Cavemen: OOC

[nikohl]

OOC Thread for Cavemen, officially starting 14th Oct - chat/plan/argue/dance in here to your heart's content

[BadgeAddict]

abbra cadabbra, post of requirements. "poof"

[Theis2]

Stab the mammoth!

It should the thread should have the star of recognition now for me now..

And I do like the way you avoided double posting in the thread for playing

[GathersIngredients]

Okies. I got a couple of questions (again ):

Can we please get the gender added into the starting post, where the chars are listed? For now, I know almost everyone is male, but the names aren't always that distinguished male or female that they allow classification. And if we get more players at a later point, it might become confusing.
Also, if we do the 'color of speech' thing, it might be a good idea to add that to the list, as well. (I still need to decide on a color for Min, will edit it in here when I have done so.)

Also, you wrote that

Each adult has a waterskin, the clothes theyÔÇÖre wearing, and a sling bag or 'backpack'

Do our chars count as adults, too? What I explicitly want to know is, if those items weren't part of the PM with our inventory that we got, does that mean we don't have e.g. a water skin?

You wrote that there are 5 children in the tribe. How many adults/elders are there? Or don't you want to define that, in case you need to 'invent' someone quickly?
What age is the chief?
Which leads me to: Can we please get a list of named NPCs, too? (Those that have been mentioned already, it doesn't need to be a complete list...) complete with name, gender, age and profession/interest at least.
Was Calix the name of the previous chief? No the last chief was Diran. Why was the tribe named Calix in the first place? That may be interesting to know for the naming suggestions...
If our tribe was going south most of the time and the cliff in the map is in the north, does that mean we came down the cliff?


@ Jacon: did you notice that we have a fire making kit with the tribe? You could have 'borrowed' that instead of the knife. But maybe you wanted to make one for yourself, anyways.
@ GMs: do we even know how to make any other kind of fire making system, but with flints? Just checking.

[nikohl]

Answers!

I will try and add more info to the list of characters when I'm not on my phone.

Yes you each have a waterskin and a rudimentary bag of some sorts which your belongings are in, I forgot to add those to your personal PMs so I put those in the equipment post. You will have basically grabbed what was close to you and/or important to you, which is why you only have a few items each - but I should think everyone owns their own water carrying item and considered it vital enough to grab in a hurry

There are 20 adults in the tribe, including all PCs and the Chief and his wife. (So seven extra - each armed as the Equipment post, though those items are shared where necessary - eg borrowing hammers). Elto is the only named NPC so far, even his wife is unnamed so far. This is so that if someone wants to join, they aren't stuck playing an NPC who already has a fixed name and job. For the sake of the game, the 7 NPC adults are capable of hunting, gathering, building etc but aren't noticeably skilled at any one thing. They just "are also there". We need to leave their ages and such things abstract too, in case of new players joining, but several of them are older. There are fewer women than men in total (mostly because of the PC gender balance of 7/3) No one extremely old or extremely young survived the journey: none of the children are babies.

Elto is only 19, a bit young for a chief but he only took over at the start of the journey when Diran sacrificed himself for the escape. Diran was 38, which was pretty old, but he was showing no real signs of being "very old" or frail. His wife looks about the same age, maybe a little younger. She is quiet and for the most part will remain in the village being generally helpful: she won't go on hunts or anything.

The tribe was called Calix as a placeholder name while we took votes/ideas from everyone to name it, but we only got two votes (one was 'no name') so we made it instead that a new name would be taken, created by the characters rather than the players. Calix has no real meaning or at least wasnt intended to.

Travelling south-ish, you happened across the valley, you came down a steep slope and into it at its south end, basically doubling back on yourselves a little bit, but on a lower level. Think of the journey as like a tick mark shape. Flee flee flee, oh what's this? A valley! A way down, here at this end! Let's go down into it. Etc. Does that make sense? I can try and draw it later if so.

As for firestarting: I gave you basic flint and stone as its durable and can't be done wrong or break or be used up, but I am sure as a tribe you have come up with ways of doing it using sticks and friction, and probably ways to make it quicker and easier (maybe not a firebow, but something similar, like what Gareth is doing. That is up to you to decide what way you want to do it, but essentially if it is a primitive way to start a fire you probably know it and can find the materials to do it. Especially the cook should know a few techniques

[Nerre]

I got a question.

Let's say I want to do a complex task, which costs 5 points, but I only earn 1 per turn. Do I have to pay the 5 every turn, or only once when I start the task? Just want to get a feeling of what we can afford.

[GathersIngredients]

Thanks.
I'm not yet sure about the how we came into the valley part, but if you are going to draw it (would be much appreciated, thank you kindly in advance), it will hopefully become clear.

I tried this color, #40BF40 for Min. Is it readable easily, or should I try something else?

[nikohl]

Nerre: about points, if you're doing a big long action in one go, you spend your X points to do it in your post. But, if it's an extended action (ie you're going to do many posts about it) you should then spend points to continue it each time you post - 1, 3, or 5 points depending on how much you think you are "achieving" with each post. Then you spend some more to finally succeed, say 5 or 10 if its a big thing.

Example: building a stone statue to honor the ancestors. You might spend 5 points all in one go to just put a stone on another stone in the shape of a person, and decorate it. Or you could spend one point to gather many stones, one point to seek clay as a mortar substance, three to stack the stones and stick them in place, three to carve the face, maybe then five to do the honouring ritual and leave some food with the statue as an offering or tribute. You see? It's up to you if you want to make things more detailed. It might cost you more points but we will award many more back at bonus point time, because you did a lot of effort. Plus each of those posts you made on the way to the end each get one back, to keep your supply going a little bit until the GMs award extra.

It might seem like you are running out of points but you gain them back for succeeding, and extra for the effort you put in to posting. Also you can do posts that don't need point spending (eg just living out your life, doing leisure activities, failing at your action instead of succeeding) to earn more.

I hope that makes sense.

Gathers: That green isn't too bright to read so if you want to use that one, go for it

[Borys]

Question:
If I want someone else to do something for me, success depends on this person, but point is spent anyway, right?

[nikohl]

An NPC, yes. But you are spending your points to ensure their success, same as how you spend your own. NPCs cost the 5 points for you to "direct" them, but they'll go do it. Unless it's really difficult, they won't fail because you spent your points. You can't direct a larger than 5pt action like that, because theyre not as skilled as you. But you can for example bring them on a hunt, or ask them to skin an animal or gather wood. The NPCs will do plenty of work without you spending these points though, they won't just stand around wasting time. The points are just if you want to make sure they do what -you- want.

Obviously: You can't spend your points to get another player's character to do something, you have to just ask.

[Nerre]

If we should pick colors, I will go for a dark orange. I would have picked something close to honey like yellow, and since yellow is too terrible to read.

A hint for too light colors: Make the speach-text bold, then it is easier to read.

[nikohl]

I will pick a colour that is left over at the end, but it will probably be grey or greyish brown, like Yala's hat.

Colours aren't mandatory if you dont want to use them, btw everyone. But they are pretty useful and widely used in most games, especially those with many players.

[nikohl]

Double post: Gathers, here is what I was trying to describe. I doodled it really quick on my lunchbreak in Paint, which is why it's awful

This is how I understand the map/alignment of the area.

Obviously it is not to scale, the distance from "X" (homeland) is really quite far, and your path goes round obstacles and such which I didn't draw on, but basically the valley is deeper than the surrounding area by a lot, because of the cliffs. There is a slope at the south end leading down into it (very steep, but manageable) and then the deep valley itself extends back up to the north, where there the forest blocks off the end of it. Because it is a long way, you didn't see what was beyond the forest to the north of the valley, or how it got back up to the same level as the rest of the area (big slope or another cliff or anything) - all you can see from "inside" the valley is trees, and you didn't get to look at the outside because you came in at an angle.

I think this is right, but I have not been able to confirm with Badge yet, and the layout is his thing. So he might be along later to make corrections >.>

[BadgeAddict]

Another small side-note about points. Also, yes, the map above is what i was thinking. but anyways, about points.

Think of points as how difficult something is (if i have to make a graph, i will), as the difficulty of an action increases, the amount of points that you need to spend also increases.

Also, imagine that the group traveled South west alongside a trail of mountain, like the Alps, or blue ridge mountains.

[CroverusRaven]

I need to remember to check the regular posts and not just the "Your posts" ones so I don't forget when new games start.

[nikohl]

I have added genders and colours (where I know them) to the starting post player info, also an NPCs tab for your reference. We named the Chieftess now - we hadn't come up with a name before but now it is there. You will all know everyone's names and most of the names of people being referred to - for example, Yala mentioned "Irma" - I made her up on the spot for fluff reasons, she is a member of the old tribe who is now dead. I put this info in the NPC place, because everyone's character will probably know or remember Irma.

If you want to do a similar thing, and add names of past basic people in to your roleplaying for flavour text, go ahead - things like "Ah, you are good with a sling, just like Firda was - she was a fine woman" or "This spear used to belong to my father, Argin" - they don't impact the future story, and just make it feel a bit more real for everyone. I'll update the NPC spoiler to feature people you mention like this, if you want to. Obviously please don't make up very important characters, but naming old tribespeople with regular jobs is fine.

[BadgeAddict]

there is a new map that is being uploaded, allow me to quickly explain what you will see, the light grey at the entrance is the overhang, the golden color is the extension of natural light into the cave. the light grey is area where natural light extends enough to make the area visible, but still quite dark, The dark grey areas are places that you are unable to see your hand in front of your face. In order to become usable, you'll need to come up with a good source of light.

[GathersIngredients]

Thanks for the explanation again. So technically, on the map or our new home area, we have come in from the east/'right'? (Still no wind rose.) Do we know roughly what we have passed there on our way to our new home?

@ Bean: I think it would be nice if Ril and Min would become roomies. Would you be up for that? I thought that the cave closest to the tunnel to the water would be of interest to Ril, and Min claimed it both for convenience (not wanting to carry the earth clumps too far ^^), and because she likes to see what's going on. Can't let any new things get past her, not with her curiosity.

This is the cave I mean:

► Show Spoiler

Right now Min just wants to make sure no jerk will be moving (or gets moved) in with her. Also I am not sure on the social protocol for unmarried girls and their sleeping arrangements in the tribe.
I would be just as happy with Yala as room mate, but I figure that she might want to move into a cave with her twin brother, Yarl, and Min wouldn't be thrilled about that right now, for various reasons.
Or maybe some NPC female?

If there are enough caves that Min doesn't NEED a roomie, that's ok, too, though she really would prefer having one to living alone.

[BadgeAddict]

Gathers, i don't mean to be rude or lacking of information to give you. But currently and until we GMs discuss it, currently what you passed on the way here doesn't matter.

Mostly because we didn't want to come up with that much and secondly because it doesn't matter.

Thanks, we still like your questions.

As for Yarl and Yala living together....brother sister, nahh, they would never, unless forced.

[Theis2]

A quick counting of the caves indicates everyone needs a roomie. ( we were 20 right?)

[nikohl]

20 adults and 5 kids, yeah. It's likely that anyone who hasn't chosen a bunkmate will get "assigned" one by Elto, because of the limited room and everyone needing a safe place to sleep. There is plenty of space in the main cavern for sleeping technically, but it's probably windy and cold in the large main cave-room compared to little enclosed ones.

[Nerre]

I would have prefered a daylight cave for hitto, as he likes to be outside and not in the dark or twilight, but they are all already occupied.
Or is the one closest to the right entrance still free? I would have picked the same as Gathers, but as the events so far mainly took place outside and he was not inside yet, I will not claim anything or let him walk in, just so he can claim it before it fits to the situation. If that forces him to sleep in the tunnels since all caves are already taken, then it will be that way. I won't care much and just roleplay it.
Especially since the concept of "that is my room" or "roommates" is a bit anachronistic for that time. I don't want to be harsh or force my opinion on somebody, I just like historically correct things if it is not a fantasy setting with dinosaurs at the same time like cavemen.
People with special positions like leader or teller might have gotten special spots to stress their importance, but for the rest all they needed was a place to sleep, which didn't have to be the same each night. Maybe the same furr, but not the same spot. People just went in when the light faded and spread accordng to their position in the tribe and family bonds. Important people into the center or on safer spots in the cave, less important people and outsiders close to the exit or at the edge.

► Show Spoiler

Most of the time I don't like forcing roleplay like that. It happens quiet often to my regret. Spotted it in many forums, RPG-groups and even in some games in this forum.
- People try join in a scene their character missed in the beginning, which is interessting to the player, so he comes up with something to force his char in, even if it takes the spotlight from the others or if it disturbs them. Yes, you would have a good idea for that scene, but if you are not in it, don't run there, do not force it, just so you can post the idea. Keep it for later, for a similar scene. It is hard with many players, since people might have similar ideas. Then try to make it work together.
- Or people want to do everything important all by theirselves, not deciding on a specific role, or picking too many roles. It is better to focus on a few aspects and play them out, than trying to be everywhere and stopping what they are doing as soon as something more interesting shows up.

[BadgeAddict]

So, technically there probably won't be dinosaurs at the same time with cavemen. At least not in this horribly inaccurate, politically incorrect story. Technically you are correct though, Elto will probably want a cave for himself and his wife (or his woman...however you wanna see that). I would say though that everyone will most likely get a room, and Elto will make sure that everyone shares. I think that the cave you were referring to is currently occupied by the old crabby crazy man and the shaman (aegis). My original map didn't have many caves, and it is possible that more will be found/created as time continues. Also remember that until a proper system of fire is created, the dark grey caverns won't be able to really be safely used because of how dark it is in the caves.

Also, you are correct about another thing, technically this could be just a really big overhang in which everyone sleeps out in the open with maybe one partially concealed room in which the leader lives. However, if you are unhappy about the living situations, it would be possible, given some time, to build (or find? oOoOo who knows what you will find.) you own dwelling.

[BadgeAddict]

Most of the time I don't like forcing roleplay like that. It happens quiet often to my regret. Spotted it in many forums, RPG-groups and even in some games in this forum.
- People try join in a scene their character missed in the beginning, which is interessting to the player, so he comes up with something to force his char in, even if it takes the spotlight from the others or if it disturbs them. Yes, you would have a good idea for that scene, but if you are not in it, don't run there, do not force it, just so you can post the idea. Keep it for later, for a similar scene. It is hard with many players, since people might have similar ideas. Then try to make it work together.
- Or people want to do everything important all by theirselves, not deciding on a specific role, or picking too many roles. It is better to focus on a few aspects and play them out, than trying to be everywhere and stopping what they are doing as soon as something more interesting shows up.

Nerre...First, if anything is done improperly, The GMs (nikohl and myself) will call it out if we think it needs called out. Also, I somewhat understand your disappointment, however, as in most games in the forums, first come first serve is the typical way.

Also, you're complaint about forcing roleplay and joining a scene, of which you're complaining about, is exactly what you did. (my goal here is not to attack you, but to point this out to you), you rushed up to the bear, and began to help skin it. (I'm okay with that, thats okay), what isn't okay, is that now you are technically complaining about yourself, which blows my mind and makes me quite unsure about what exactly you are complaining about. Again, if there is a problem that needs addressed, yes, its okay to ask about it, but we will deal with problems as we see fit.

The main rule here is, please stop complaining about what other people do that "YOU" consider to be unfair. If you think there is a problem, you can PM us and we'll take care of it, if nothing happens then we have spoken. Please, please, the point of this game, is to have fun. and if you are found to be hogging all the fun for yourself (im talking to anyone who listens), we will call you out.

Now, the most important thing here is this, Because of the point system that we created, although people may hog all the details now, they won't be able to later because they'll run out of points. And if we need to raise the cost of actions because of this, we will.

The GMs have spoken.

[Davecom3]

I'm pretty sure the name "Clan of the Cave Bear" is copyrighted.