Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Home to all current Forum Games.
Post Reply
User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:32 am

I have created this thread for discussion of items pertaining to ToIR.

I will not discuss the game, specifically regarding what is possible and what is not possible or the possible rewards/penalties, because that would basically ruin the game.

I do have a specific end in mind for the game, and at the time of this writing that end is actually achievable, but I dont suppose the players will....cause it to happen.

I am considering allowing very basic classes/characters in The Game but two things should be understood: 1) inclusion will be based on activity in The Game and 2) there is minimal guarantee that things would work the are expected to and maximum guarantee that any attempts to twink or break The Game would be quickly put down.


I am also willing to consider a visual element to the game because I think it could add to the hilarity, but Im really not much of an artist so that would slow down the interchange between DM and players, and there already seems to be a slowness there.

I will say one thing about ToIR - Death: its not personal. I set The Game originally at a number I figured was high enough and then included the death rule for, among other reasons, the opportunity of other players who are watching to take part and not have The Game just be for the same 7 people and that is it. I could possibly run a 2nd The Game if there was enough interest and add significant lenience regarding death, but that seems less funny to me.


Nonetheless I will hear and respond to (maybe/maybe not) any thoughts or ideas presented by anyone player or not.

Thanks
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:33 pm

Ok three thoughts on the table, which I would like to hear input on from anyone who has played the game thus far:

1) increasing the player cap
2) adding classes / abilities in some form
3) adding some visual element (I have one idea so far)


Any other feedback about the game is welcomed.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

User avatar
Quarg
.
Posts: 5400

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by Quarg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:01 am

No thoughts on the subject but this
► Show Spoiler
Really...why are you reading this?

Eileen Ap'Fyretorr

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:24 am

See?

Now that is the kind of stuff I am looking for. But in the actual thread as opposed to the OOC. This is for legitimate discussion of how I can improve The Game.


Or we could let it just fizzle out. I honestly thought it was at least a little amusing and entertaining. And I did have some reoccuring plot elements, but we havent gotten to those because everyone is still in the first room. But it seems like the interest in this one is fading due to its unconventional nature. I am holding off posting either until the rest of the group posts or enough people post in here either convincing me to keep going or let this die.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

nikohl
Discussion Moderator
Posts: 4575
Location: Ó▓á_Ó▓á

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by nikohl » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:33 am

I think it's a good little game - don't take my quitting as a sign that I don't think it's any good. I'm just not feeling it. I struggle to summon the appropriate level of randomness/enthusiasm.

Nerre
Game Master
Posts: 4876

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by Nerre » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:51 am

To me it often seems too random to get even a basic concept out of it except the randomness and arbitrariness. I just tried to play it safe, which worked so far, still it is a bit strange. Also the hard rules about the banning right from the beginning might have discouraged some people.
It's funny to read if you are not somebody who wants his char to survive and not suffer.
:zzz:

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:03 am

But nobody is really suffering.

I mean yes your character will die a, most often, amusing death. But no one is restricted from rejoining. So every player who rejoins gets to come right back, minus whatever gear his fellow players failed to loot off his corpse, and the only real loss is whatever buff or bonus they had before dying, which is randomly applied anyways meaning that they could come back with a more preferable bonus. The reason I implemented the ban rule was to keep those who are not playing from coming in and posting nonsense or anything that does not directly relate with The Game. But I can see how it comes off as hard.

I can see your point Nerre about randomness. But again, we are in the first room. Randomness can not be blamed for a lack of follow-through.

I have read other games. There are games which take literal real time months (as in more than 30 days) to have a simple conversation scene or one battle. This game updates much more frequently than those and has been going for less than a full week. For people to lose interest this fast makes me think there just isnt really appreciation for this kind of thing here.

But thats why I am asking for opinions on tweaks in case there is a way to make this work. Its a good game, but nobody is going to see that if it is allowed to progress at all. It does require a different sort of taste (like something more along the lines of Douglas Adams and Monty Python). But at this point I am as willing to keep it going as I am to shut it down: it is completely up to the players (both active and prospective)
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

User avatar
Quarg
.
Posts: 5400

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by Quarg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:15 am

SGTdude wrote:See?

Now that is the kind of stuff I am looking for. But in the actual thread as opposed to the OOC. This is for legitimate discussion of how I can improve The Game.


Or we could let it just fizzle out. I honestly thought it was at least a little amusing and entertaining. And I did have some reoccuring plot elements, but we havent gotten to those because everyone is still in the first room. But it seems like the interest in this one is fading due to its unconventional nature. I am holding off posting either until the rest of the group posts or enough people post in here either convincing me to keep going or let this die.
I found it an entertaining puzzle,

But perhaps it is just too freeform for the players to really excite any zaniness...

Actually the king for the hill had more zany player responses than this...
Really...why are you reading this?

Eileen Ap'Fyretorr

nikohl
Discussion Moderator
Posts: 4575
Location: Ó▓á_Ó▓á

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by nikohl » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:49 am

I really liked King of the Hill. I wore someone's ribcage as a hat in that game

This game, I dunno. I just don't know what to expect, and I don't know what to do. Plus, when I say I'm doing X and I end up doing Y, I sort of stare at the screen and say "Oh... Well, I'm not really needed here then, am I?"

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:02 am

I suppose that is a fair complaint. Although I dont feel like I am doing anything different from other games where you state an action and you get results in accordance with how the GM is running the game. The only difference is that instead of results matching some kind of obvious plot/pursuit of reward/obtaining of power the results are randomized for the sake of humor and entertainment. I mean if you want a game where you get to do what you want and have it turn out exactly as you hope/expect then go make your own game I guess.

As far as zany players, I was trying to free them from the responsibility of having to come up with zany responses, because honestly it is difficult to consistently come up with stuff that is ridiculous but not so much so that it invalidates anything that the players do. But that is the challenge I took on to make the setting. It is a setting that pretty much allows for characters to behave as though everything that is happening is normal, even though it is completely not, while maintaining a level of appropriateness for actions that, in other games, would be completely out of place.

I dont know King of the hill so I cant really comment on that.

I wish this had taken off more but maybe I should have discussed what was about to happen with potential players before starting. Or maybe I shouldn't have killed off so many people. Or maybe it was too much random (although this honestly would had made the mundane frikin hilarious).

At any rate, let me know if you guys want to restart this or just let it die.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

nikohl
Discussion Moderator
Posts: 4575
Location: Ó▓á_Ó▓á

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by nikohl » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:37 am

SGTdude wrote:I mean if you want a game where you get to do what you want and have it turn out exactly as you hope/expect then go make your own game I guess.
I did. It's called Cavemen, and it's exactly that. Say what you want to achieve and make it happen. The better you type it out, the more you're rewarded.

I just don't think I was expecting quite such Actual Randomness. I guess I should have got that from the title, but oh well. I figured it was a quick death game like the many Lemmings-esque ones we've had here before... Silly and unexpected, but not "roll a d100 - hey, now you're a sentient balloon!" level of random.

Oh and for reference, King of the Hill was just 'Take the hill from the player above you' - creativity without boundaries or a purpose beyond: IT'S MY HILL!

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:44 am

yeah i hadn't planned on using the whole sentient balloon thing, but that is a good one I will use if this ever gets going again.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

User avatar
Quarg
.
Posts: 5400

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by Quarg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:15 am

Hmm, well makes me want to restart the King of the Hill actually...
Really...why are you reading this?

Eileen Ap'Fyretorr

User avatar
ThroughTheWell
.
Posts: 1045

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by ThroughTheWell » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:58 pm

I watched Hats. I helped run Hats 2. I watched ... was it Warlock that ran the Dungeons of Death games (3 or so versions)? All 3 had humor. The latter had lots of player death. And all were more succesful than this game. Shoot, if you want a level of random, that is happening tin the Civ game right now, with its own level of success.

But they contrast with your game. No visual element. Really random, slap you in the face stuff as soon as the player does anything. I liked the starting condition, but after that, there was no context to even try to understand anything. If I play Paranoia, another game with lots of death and humor, I know to avoid security levels, avoid weapons, and weasle my way around orders in order to survive. But here it felt as if the GM is slapping the players while drunk. I'm telling you what it felt like just looking at it to see if I wanted to play. Now, if I knew the GM, got his sense of humor, shared common experiences of certain movies and video games, then maybe I could take a shot at doing something in this game. But without that, players get slapped too much, and too often, while not making understandable progress, and that, for most people, won't be fun. YMMV.

In Warlock's game you knew the odds were good you were going to die, but it was usauly at least partialy your fault, it still fit in the traped dungeon context and not surreal dream context, and the death was handled humorously. It was a shared story to see who could last longest.

In Hats, anything could happen, but players were heroes doing magical stuff with Hats. Yeah bad stuff could happen, and there might be a puzle, but it was not insoluble. Common sense still had a place.

Maybe I'm complaining about a level of randomness. Maybe it is how you framed the game. The Pylon drone game is evoking randomness from players, and same for the ODD threead. So, maybe it is the combo of random and death / slapping. People like for their actions and choices to matter.

Shoot, I even enjoyed reading about the multiple SOW game someon ran. Hard to get more random than d100.
I survived the forum move 4 times... yeah, I feel old.

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:45 am

Thanks TTW. I havent read any of those other games but this helps me see the game from the players perspective, instead of just my own. I was kind of going for Douglas Adams marries Monty Python and has a baby that looks something like Paranoia, but it didnt really work. I may try this again at some point but it clearly needs a bit more structure than I gave it.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

User avatar
thinkslogically
Game Master
Posts: 17223
Location: Florida

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:12 am

Totally agree with what TTW said - it's not so much about there being randomness, as about there being unfair, game-ending randomness. I'm assuming you didn't read Hats, but it was STUPID and also a lot of fun. The premise was for the players to find a special hat for the Hatmaster(?) but they were free to do pretty much anything they wanted and it all turned into a giant, sprawling, hilarious mess by the end. Unfortunately, it was Game Over when someone damaged a particular hat, which was placed as a reference to a world-ending hat from another webcomic (MSPA/Homespun I think). It was a giant WTF moment because very few players got the reference and the outcome was pretty badly received.

Anyway, as someone who's been living in the games forum since it was formed, I wanted to add a couple of other notes:
  • Everyone has a life outwith the forums which means as a GM you need to have a bit of patience. Even slow-paced games lose players through inactivity, so increasing that pace also puts increased pressure on the players. You'll usually have enthusiasm at the beginning because new games are especially exciting, but it will inevitably slow down and you need to not take that personally. Also, there's virtually no-one here at weekends so there's that. I went away for 5 days for work and in that time I appear to have missed your entire sign-up and play thread! There's a reason why most games have sign-ups open for around a week (even though it's sometimes hard to contain your excitement that long :)).
  • Image-based games always get more interest than text-based ones. It doesn't matter if the text-based one is amazing (they often are), but I think it's a TL;DR thing.
Regarding your game specifically:
  • I read your game AND the OOC thread, and I have no idea why it's game over. What actually happened?? Was it Nerre? Or the stuff Quarg said?
  • I think you might need to give a bit more back to the players. Ultimately when you make a game, you're making it for for your players and players need rewards (loot, levels and/or story progress). Make it challenging to achieve rewards, but don't punish them constantly for trying things out, and maybe give a couple more hints as to what you're expecting from them :)
  • What I read was pretty cool, and it was an interesting and original concept for these forums so yeah, I'd like to see you run something else if you're willing :)

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:01 pm

Thanks for the tips TL. I am considering restarting this or starting something that is muuuuch more structured and story oriented. I will definitely let you know.

By way of example on creativity, you can either see my thread in the recruitment section or...

I have a murder mystery which functions in a way, the likes of which, I have never seen done before.
Last edited by SGTdude on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

User avatar
BadgeAddict
Saves-A-Hyena
Posts: 9145
Location: Ohio

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by BadgeAddict » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:10 pm

I would like to say also, as someone who played your game. I thought it was fun, to a point. But as some of the others have said, it was perhaps..too random.

Aegis and his game of civ 4 is very random, but it also follows a set course of sorts. Although we never know what to expect from him, at the same time we do know what to expect from him.

So...perhaps if we separate this into two areas of though:
1. Foundation
Foundation is what we can expect to normally not change, this is core purpose or intent or direction of the game.
2. Everything else
Well, this is everything else, which is random, and changes at any given time.

I thought your game had plenty of 2. but barely any 1.

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:36 pm

Yeah I see that now BA. And that is the main reason I was content to let this current iteration die out rather than fixing it.

I am likely going to put more thought into my story-based idea before I try this again.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

nikohl
Discussion Moderator
Posts: 4575
Location: Ó▓á_Ó▓á

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by nikohl » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 pm

I really like the look of your slightly more traditional Goblins-esque game. I also like my grumpy teacher-priest character idea, and would like the chance to play it... *nudge, hint*

User avatar
SGTdude
Gives Speeches
Posts: 1116
UStream Username: SGTdude

Re: Thimble of Inordinate Randomness OOC

Post by SGTdude » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:08 pm

Well...

Here is the one hint I will give about that thread: you probably wont end up playing the character you describe because of the starting point I have in mind. And that goes for pretty much anybody. I asked for people to respond so I can get a sense of their creativity and writing. But that has nothing to do with this.


This is really closed at this point.
This user has been Banned. (link to the joke)

Post Reply