Cavemen: OOC

[GathersIngredients]

I hope it's okay, that I wanted to 'sneak' in this scene before life starts bustling in the tribe again. Min really couldn't handle another situation where everyone is staring at her in such a short time again. ^^*

@ burns: Min might get around to help Koael later. I just really would like to know how this scene with Muck plays out first.

[Nerre]

I got something planned with the clay, please leave it for Hitto.
Just in case somebody spotted in the list. Basic pottery we can do anyway, so nobody has to invent it.

[GathersIngredients]

I made a post to use up some of Durang's points, so they don't all go to waste. I'm assuming that building/crafting material is something that (almost) everyone in this tribe/game would welcome. (I know Yala wanted to get a tall rack, and with Boro's player logging in the last time in October, I doubt that he'd get it done for her any time soon.)

If anyone wants to use Durang for something else today, please go ahead, he doesn't have to work the young trees into poles, that's easily something someone else can do just as well.

[GathersIngredients]

@Badge: too bad that Min isn't back in the cave atm. She would have tried to help Yarl at the blinnk of an eye. She might have had a few choice words for Gereth for causing so much pain. Ah, well, probably better this way.

@ nikohl: Please don't worry too much. I'm well aware that planting/gardening is a long term project. On the other hand, I hope it won't eat up much time per day to keep it maintained. That way it can be some sort of 'side project'. It's not like we can help the plants grow, by spending a lot of time with them.

[Arch Lich Burns]

Well after the land is sorted out it will be easy to maintain, pull out what should not be there and water. Pulling out weeds should be done once a week, and watering every day or every other day.

[nikohl]

@ nikohl: Please don't worry too much. I'm well aware that planting/gardening is a long term project. On the other hand, I hope it won't eat up much time per day to keep it maintained. That way it can be some sort of 'side project'. It's not like we can help the plants grow, by spending a lot of time with them.

Well after the land is sorted out it will be easy to maintain, pull out what should not be there and water. Pulling out weeds should be done once a week, and watering every day or every other day.

Yeah - once the garden is up and running and you guys have spent your points and it's all working well, you won't have to spend more points on it and the watering and such can always be delegated to the rest of the tribe. However, the issue is that even if your first raspberries that you plant start to grow, according to google, they don't even fruit for the first year. So it's going to be a hell of a long term thing, given that it's been a couple of months to roleplay three days

[Mereneth]

posting soon. sorry for the delay, gathers!

[GathersIngredients]

Yeah - once the garden is up and running and you guys have spent your points and it's all working well, you won't have to spend more points on it and the watering and such can always be delegated to the rest of the tribe. However, the issue is that even if your first raspberries that you plant start to grow, according to google, they don't even fruit for the first year. So it's going to be a hell of a long term thing, given that it's been a couple of months to roleplay three days

Well, maybe at some point you'll be able (and willing) to shift gears and let time progress faster. I mean you (the GMs) meant for the game to allow the PCs and NPCs to procreate, after all. (Iirc, you explicitly posted the point cost for 'making a baby' ... ) Once the tribe has really settled in and the NPCs have learned enough that the tribe can be well fed, clothed and safe without the help of PCs, there would be not that much need to play as slow as there is now, unless some interesting event (migrating prey animal herds, new predators coming to the valley, flooding of the river, ... - the possibilities are sheer endless) is in progress.
But hey, it's your game, and so far it's awesome. I'm sure whatever you'll do it will turn out fine.

posting soon. sorry for the delay, gathers!

Please, no worries. Real life always comes first.
I'll gladly admit that I am a bit curious, though, and thusly looking forward to reading your post, whenever you get around to making it.

[BadgeAddict]

You hit the nail on the head Gathers. You just came to this place and are still exploring it and investigating every nook and cranny. Making the place safe and finding out where resources should be found etc is a big task and once that is more complete we might see time moving faster.

[SeeAMoose]

I'm sorry to bring this up again after so many weeks, but some weeks ago I was asked to post some information about Nerre's claims and accusations regarding Gathers and had been too busy to get to this before now. While I am in no position to comment on the goings on of this game, I do have a few things to say about the way Gathers has been treated and her position in this forum. Below, those who are interested can find pm's I sent Nerre regarding this situation. In most cases I wouldn't post these, but I feel that Nerre has made this sufficiently public to justify posting them. In the interest of keeping this from disrupting the thread I will spoiler the rest of this.

► Show Spoiler

First, I am only going to say this once, but Gathers will remain as a moderator. Nerre, or anyone else for that matter insisting that we need to strip Gathers of her moderator rights because of this disagreement is completely inappropriate. Yes, her section of the forum has become inactive, but that could change or she could accept an expanded role. Moreover, the status of her section of the forum has little to do with her remaining a moderator. Gathers is a moderator because she has proven to be a voice of reason in our discussions about problems within the moderator forum, something I do not want to lose. Nerre, continuing to lobby to have Gathers moderator permissions removed is completely inappropriate and it needs to stop.

Second, blaming the forum software for not automatically blocking a pm from a user on someone's block list is not an excuse for harassment. Saying that it is the forum's fault a message went through to someone who expressly asked to be left alone is laughable. As you are all aware, the forum's software is far from perfect and unfortunately there is little we can do to address many of the issues with it that pop up. However, this is a case where the forum's flaws were not the root cause, it was instead one individual's behavior.

As to the goings on of this game, I will leave that to the people running the game, but they have not indicated to me that they have any problems with Gathers's behavior. With regards to the disagreement between Gathers and Nerre, I have nothing to say other than that from what I have seen Gathers has done her best to minimize conflict between them and that her wishes not to be harassed should be honored.
PM's regarding this subject:

► Show Spoiler

Nerre,

It has recently come to my attention that another member of this forum has specifically requested that you not contact them, and yet you have continued to do so. Despite being blocked by this user you have requested other users to quote your posts specifically so that this user will see them, and have even sent them a PM recently knowing that they do not want to interact with you. Now, as I understand things, it seems as though you felt you were misunderstood somewhere along the line. Perhaps you are simply trying to correct that initial misunderstanding, but this has apparently been going on since the last forum so at this point it is borderline harassment.

This is a warning. You are not to attempt to send messages to GathersIngredients either directly or indirectly. This means that you are not to send any PM's to Gathers directly, nor are you to ask others to quote your posts for her to see. If people quote your posts on your own that's their own decision, but you are NOT allowed to ask them to do so. Gathers has been very clear about not wanting to see your messages and the way you have been acting in light of that is abusive.

If you send any more PM's to Gathers your PM privileges will be temporarily be revoked (continued abuse after that may result in a permanent loss of PM privileges). I have not yet decided what to do if you continue to ask people to quote your posts because my options are more limited and broader there. However, should you continue this behavior the only option that may be available to me would be to restrict your access to forums where the behavior is occurring.

You are welcome to respond to myself or any of the Global Mods or Admins.

Best,
Moose

Nerre,

I will respond to this more in depth later when I have the time and energy to do so, but I do have a couple of things to say now. First, if you want me to entertain your complaint you will need to provide evidence to support it. Second, despite what you told Burns (and at least one other person... which was grossly inappropriate), you are not at risk of being banned immediately. The only possible way you would be banned as a result of this is if you continue to PM Gathers and ask others to quote your messages (we will be making a forum wide rule about that in the near future). Even if you continue to bother Gathers you will not be immediately banned, you will first temporarily lose access to some privileges for a short time, then for a longer time, then permanently for those features, and only then if you continue to harass Gathers will you be banned from the forum. Now if you think you are incapable of stopping your current behavior then I suppose you will be banned, but as you note you are an adult, and should be mature enough to change your behavior.

Saying that you didn't know you were still on Gathers' ignore list is clearly deceptive because your other actions suggest that you very much did know you were on her ignore list and that she does not want to see your messages.

Blaming the forums programming is not an excuse. It does not currently support blocking PM's from people on the foe list. That does not excuse you purposefully sending her a message knowing full well that she does not want to see your messages. Reading your messages is stressful to her.

What happened on the last forum does not matter here, your current behavior is what is at issue. There is a very real difference between what you are doing and what Gathers is doing in response by blocking you. Gathers is passively blocking you because she finds interactions with you to be highly stressful, again that is not an insult, that is her choice and is one that must be respected. You on the other hand are actively trying to go around that barrier causing more stress for her. Your actions are the very definition of harassment. Now, if you want to provide hard evidence to support the claims you've made, then we can talk, but thus far the only thing I've seen is you trying to turn the blame for your actions onto the victim.

More to come later.

Moose

Again, my apologies for bring this up after so much time had passed, but I was asked for permission to post those pm's from the moderator forum and I simply didn't have time earlier. If there are any further in game issues, I recommend bringing them up with your GM's, they have good heads on their shoulders.

Best,
Moose

[Nerre]

Thanks for ruining my day this early! Really, Moose, this is sooo unnecessary. The argument has already died out over time and everybody forgot. I even tried to deal with being forced to read her story so mine does fit to what everybody writes. You didn't need to bring it up again. Why could you not just skip it if you had not time earlier?

Instead, I feel bashed again, thanks again for kicking me right in the face. A PM is a PM, and a right to not be harassed should count for everybody, but it does not, which is obvious to me by now, so spare me this topic please. I understood that I have less rights here, no need to rub it into my face any further. You don't even see my problem here, and all proof for it was lost with the old forum, where she by far did NOT do her best to minimize conflict but even started it. I should be the one blocking her, not the other way around. Ask those who were in the german translation back then (like Krulle) like I already said a few times, or just drop the cursed topic, which only discredits me.

Why can't you just let me enjoy this game or forum?

[Jacon]

Everyone Please don't stroke this fire again. It's not necessary at this time.

The only other thing i'd add is that if your having that much frustration with the community Nerra maybe you should take a break for a day or two. Taking a break always helps me deal with things like this.

[nikohl]

As a GM I'd like to request that we collectively let this thing go. Obviously I'm not saying don't bring up any grievances you all might have in the future, but as we as a group have moved past this particular incident, lets just get on with our game and our lives. Everything is going pretty smoothly in-game now and I think we should try and keep said balance

[Nerre]

Jacon, will Ajax be with Gereth during the mission? I am planning to let one event happen, which would be influenced by that.

[Jacon]

Yes, Ajax usually is near Gereth unless stated otherwise.

[SeeAMoose]

Sorry again for bringing it up after so long and disrupting the thread. To be honest I should have posted it some weeks ago when I was first asked... or two weeks ago when I was asked for a second time, but life was a bit too busy then. However, I felt I did have to make a response in light of the public lobbying to strip Gathers of her moderator status.

Nerre, I didn't post your PM's, and you've pretty much made the whole argument public which is the only reason I posted mine when asked. I'm not going to continue with this but I did need to make that post.

[Arch Lich Burns]

I now declare all npcs are now under the name of Bob. Even the females.

[nikohl]

All: As Borys hasn't been on the forums for months, Boro the Carpenter is now officially an NPC. He is not destined to die as we've not had word that Borys is actually quitting - he might return and tell us all his computer exploded or something. He's just now officially an NPC, and the same applies to him as did to Durang: You may spend his accrued points to have him do stuff. He has 25. When he runs out, he's just a skilled NPC that you must spend your own points on to command. He has tools, I will c/p in his equipment as I did with Durang and Ril.

If any lurkers want to join in and take over Boro, they are welcome - just say so.

[Nerre]

Vote to let him help Min with the frame to skin animals and dry leather. And maybe craft handles for some of the tools everybody build lately.
We also have to call him Bob now, cause of what Burns did declare.

[nikohl]

The frame is what Yala is having built, I spent for it already so there's no point spending more for Boro to help. Same for the tools, Durang has already spent points on that. There are lots of other things he can do though, and because he's got points, you guys can spend them to have him do things by himself. Unlike proper NPCs who you have to send your character over to ask/give directions, Boro can just be moved around by you all, as if you were him.

[Nerre]

I am currently thinking about letting him prepare something for the burial caves, but until the scout mission is over, I cannot do that. I was thinking about some native northern american wooden platforms, so the dead kind of mummify in the wind, rather than burying them underground or putting stones on them or setting them on fire. We could build that on top of the cave, and then carry them inside once they are properly mummified. So much about the burial tradition, which I imagined would fit to our nature related clan. Burning rather fits to those who fight much like vikings.
The deathwatch rite was already a very fine idea, so I would add some burial which also would fit to a clan believing in spirits.

As they are our dead, I would like the rest to kind of vote on that or give opinions, since I don't want to just decide on my own how we bury them by just writing and paying for it. What you think?

[BadgeAddict]

Nerre.... you do not have the ability to let him do anything. You are not a Gm. You may request that he do something, nothing else.

As for burying the dead. Proper cavemen would probably just throw their dead over the edge of the cliff and then using their bones for stuff, how do you think fengo gets all of his bones to do his mumbo jumbo with? However, since we are not such cold heartless beasts, I would suggest we find a place in which to set them. (ex: a place within a dry cave, etc).

Nerre, if you don't want to spend the points to bury her, then someone else will or a GM will, we haven't dictated another voting session and although its not a horrible idea, this isn't a voting game.

Please learn to word your sentences in a way that doesn't make it sound like you want to control the game. Thanks.

[Nerre]

Oh come on. What did I do now to get such a reproving response? I write enthusiastically about an idea, and bamm, right in the face.

Sure I ment requesting him to do something, that is why I wrote "I think", "I would" and "we could". Not "I will do" or "We should".
Sure I am no GM. With letting do it I ment going back and role asking him if he could do it (= requesting), which is why I wrote I cannot do it before I get back to the cave, where he might be right now.
Sure it is no voting game. But somehow I have to tell other my opinion. Hitto is not at the cave, so I wrote vote so if anybody wanted to do the frames, he would have know somebody too thought this is a good idea. I did miss they were already paid for and being done right now. I only thought it might be fair if everybody discussed it a bit instead of somebody just making a request and see what happens. Maybe more than one has a good idea, so I posted mine to get some feedback. My intention was as far from controlling the game as you can imagine. For playing together you need to communicate and exchange ideas or share them, which is what I did.
Sure I want to spend points. Why you now make it sound like I want to save my own points and use his instead for something Hitto should do? Nikohl wrote we can use his to do something useful, so I thought about what to do. Nothing more. On top of that I did not know you expected Hitto to do the burial. He is young, while others are older and more honored in the tribe, like the chief, Vera, Fengo and Gereth. As they held the death rite, I expected them to do it, and the rest of us only preparing it.

And if you don't want us to imagine things, then the hell explain us how you want us to do it, but don't let us post ideas and spend time being creative only to learn that is not the way to do it. You are giving out mixed signals here. You did not say "No, that is not the kind of burial rite that is right" when Fengo and Gereth did the death watch during the night and even wrote how much you loved that level of creativity. And now: "No, your idea sucks cause that is not the way it is done by cavemen".

How the hell did I end up again with getting my post interpreted so awful? It can not only be my wording. I wrote "I think" and "we could" often enough. Give me some credit, damn it! This just totally killed my enthusiasm and mood, and on top of that, hurt my feelings for how lowly you seem to think about me.

[BadgeAddict]

oh what have i done.
I'm tired and cranky from catching 2 mice at 3am instead of getting a full nights sleep. My apologies.

I am not trying to start something or put you down. or say your idea sucks. But based on how badly our attempt to get a tribe name "voted" on. It's probably better to not try to vote on things but to merely act.

[Nerre]

Thanks for making that clear.

About the tribe name: I saw a few suggestions, but it seemed the chief did not want to decide it yet, and wait until we settled there a bit more. How many name suggestions did you get so far?