DND Ashren OOC

[SGTdude]

I will admit that Tokryn has identity issues. As in: he is trying to find his.

He is a goblin, but he is trying to be not-a-monster. He is a paladin, but he has very little understanding of what that means beyond his own inclinations. So he is trying to do what he sees as best.

Im sorry i missed that you werent actually ditching the group quarg. I am honestly trying to work with everyone here while maintaining Tokryn's character. Also, I didnt figure we could just drive the cart off into the bushes and was planning on heading towards Pig Village, but Im down with going another direction.

You said you scouted up the path into the brush. I missed that part. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

[Quarg]

No, well...

Jacon, is the path through the woods open ( that is it is wide enough that there is a hole in the canopy allowing undergrowth to grow along the sides)
or closed (The trail is too narrow that there is no hole in the canopy and essentially it is narrowly passting between the trees?)

I was assuming the first, so she was going to just break under cover and parallel the path behind the undergrowth...If not she will adjust...but that is the current plan...

[Jacon]

The path is pretty narrow and the canopy covers overhead. The path is also not well made. It's almost like a large deer run.

[SGTdude]

Are we taking the path then? I thought it was too narrow for the cart. We could break down the roof and make it look more like a cart and less like a cage, but that may not help with the width of the cart. And Im gathering from the game that we just started the day when the game started, so its not like we need to make camp. Why not just head towards the village and then find a camp spot when it gets dark. Let me know what you guys want to do.

[Quarg]

I'm thinking we are talking something like this...

► Show Spoiler

which is just wide enough for the cart but not much more...

[Nerre]

A bit more gravel/mud instead of an overgrown path, but the rest of the forest is similar to what I imagined.

[SGTdude]

Well...


Im not down with stealing money, as tempting as that may be. And I dont really want to roll the dice on her stone and risk getting a curse. Shiro could be relaying folklore about witches that isn't necessarily true. But honestly I feel like his comments are one of those times where the DM is going "no, seriously, you dont want to do that."

So Im thinking we just move on. But I am going to hold off posting an action until others from the party do.

[SGTdude]

I dont mind double posting in here since nobody else is using it right now. I hope you guys are at least checking it.


I dont "dont like" kaliss. Kaliss pretty much insulted and threatened Tokryn before, so he is not exactly excited to be traveling with the troglodyte. Im sure that will change over time, but in terms of time we literally just broke out of slavery and are moving down the road. Tokryn honestly doesnt know who he can trust yet.

Im also not trying to avoid having our characters talk. We just havent fallen into a good rhythm of posting and getting updates yet. Sometimes Jacon will update when two of us post, sometimes he waits longer. I want everyone to have a chance to act, but I also like to keep things moving. So I am not sure how to fix this.

I am waiting at this point for an update from Jacon before I post again. Once he posts I will do my best to interact with everyone in the group.

[Jacon]

Update schedule, How do we want to do it. I can update almost every day when I have access to internet. But some people might not be able to post at that speed so I'll try to let everyone try to post before I make a update that moves the scene forward. I might still answer questions your pc says to npc and any information you might find while spotting, listening etc.

[SGTdude]

I will post as soon as I can today. Please don't update until I have had a chance to post, with everything I expect will soon happen.

[Nerre]

I would say once everybody posted and if not, once per day.

But since I am not online often on the weekend, I might miss things then, while others have even more time then. Hard to tell how to do it.

[SGTdude]

Yeah, I don't want the game to go slow, but everybody should get a chance to act. Maybe it can be more than one per day but it probably needs to be enough time for everyone to act.

[Jacon]

I can do small updates to clerify but I think i'll try to hold off on the party doing any big actions till everyone can post.

[SGTdude]

I had a thought about updates that I want to run by you Jacon. It is just my opinion.

And its a bit long. Sorry

I think it would be appropriate and good for you to post updates in response to individual actions as often as you want so long as it doesnt affect others.

By way of example, look at what Cade did. He premeditated to steal coins and then did so when they were put to the side. IC there really wasnt anything that another character could have done because they wouldn't have known he was planning to do so. So him getting a response from the GM on that would be good in my opinion.

In a larger context, I think if a character makes an action that can't really be blocked or addressed by another member of the group realistically, then it would be ok to get an official response to that posted action, even if those actions in turn somehow affect the whole group. I just think that everybody needs a chance to take actions on things that ARE available to the whole group. My example for this is how Kaliss has basically looted armor off a body twice now without being stopped. No one posted anything to try and stop him, but obviously removing armor from an individual takes enough time that someone else could act if they wanted to (instead of just standing there until they get a chance to post and are left to deal with the consequences of what happened because IRL they didnt have a chance to post).

I think this would give characters freedom to act in small ways without being stopped but in regards to larger things, everyone has a chance to do something before the act is considered official.

The only problem I see with this plan right now is that, if we do this as a group of players, we have to agree that no act is considered official until Jacon comments and we cant post things that dont give other players a chance to act. Using Kaliss as an example again: Nerre wouldnt be able to post that he looted armor off a guy and then put that armor on as well without a response from Jacon because it assumes that everyone just stood around and watched as he took armor off a guy (in real life I am sure it could not be done in less than 60 seconds) and then watched again while he put said armor on. Maybe everyone would stand by and do nothing in that example, but my point is that a player should have a chance to respond instead of basically being told "this is what happened because a player said so and you can't do anything about it", because that isn't really fair when it comes to significant actions

(Disclaimer: I do not care about the armor. It just makes for a good example of the point)

[Nerre]

I didn't assume it as given, I also had a backup plan like Kaliss objecting to the objection like "Do you want to fight me over it, as it is a tradition in my tribe? I would have to accept it, but I fear this might get between us, however the result might be."

Bascially this is the old problem of post order vs what is tactically/teamwork-like the best vs roleplay. Pick two of those three, but you won't be able to get up a got system that has everything. In Cavemen the post order is not that important, as we often do retroactive stuff. Threads of reality is maybe the closest to having all three, but even here we only reach the tactically/teamwork part without sacrificing the roleplay cause we talk a lot about it in the OOC thread. Also, there we too squeeze in things before the actions of other so it makes sense in the end, so you can say roleplay > tactic/teamwork > post order for that game, even if the first ones are nearly on the same level.

On the one hand it is okay to take back some actions if the get in the way for everybody, which is why you shouldn't put too much effort in posts for which this might happen (this is why my post was not very long). Else too much roleplay might go to waste, or the second option, the action would not be undone out of respect for the good roleplay, but the group might suffer. Both are no good options.

So in short: make it simple if it might collide (or at least condition it so others can rewrite/adapt it without changing your intention).

[SGTdude]

I want to say outright I am not trying to argue about armor. I dont care who ninja-loots what, for now. I am just trying find a solution for all of us.

So in short: make it simple if it might collide (or at least condition it so others can rewrite/adapt it without changing your intention).

In general I agree with your post Nerre, but I feel like it is necessary to make one point in general (this is not going after you, Im just using your action as an example):
Your post may not have been long Nerre, but you disrobed a man, and then donned his armor, and put the armor you used to be wearing all in the same post. You should have broken that up into at least two posts so others have the chance to act.

If anybody posts their character doing a list of actions when they are around others, they are effectively denying other characters a chance to act. Or you force them to post retro-actively which is just confusing. While the example I used was ninja looting (which is something I dont really approve of), it applies to any action that can in any way affect other players. All of this is just my opinion and I defer to the general consensus of the group as a whole and whatever Jacon decides.

I just want everyone to have a fair chance to act and respond in the game.

[Nerre]

I conditioned things and I will keep it this way, cause splitting it up and waiting in my experience only led to getting overridden or not being able to do all those things. Some do longer, some shorter actions. I think I put much over a dozen ifs in my post. Over time the group will get a feeling for the length of things to do in one action, and if not, you still can condition things with if so the GM can cut your action whenever it seems to long. Also, sometimes I put pauses in a dialogue or between actions to give others chances to squeeze their response and actions in. Not every time, but often enough.

Also, a long list does not automatically deny others a chance to act. You still can squeeze yourself in, or just put up a veto if somebody just went on without asking everybody for an ok, like you did with Tokryn in the beginning by capturing him and promising not to get hurt (I initially thought we were playing an evil group acting kind of good, else I might have come up with a less aggressive and bloodthirsty char). Or think about our rogue stealing the gold. Some decided to react to it, so he went not unseen like he wrote (I think he wrote only try to do it unseen). If one does not condition it, you still got a veto right. I prefer sorting it out if it happens to discussing a lot about if and then in advance most of the time.
For example: Kaliss would think about or argue about the armor being the witch's loot and he took it from her, or if she left it and gave up her right on it.
I would not have had a problem if somebody had said "He, you don't really want to strip that corpse of it's armor, don't you? The witch killed it." I often put arguments my char could bring up into my posts as his thoughts, so you might see what I see as his motivation for the action or answers to possible questions. Makes it easier for others.

You can also tell us parts of your plans or the basic idea in the OOC, so we can respect them without having to step back from our actions and cutting our posts short. It might be a bit less exciting to know about them in advance, but if it helps to work together better, I am willing to give up some excitement.

[Jacon]

Um, I kinda briefed over what you guys said and I think the solution is fairly simple. I don't care if I have to backtrak to keep up with people posts about actions. I'm just looking to go quickly through the minor actions ( looting etc.) so we can get on with bigger stuff. Of course if something minor affects another character in a way I could not guess than I simply use the next update to correct this or edit. Whatever works.

It comes down to this. Either I can update minor stuff before everyone posts and edit where I need to or I have to wait till everyone posts.

Also. I meant for Kaliss to be in the process of taking off the armor but due to how I worded it I made sound like he had already looted it.

[SGTdude]

Im ok with minor updates along the way. To me, it just helps if you comment on stuff happening because then I know for sure what officially happened vs what we intended to have happen.

[Nerre]

Ok. Actually Kaliss also took the sword, not only the armor. Or at least tried. So if we set camp now, I guess he managed both, especially as grabbing a sword and a sheat for it is quicker than undressing an armored human.

Edit. Just read Adrena took it. Hm. I expected the fast sword-grabbing being long done before the long armor-undressing.

[Jacon]

Eh, You didn't say what you looted first so Adrena can claim the sword first as you take the armor if thats what she wants. If she doesn't you'll get the sword unless someone else lies claim to it which I doubt.

[Nerre]

Thought it did work even if the sword was not mentioned in this update:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 125#p89190
but only one later.
I did not even see Quarg writing anything like her taking it, only looking at it for the poison analysis here:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 125#p89212

The problem with this is not Kaliss not getting to sword (I could live with that), but that I only made Kaliss putting his rusty one away cause I thought he had the new sword. Without that, he would not have given up the rusty one, which Tokryn now wants to give to the human. So not getting the new sword basically kills the current story arc, as Kaliss still would have the rusty one. Let alone him objecting to Adrena taking it without at least asking (or some other roleplay about his stupid strength tradition).

So what do we do?

[Jacon]

It's late so i'm going to sleep but I made mistake and your right. I did make a update in which you claim the sword so I guess you can keep it. it's easy for me to sometimes forget smaller details like that and if don't see it on my reread than some confusion can happen in later turns. to avoid further confusion I will simply wait till everyone or a large majority posts in reasonable amount of time. ( two days about.) before I give out the loot. This should give a chance to avoid ninja looting so everyone gets a good amount of time to discuss who gets what.

[Nerre]

Okay, sorry for the chaos. Have a good night.

[Quarg]

Well wait...I recall
"Adrena Looks about the body and picks up the mans longsword which unlike the other swords is not rusty. She tries to figure out what kind of poison was used. Kaliss aids her by casting detect poison. Through magic he knows that it was spider venom that finished this sod off"

Which is why I thought I had the sword...damn...