, making others wait or you miss much plot?

Edit: Decided to write the reasons down more detailed for those who actually care:
It would have been perfectly fine if the warning had come earlier, but I had a deadline at which I had to shut down the PC and hurry to drive elsewhere, and since I did not know if I had any access on the weekend, I still wanted to write something and had no time left to explain why I wrote it. 18:02 was already 2 minutes over the deadline, after that I was near-instantly out the door.
Carpenters had turned a 4 day job into a nearly 2,5 week job, I did not sleep properly for the same reasons for nearly 3 weeks and are on my last legs, and I did not know if I could use my PC at home now or not. This is no important RL-reason like being sick or depressed or whatever gets people much commiseration, but it is a honest and good reason in my eyes. If that is not enough for some, then I cannot change it. But to all who got aggressive and unfriendly: you just ruined my evening over a game I liked until 22:00 o'clock for just a game. Not cause my char is dead or people do not seem to care much except one, but cause so many gang up on me for a a reason of faint importance. This really hurts! Hope you had a great day and that it was worth it and you are proud of it!

[BadgeAddict]

(my words below should not be read by people who don't want to hear me complain.) This is your only warning.

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and not to create a giant blackhole of arguments...but, when it comes down to it, no excuse is good enough to explain how you just didn't read Spiders post. The plain thing is, you missed it, or skipped it, or ignored it. And further, it is a common thing for you to say that you were tired which is why you "missed/forget" something. You have cried about this wolf many many times.

I'm not the GM here, so i rest my case as i have no power here. But honestly, I have seen this happen again and again.

[spiderwrangler]

X deleted. Seems I am too stupid to read. That must be it, yes. And I am a bad guy cause I don't read everything. I just wrote down the main reasons, but it seems nobody cares. Keep stabbing in my back then.
For other RL-problems people are all of a sudden very political correct care bears, but if I have one, well, let's kill his char and then blame him.

Before you started playing the martyr here, I've already edited it so that Hiero lives... and am working on a current update which will detail more stuff on what to do when real life gets in the way. If you get all bitchy about it, I may regret my decision. I don't view lack of paying attention to be a real life problem... if you are too tired or too busy to read what has been posted, then just wait to post until you have the time/energy. If you're too much in a rush to bother reading what has been posted, then I can guarantee that eventually you will end up blundering and killing off Hiero.

This serves as a final, final warning that your characters CAN die. Doesn't mean I'm trying to... but it can happen. I will be updating actions in the order that they happen, so do read what else has been done, as well as warnings or instructions I give you.

[Nerre]

Read the last post again, just edited it. It is not about playing the martyr or the game, it is about how people are treated over minor reasons. People had to wait on Alaen today, i did not want to make everybody wait till Monday morning german time.

[spiderwrangler]

i did not want to make everybody wait till Monday morning german time.

That part I appreciate, and if you read the updated post in the official thread, you'll see that for the near future, Hiero will be studying moss.

What I did not appreciate, and what resulted in my initial response, was that it seemed that you completely disregarded my request that we wait until Alaen had a chance to post. In the future, if the thread is currently locked pending an update from me, and you are about be be away from the computer, if you have an action you'd like Hiero to do, you may post it here, requesting that I add it in as his next set of actions.

Also not interested or looking for excuses, just for you to be more mindful in the future.

[spiderwrangler]

The following is in response to Nerre's edited post. Disregard if you don't care.

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DONE IS DONE. NO OTHER PLAYERS ARE TO PUBLICLY BAG ON NERRE, AND NERRE IS NOT TO POST FURTHER EXPLANATIONS (OR GO BACK AND EDIT) ON WHY HE MISSED READING ANY WARNINGS, OR COMPLAIN ABOUT BEING SET UPON.

It boils down to a player not reading/following my request to halt posting to allow another player to be involved, regardless of related excuses. My intent was to allow for inclusion of all players.

Nerre - you mentioned backstabbing, ganging up and people ruining your evening... and this was AFTER I reinstated your character. LET IT GO. You were the one who disregarded my warning to not post, and you found out the consequences. YOU did it, and it happened. Period. I admit I was pissed when I wrote the bit about the grue... that certainly wasn't part of any plan. The general consensus from other players was that it may be unexpected and harsh, but that you were warned. Afterward, I gave you the option to apologize to Alaen (which you only sort of did) for countermanding my request and posting out of turn , and to promise me that you would read more carefully (which I'm not sure you did) as conditions to reinstate your character. You seemed to be making strides towards this, so I moved forward and did so. Then you posted numerous times about how everyone is hard on you and how unfair life is. That stops.

BadgeAddict - I'd request that you kindly leave any required discipline to me. I know you remarked in your posts that you weren't the GM and that it wasn't your call, but calling for blood (or blud) doesn't build good will towards other players or characters.

If people really want to work to kill one another off, please to it within game and within character. If anyone steps outside the bounds of what I want, I'LL be the one to pass judgement.

THIS QUIBBLING DOES NOT MAKE FOR AN ENJOYABLE GAME.

I expect this to be the LAST time that this incident is mentioned. I MEAN IT. I REALLY MEAN IT.

If you choose to disregard, bad things happen. (See, I'm learning... I left it open ended this time.... )

[spiderwrangler]

On a MUCH lighter note, I thought I'd post in response to BA's question about 'training', especially since Nerre seems like he'll be on auto the next few days.

The system I have in mind is a special case of the CP/SP leveling system. There are two cases where it may be implemented.

The first is if a player is studying something alone, but not attempting any particular task. Since there is no task, the normal gaining of CP and SP does not apply. Instead, they will make a roll based on a new skill level, Learning in order to gain CP towards a goal of 10 CP. Upon obtaining 10 CP, they will gain 0.1 SP in the skill discipline they related to whatever they are studying, as well as 0.1 SP in Learning. The SP/CP ratio is reduced from the rate at which they can gain while completing a task (think book learning vs. hands on learning).

For example: Player B wants to study some moss, so rolls 1d3 (Learning Lvl 0) to accumulate CP, eventually resulting in a greater understanding of Botany.

The second case involving learning is if one player is helping train another player in a particular skill. The rate at which the trainee can learn will be accelerated compared to solo study, which is reflected in the training involving a Learning roll from the trainee, and a Teaching roll from the trainer. Upon completion of each training bout (10 CP), both parties gain 0.1 in the focal skill, and the trainer gains 0.1 SP in Teaching, and the trainee gains 0.1 SP in Learning. Because it's hard to teach someone else everything you know, players one level apart cannot train one another, players two levels apart get no bonus, players 3 levels apart get a 1 CP reduction, players 4 levels apart get a 2 CP reduction, etc.

For example: Player B is now accomplished in Botany, having achieved Botany Lvl 3 and also having trained enough other players to have Teaching Lvl 1 (1d4). Player C wishes to gain knowledge in Botany as well, as they are currently at Botany Lvl 0, but are an excellent learner at Learning Lvl 2 (1d6). Since the difference in their Botany levels is so large, and Player B is such an expert, they are able to bring Player C along more quickly. Instead of needing 10 CP, they only need to reach 9 CP (3 levels difference reduces CP by 1). Player B rolls based on their Teaching (1d4) and Player C rolls based on their Learning (1d6), and are able to reach 9 CP in one turn. Player B gains 0.1 SP Teaching and 0.1 SP Botany, while Player C gains 0.1 SP Learning and 0.1 SP Botany.

[BadgeAddict]

So. How would you categorize watching someone else work in an effort to learn? Without actually being actively taught.

[spiderwrangler]

That'd be an in between case, but I'd consider that solo study, but likely either with a lower CP, or a + modifier to Learning rolls to reflect that they are learning by watching an 'expert'.

[WearsHats]

What about working together on a project?

[spiderwrangler]

HA! I was gonna add that to the last post about watching, but figured I'd wait til someone asked... shoulda known it wouldn't take long.

If working together, you'd be able to use rolls from both players towards CP, but split the SP. While the reward won't be as great, you'll be able to accomplish the task much quicker. You will be able to apply a roll based on the highest skill level related to the task possessed by one of the players.

For example, Players D and E want to work on a task that is benefited by levels in Skills X, Y and Z. Player D has no levels in X, but is level 1 in Y and level 4 in Z. Player E has 3 levels in X, 1 in Y and 1 in Z.

Skill levels: X + Y + Z
Player D = 0 + 1d4 + 1d10
Player E = 1d8 + 1d4 + 1d4

Alone, player D would only be able to roll 1d4 +1d10 towards the task, and player E would only be able to roll 1d8 + 2d4. Together, they can use Player D's 1d10 from Skill Z, and Player E's 1d8 from Skill X. Since they have the same skill level for Y, it doesn't matter which player's die is used, as they would be the same. The total roll would be 1d8 + 1d4 +1d10.

If instead of just D and E, if Player F was involved, who has no skill in X and Z, but has level 2 in Y, they would be able to use that players 1d6 for that Skill.

Upon completion of the task, SP is awarded in X, Y, and Z, divided evenly among players completing the task.

[WearsHats]

So that doesn't count as hands-on teaching?

[spiderwrangler]

So that doesn't count as hands-on teaching?

In what way? The SP/CP ratio for group projects would be the same as for solo projects.

Numbers are subject to change, but right now I have tasks as yielding 0.1 SP for every 1 CP required.

For attempting to just study something (not undertaking any task), it yields 0.1 SP for every 10 CP accumulated.

For example, if Gabe and Bunn work together on some project involving propellers and springs, their collaborative effort will teach Gabe more about Mechanical Potential Energy than if Gabe get's cornered in the toilet by Bunn and has to listen to a lecture on the power of springs. The toilet lecture would involve Teaching and Learning checks (and they'd have to be more levels apart), while working on a project together would apply both of their innate skills.

[WearsHats]

Player A has 4 levels in Whirlygigs. Player B has 0.

If A sits down to teach B about Whirlygigs without actually doing anything hands-on, A and B both gain a small amount of SP in Whirlygigs, A gets a little in Teaching, and B gets a little in Learning.

If A sits down with B to work on a joint Whirlygig project, they get more SP in Whirlygigs and they get the project done faster, but there's no Teaching or Learning.

What happens if A says "let me show you how Whirlygigs work; we will build one together"?

[spiderwrangler]

Player A has 4 levels in Whirlygigs. Player B has 0.

If A sits down to teach B about Whirlygigs without actually doing anything hands-on, A and B both gain a small amount of SP in Whirlygigs, A gets a little in Teaching, and B gets a little in Learning.

If A sits down with B to work on a joint Whirlygig project, they get more SP in Whirlygigs and they get the project done faster, but there's no Teaching or Learning.

What happens if A says "let me show you how Whirlygigs work; we will build one together"?

Hmmm.... I see. The project would likely take longer to complete, SP in Teaching and Learning would be gained, but at a higher ratio than straight teaching?

You guys have pushed beyond what I had thought out in advance, so some of this I'm working it out as you bring it up.

[spiderwrangler]

I think I'm going to drastically reduce the amount of CP needed during studying in order to make it less tedious. Also, if all players are engaged in crafting tasks or study, I can hit fast forward and do an update covering many turns... As things now stand, it would take way too long real time for Sam to study up on Locks enough to level ( average of 2 CP per turn, 10 CP per 0.1 SP, 5 SP per level would end up being ~250 turns of studying... ). I'm thinking of reducing it to 3 CP per 0.1 SP. This will make studying much more efficient, but still less so than what is achieved from untertaking tasks. Rankings will be reflected in the next GM update. Thanks for bearing with me as I work out the details....

[BadgeAddict]

A few thought as well as more questions. Hey...this is beta, you asked for it.

First training. I think it would make more sense that the teacher would gain 0 sp if they are only teaching unless they are also working with something.

Second, what about using tools during an attempt at learning. For instant in my most recent post. Sam is trying to use bunn's wire on the lock. Is this fluff or a CP aide?

[spiderwrangler]

I appreciate and welcome feedback, as I said, this is still being developed as well go. If teachers gain no SP, there is no incentive for them to spend their effort to teach. And AS a teacher, I can certainly say that needing to explain things to students gives me a better understanding of the topic than when I was a student. Perhaps something else needs to be modified to balance it out a bit though...

I've been wondering about aides to learning... tools, etc. would certainly fall within that. Should related skills impact study success? For example, Bunn knows a decent amount springs and other forms of stored energy, should that give him a bonus in his study of Sam's legs?

[spiderwrangler]

Ok, regarding using the right tools, etc.

In some instances, the proper tools/items will be absolutely required in order to succeed.

In some instances, the lack of the proper tools will affect the quality of the finished product. For example, if Ursula has access to a needle and thread, she might have been able to construct a more polished backpack. Given a variety of supplies and tools, tasks can be completed and things can be crafted that fall out on a spectrum.

In other instances, lack of the proper tools will just make something more difficult. This is reflected in the CP for the task. To use the current example, since Sam is just poking a bit of wire in the hole, the CP needed is rather high. If he modifies that wire (which I pretty strongly hinted that he would want to ), having better suited tools will reduce the CP needed.

[LAYF]

Hmm.. I like your advancement system... May I steal (and adjust) it for a future game of mine?

[spiderwrangler]

Hmm.. I like your advancement system... May I steal (and adjust) it for a future game of mine?

Absolutely! Can I call dibs on a spot?

[LAYF]

Hehe.. I don't like dibs. but a +10 to the roll seems fair

[spiderwrangler]

Either way, I'm sure I'll be reading it, whether as a player or observer.

I've taken to using Google Drive Apps to keep skill levels and inventory current, seems to work well since I can access it from anywhere. Update the inventories then cut and past with all the forum code right into the forum post. Use the spreadsheet for tracking stats, keeping tabs on SP gained, etc. Use Google Photos for posting my quick sketches. I'm sure there are dedicated gamemanaging systems out there, but this seems to suit my needs at the moment.

Oh, and this applies to everyone except LAYF and Alaen (cause Bunn is nekkid and August has an example pic), if the rest of you want to provide me some detail on your character's clothes, I can modify the inventories to reflect that since right now they are pretty generic (Gabe's Clothes, Ursula's Clothes, etc). I'm sure some of you did at one point, but I haven't gone back to check. Just a simple description to give it a bit more flavor.

@BadgeAddict - I was going to whip up a few quick sketches of what Sam's Clockwork Stilts might look like and run them by you so I can post something to give the others an idea what they look like. If you have any particular things in mind or guidance on that, let me know, otherwise I might throw together a few versions and check with you through PM which you'd like 'fleshed out' a bit more. Basically options I had i mind were clockwork versions of 'drywall stilts'

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,

or ones with articulated joints, more birdlike in design.

@Wears - I was picturing something similar to what your avatar has, with a small steam engine in the back with a drive band connecting it to he base of the propeller rotor... if that sounds reasonable to you, I can do a mock up of that as well. Had you given an example of what Gabe's cane would look like?

@nikohl - For Iris, I was imagining something similar to those wooden articulated figures that they use for posture drawings. Basically this, ballerina-ified..

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They are your character's belongings though, so give me feedback on what you had in mind!