DND Ashren OOC

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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:06 pm

I would strongly recommend against fighting shiro.

I wounldn't interfere if you fought him one on one, which means if he kills you....well then you be dead. If the reverse happened, I would not try to stop it either. Although I would probably at least give him his mace back so it was a halfway fair fight.



In regards to your "solution": Im sorry but no.

You dont get to script the actions of an NPC and myself. Here is a better solution: You play your character. I will play mine. Jacon will play his.

Shiro left. Deal with it. Or attack him and roll the dice on dying. But lets get off this Shiro crap before it ruins the game please.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Jacon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:14 pm

Yea i'm against having some post actions for other characters. Especially since Shiro has nothing but dislike for you.

Here are the options.

I edit, Shiro leaves quietly without to much insult to Kaliss.

2 You challenge Shiro to a one on one fight.

3 Kaliss swallows his pride and lets Shiro go.

Their are other options of course but these are the most obvious.

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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:36 pm

Jacon if you choose option 1 I would still like to have the amulet thing happen just as a demonstration of Tokryn's character to Shiro. But we could have done that during the private convo at the cart, or even not do it at all if you so choose.

I am fine with option 2. I will throw the mace to Shiro so he can have a fair fight, but I will otherwise completely stay out of it.

I dont expect option 3 to happen, but it would be nice. And its not like option 3 means "fuck nerre, yay everybody else". There is still alot of in-party crap to deal with and Im willing to make some compromises to resolve things if we can just get past this shiro crap.

Anyways thats my votes, if we get votes. I would like to see how others vote on this too.


I wish I had just killed Shiro and avoided all this crap and I am sorry I didnt in spite of how much I wanted him to hang around.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Quarg » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:18 pm

First, just the mix of characters and then Shiro being the slaver has been a problem. It would have been a little easier if Shiro had been more of a semi-willing guard leader rather than the slaver himself.

IC: Adreana is going to see going to the same place as two separate parties a bad idea. Which it is tactically...

And the rest of these arguments are really secondary because the characters are coming at this from two distinct positions as well as the players themselves which is why I think removing Shiro is like removing the detonator....after the bomb has gone off...
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:21 pm

Well I figured we were going to not go to the safehouse now. But still... your post is frikin great.


Ps - Tokryn will ask Adrena about "Tellers" later because he isn't that kind of goblin and his clan has no such stupid tradition; they are more like semi-civilized goblins out of the monster manual in my opinion. But if thats really not accurate for Jacon's world I will go with whatever he says.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Nerre » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:05 am

Quarg wrote:First, just the mix of characters and then Shiro being the slaver has been a problem. It would have been a little easier if Shiro had been more of a semi-willing guard leader rather than the slaver himself.

And the rest of these arguments are really secondary because the characters are coming at this from two distinct positions as well as the players themselves which is why I think removing Shiro is like removing the detonator....after the bomb has gone off...
Yes, removing him won't help. The damage is done. Which is why I used him in my solution, it needs all three of us, not only the two player chars. Kaliss would not attack Tokryen. He maybe was too trusting in Kaliss eyes, but the main problem is between him and Shiro, not Tokryen.
Shiro left. Deal with it. Or attack him and roll the dice on dying. But lets get off this Shiro crap before it ruins the game please.
It already has ruined the game, at least for me, which is why I tried to sort it out by writing all that. I cannot deal with it, as it breaks my char and the group.
Here is a better solution: You play your character. I will play mine. Jacon will play his.
You might call it many things, but not a solution.
It was a suggestion, and I would only invest more time if I was sure it would get sorted out soon and in a way that resulted in friendship, not merely accepting each other.
I wasted more hours into OOC dicussions than I played the game, much more, like 2 or 3 times. And it was no fun at all, it was only arguing. I want to have fun in a game so, I won't continue it like this. I liked the char and put much thought in it. Okay, SGT and I created chars that did not get well together, but it could have if he had not played him as stubborn as a rock, not backing up or giving in even one inch. I tried hard to change my design for Kaliss, but you even used my attempts to get it sorted out against him, making it worse. And Jacon's NPC even added to that, he also did nothing to defuse the situation, he made it worse and rid me of many ways to get it solved, by being a slaver and insulting my char all the time, making fun out of him. A GM should not do that.

Jacon, I know you are a nice player from my CotG and a good GM from The New Goblin Warriors, which I enjoy a lot. People played together, discussed tactics, and it worked. But here Id did not see everybody working together, some were just doing there own thing. I hoped this game would become similar to TNGW. There also were situations which weren't clear, but not as unclear as Shiro's role in here. He just did not make sense from the start. First a slaver, then suddenly supposed to be our best friend and helper? Your way playing him did not help at all, and I wished we would have just killed that char when we still could. He made me start to not enjoy the game right after the aftermath of the first battle, which is the last that should happen to a player, as we are here to have fun together. Not to prove anything. The game stressed me out more than all my RL problems together.

SGTdude, if you play your char so strictly against one player, not giving in a bit to solve things, then they won't get solved. Don't expect others to solve things for you, both IC than OOC. There is no problem in letting two chars argue or even fight each other, but then both parties should equally distribute to sort it out. I did see nothing from you than saying that we have to sort it out, but no idea how or action to actually do it. I wrote my fingers bloody and made my brain smoke but you accept none of what I suggested, and came up with nothing yourself, except the "let them fight it out".

I cannot work with this, and I honestly don't want anymore. Why can't nobody give in even a little bit? Does it hurt? Maybe ones pride and ego, but nothing more. In the end all can enjoy the game again. I changed the way my char acted a lot and relinquish as much I could, and nothing came back. Nothing! No compromise, no solution. It could have been so easy to solve this in a nice way together, but no, let's all continue to be stubborn and agresive at each other. I did not want to play your chars, I just tried to sort this situation out by making an example that might have worked. This is why I asked "if everybody would be cool with that". You decided against it. Fine, this is your right. But if both of you don't want to take even one step back, then I won't take any more forward. I tried hard to deescalate this, but it was you who did not allow it to work.

Quarg, last but not least, thank you for playing the only char from which I got a positive feedback. I really enjoyed your last post. It was nice and very diplomatic, as much as I hoped my suggestion in here would be.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Jacon » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:46 am

Perhaps I do not have the capability to gming a post by post game cause I simply do not know how to resolve this issue. Apparently removing Shiro loudly or quietly does not work. Nerras solution breaks basic rping etiquette which is not to play other peoples characters. Perhaps if it had been written co-op with SGT than it could have been used. But it wasn't. Perhaps Nerras right and I played Shiro with to much mixed messages being sent out. He was character I had to make due to him surviving and I wanted to try and create someone somewhat interesting to accompany the group until they reach the village. Obviously that hasn't worked out.

Nerra don't get all huffy cause we didn't like your solution. You said it yourself it was a suggestion and we have the right to say no. I'm sorry you wasted your time making it and I would give control of Shiro but like I said you have to write co-op with SGT.

Maybe Shiro should just die of a heart attack.

I'm not gonna update right away. This demands time to think this out.

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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Nerre » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:14 am

Be asured I am not huffy, and that you have the capability. Don't make yourself smaller than you are. ;)

Maybe SGT could think about changing the parts his char said so it suits him and the words come from him but with the same message, then it would not be me playing his char. This is how the suggestion was intended, although I obviously did not make it clear enough. I know you don't put words in other chars mouth, but you can make suggestions to their players if they are stuck.

On the other hand we already moved on in the game thread, so maybe it is too late for the solition, althought we could use parts of it (without the battle, only from the talking after it). Letting Adrena successfully call Shiro back might work, he should not be that quick with the cart and some people loading stuff on it or off it first. Carts normally move with walking speed or slower, only can carry much more.
I already wrote a few lines you can use to let him react on, which are as little hostile than possible in the current situation, and which also show some of Kaliss feelings and the problems with Shiro, on top of what Adrena already explained, so he might be able to understand the problem better - or see them if he has not already.
You could also make him explain he only moved the slaves, and was not actually the one who caught us. Then he would only be a slave transport, which is far better than an enslaver. That might help. Beside maybe excusing for defiling Kaliss traditions, culture, race and god with his words.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:29 am

You are a good gm. This is just a screwed up situation.

My only recommendation is to have shiro promise to not go to the safehouse and then we could go there. Or we could decide to go to pig village and skip the safehouse since shiro already said we could get gear there.

Plz don't quit this game jacon.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:43 am

Also, shiro didn't take the cart. He only took the donkey. Thats why I was going to pull it.

No one has lost any of their precious treasure.


Ps - do theis and bob have any thoughts on this?
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Nerre » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:45 am

SGTdude wrote:Also, shiro didn't take the cart. He only took the donkey. Thats why I was going to pull it.
Oh, I missed that. Thought he took it. Not the items, only the cart.
Last edited by Nerre on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Quarg » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:32 am

I don't think Mister Mule is that fast either...no mule I've lead has been that speedy unless there was something trying to eat it behind it...
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:04 am

He didn't get away yet but its not like we got to go to the safehouse. The hammer amulet will get us gear in pig village. Why don't we just press on?

I'm sure at this point jacon would consider going "and you make it there unevetfully."

Or kaliss and shiro can fight.

Its gonna take time for tokryn and kaliss to come together and nothing can really change that short of either of us changing the character just to suit the other, which isn't fair.

Tokryn is working through some deep stuff I have alluded to IC but I feel like we can get through this if we eliminate the shiro problem.

One last IC argument: shiro lost his men, his chance to sell slaves, his gear, his money, his dignity cuz he was captured, and nearly his life helping people that wanted to kill him. There is NOTHING to be gained by killing him or involving him any further. Just let him go and lets move on.

Please.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:51 am

In the interest of helping to save this game I am dropping out of it.

Even I have to admit that the character I came up with has presented more obstacles than solutions so far in the game. I had hoped we would work the kinks out and I would be able to move forward and develop this character, but its not worth doing at the expense of others' ability to play the game.

I have adjusted my last IC post to make it easier to write Tokryn out of the group. Whether I come back in with another character or not is up to you guys, but Tokryn needs to go for the group to function well. So he's out. Please do not comment here or pm me to persuade me otherwise. Its done, so move on and keep this awesome game going.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Quarg » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:26 am

Your choice...a bit annoying but your choice...
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:07 am

How this game turned into a constant interparty fight is annoying. For proof see also: dm who is considering quitting.

I provided the cleanest realistic solution cuz tokryn was already wondering about splitting. I may rejoin later if allowed but the group needs to get its collective crap together first. IMHO
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Quarg » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:00 pm

Well my posting may become erratic as I am TDY...
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Nerre » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:55 am

Quarg wrote:Your choice...a bit annoying but your choice...
Yes, Quarg, it is really annoying. Not just a bit.

@SGTdude, you did not move a bit to make it work, and started much of the constant inner party fighting and even managed to turn it into OOC arguing, not just IC. You even contradict your previous post, where you confesed your char did bring more obstacles than solutions for the game. Now selling your char leaving the group as the only realistic solution, is just rude after towardw the other players and the GM, after refusing every other solution offered. There were a lot of diplomatic ones, which would have allowed everybody or at least your char to stay in. You made everybody put much more work and time in this than most wanted, most of it OOC, and then you did not really react on anything, and just kept following your line and repeating it. Leaving after this, is like a slap in the face for anybody who tried to solve it, for their time and effort. You just threw it all away, like those efforts were worth nothing. If you leave like this, with such words, blaming all but yourself, then I am against you rejoining this after the group does "get its collective crap together".

Maybe you should get your crap together, not the rest group. You make it sound like it is anybodies fault but yours. It is no coincidence nearly the same thing happened in Thread of Reality when you joined. Get real and accept you were part of the problem, so it is also your job to be part of the solution. Just quitting and leaving is NOT being part of the solution. If you want to play with a group, you should do it, and not play like you want and expect the others to follow. And I am also sick of reading all this OOC in both games, I am not an adult mans game babysitter and tutor.

I wish I could get back all the wasted hours of my live I wasted on this (not the game, the discussing, trying to sort it out, etc.). It weren't just a few.

@Quarg: What is TDY?

@Others: I really hope we can play now and have some fun again, which we lost right after the first battle when the discussions started.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Jacon » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:38 pm

I'm not quitting, I never said I was. I put some thought into it, reread your guy's post, worked for the last four days without internet and returned to find new posts that I had to read. I was wrong in my phasing to say I wasn't capable of running a game. I ran Goblin warriors which combat system I had to adept from lonestars old rules and that game ran for quite a long time. What i'm not so good at dealing with is problem players. All my gaming in RL is done with friends who's best example of how dnd is run comes from me. They follow my lead and generally don't argue which leads to my lack of experience in these issues. Online it's different, it's not face to face and I deal with new and different people. I can't explain everything they'd like to know in the time they'd like to know. I make some very obvious mistakes. Looking through I no longer count Shiro as a mistake. He was just a trigger for something that was gonna happen eventually. Perhaps he prodded it more than he should but the end it came down to two players not getting along and being unable to find a compramise.

Hindsight is 20/20. Had I been able to see this perhaps I could have sent out pms asking you guys to come out with a scenenrio in which you could resolve your issues and than played that out. I look at the arguement and I see Tokryn make a suggestion. Kaliss gets angry about suggestion and Tokryn reacts back angrily. All done in the name of roleplaying but neither side is having fun.

I'm running out of minutes at the libiray so i'm gonna try and sum this up.

SGT stepped down which i'm fine with. Like Quarg said annoying but salavagable. Nerra responded with a bitchslap to SGT. Even when someones stepping down he can't accept that and instead writes long paragraphs which I have to shift through calling SGT rude and to get his crap together. Nerra you are waaaay to aggressive both with your rping and your Ooc. That final post does not bode well with me on how you get along with people you have disagreements with. I'm tempted to say your both out until further notice.

I actually wanna hear from both of you before I make that offical and Quarg to if he wants to get involved. ( I would not blame if you didn't.) I'm still thinking on this. I'm a slow thinker and perhaps this is not the right course but it's the way i'm leaning currently.
Last edited by Jacon on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:27 pm

I'm sorry for being agressive. I tried not to be but I knew I wasn't innocent. I am sorry for arguing and am willing to adjust to make a paladin fit in this group.

I stepped down to save the game. I even have said that I will have tokryn kill shiro right now (which is against his character and will reduce his class to a fighter) if it will get the game on course.

But I agree the problem is between tokryn and kaliss. Tokryn views him as a violent and demanding monster whereas he himself, though a goblin, aspires to be more humane. As best as I can understand, the only thing Kaliss will respect is strongarm tactics and violence.

I stepped down to save the game. I will do whatever is asked at this point to keep the game running, even though it might mean banning me from it. This is a good game and deserves to be saved.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Jacon » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:47 pm

While walking in the cold to see the superbowl game I gave this some more thought. I think the other solution is for your characters to apologize to each other, than adjust and be more careful with your characters so you guys don't walk on each other toes. If nothing else it forces you characters to have a conversation that isn't negative. How you apologize is up to you. Perhaps you releaze some moral mistake on your part, perhaps you think that your god/mentor would not look kindly on your actions. Perhaps it's nothing more than a interest in survival through numbers. Or perhaps that doesn't work for you and your back to solution one.

Regardless, Shiro will move on at some near point.
Last edited by Jacon on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by SGTdude » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:13 pm

I'm willing to do that. I drafted a private action to you jacon where tokryn walked off to have a moment to himself. But then I figured that wouldn't fix it and decided to leave.

I will re-adjust my original IC post back to reflect this by tomorrow(done) and write the apology as occuring after his moment in the woods. I will pm you details(also done) on the private action.

I cant wont apologize for tokryn being a paladin but I will try to make him fit in the group. Constructive criticism to that end is appreciated.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Quarg » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:10 pm

First, Jacon, this is a graduate level course in group management.
You have at least three, if not more, cultural backgrounds in the group,
And at least one who is not a native English speaker...

And I viewed the whole situation's prior resolution as bit self defeating...which is what I found annoying,
but I was not going to belabor the point. I've been so frustrated myself at times that throwing in the towel seemed the only option.
It was not ment to be a condemnation on anyone.

Now then, we are the authors of this story...and to put some cohesion to this group we need to have some moment of insight for our characters
but to give insight to our characters we must give insight to ourselves as the authors behind our characters.

So I suggest, bowing to our DM to provide the following:
Adrena obviously thinks that her proper place is protecting her Kin and Clan. However she looks on all but Shiro in the group as equals (of varying skills etc, but equals). Shiro she regards as former enemy turned mercenary to Tokryn. She is also seriously worried that Tokryn is proving to be very strong willed and very uncompromising. She thinks she knows what Cade is, and is still somewhat confused about Kaliss, and is not quite sure that there is really anyone home when it comes to him. As to the current situation per my last post she feels it its imperative to have a discussion with Tokryn.

Edit: She is also not above utilizing a reputation of inflicting horrors upon her enemies to manipulate them. Nor those she considers beneath contempt. Which is why she is fully capable of threatening tourcher rather than inflicting it.
Last edited by Quarg on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Jacon » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:19 pm

I agree with most of your points, i'm not quite sure what you want me to "provide" however. Do you want me to write how Shiro feels about the group so far?

REgardless, I would rather play with both of you than just one of you and give this game some devlopement. Please think about what is fun in rping, interaction, If you interact with each other in a positive manner it'll help. Even if It feels force it will help develope you a little so that further interactions won't seem so forced. so let's avoid conflict amongst eachother until we feel we can handle it. On my hand I will try to provide situations that are not only fun but have some basis in your character ( Adrenas family, Tokryns morals, Kaliss god etc.) and less situations that bring conflict between characters.

( Also provide for info but no promises. That shit is hard.)

Also just so you can breath easier and maybe help settle things. Shiro does not intend to betray you, nor does he have the resources in pig village to betray you. I won't go further in the future with his actions but for now, he's only interested in making it out of the woods alive.

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Re: DND Ashren OOC

Post by Quarg » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:48 pm

No, really want I want to avoid Jacon is anymore traipsing into anymore character clay mores between the players. The fact is that a good deal of what has happened between the characters has been farcical (in that it was the worst outcome possible) because the authors made dialog choices that speared other character's issue points precisely. So I am trying to make us (the authors) aware so that the guiding hand of fate, keeps our character's from sticking their boots in other character's mouths.

Shiro is less of a concern at the moment...
Both Tokryn and Kaliss have a much deeper characterization that I'd like to get a handle on...
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