Colonizing the New World (Open to all) (OOC)

[thinkslogically]

even if they're moved into the temporary accommodations with the new farmers? that should keep them warm right? And we have grain / probably hay straw from the wheat etc to feed them no?

edit: Apparently I don't know what hay is.

[BadgeAddict]

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Well, they can be moved into accommodations sure, into their temporary tent barns, but that doesn't mean they might not somehow succumb to the weather and such. Rolls will tell us that answer.

[thinkslogically]

Then I think we should also ask / tell the mayor that we're bringing the new mothers and baby animals into the town hall for the winter to see them through...

We should also be able to get milk now the animals are breeding, which will help make stuff like (salted) butter. That's pretty energy dense and should go nicely with our wheat flour flatbreads

[BadgeAddict]

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I hadn't thought of this, but I suppose that once the wheat has been threshed (aka, the stuff that makes flour removed), then you could use the leftovers for straw. Lemme come up with a straw amount. or we could just say a whole bunch.

Based on some additional research on my part. I am going to change somewhat going forward when it comes to crop production rates based on the following information.
In this time period, when you plant 2 bushels (1 bushel=60 pounds) of wheat, you could typically get about 20-30 bushels out at harvest.
based on a 2000 calorie diet, 1 acre of wheat creating 50 bushels can feed 6.2 people per year. Thus, 10 bushels = 4 food units

On the other side, 1 acre of wheat can produce 40-60 bales of straw.

In the 1830's, it took 4 men and 2 oxen 10 hours a day (for the whole season) to produce 200 bushels.

Work of 1 oxen = 10 skilled men

Subtract 330 years of tech and ability

So, putting that all together with some fancy probability.

Planting = 20 "Work" is required to plant 1 acre. Unskilled laborers produce farm work at a rate of 1d3. Skilled workers produce at a minimum rate of 2d10.
Harvesting = 10d3 bushel production rate per acre = X Bushels / 10 = Yieldx4

Example: 80 unskilled colonists create 80 work/month/season = 12 acres. 12x10d3=18, 20, 16, 16, 19, 15, 18, 24, 21, 20, 21 = 208/10= 20x4 = 80 units of wheat flour

So, based on the example above, using some rolls, 80 people working nonstop for an entire season (2 actually, 1 planting and 1 harvesting, can make enough food for themselves for 1 season. If the mayor was skilled in farming, or if any of them were skilled in farming (which currently there are 2 who are) then that number would climb.

[thinkslogically]

We'll need it for bedding etc. for the animals I guess but I guess if we have enough for the animals any spare can go to make bedding etc for the populace. Barns always seem to have straw chucked around everywhere, so I'm sure it's very important

...I should have been a fisherman. At least I've done that before!

[thinkslogically]

((if there are enough other hands to help, Freya will not build the barn, but will instead tell all her workers to do it, and will instead tend to the animals all winter to try and keep them alive, using her most skilled farmer plebs to help. She'll train more folk in spring)).

[spiderwrangler]

((If we get access to the bog iron, you won't have to make tools out of sharpened bits of rock. I can make metal parts, and you can fit them to wooden parts of all sorts of tools, wheelbarrows, etc.))

[GathersIngredients]

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If... (up to 1:25 or so; only this time, if is bad.)

Since better tools = higher productivity (or in our case ANY tools, because there's too few for all colonists atm., even if we let them work all the different jobs we have tools for), I'm gonna say for now:
a) ...if is not good enough.
and b) even IF we get it, the colonists are gonna need time to mine it (lots of man power), smelt it (which is gonna need TONS of wood or other fuel, meaning more manpower), smith it, AND the smith will have to be in the mood to cater to Bjorn's needs at that point in time.

Plus we are going to need a smelting oven (I don't think that's standard equip in a smith's tool set), a forge,... all of which we need to build first, most likely. Whereas Bjorn only needs his chisel and hammer and his knowledge of where to chip away.

So yeah, all things considered I'd rather know (asking the GM doesn't cost anything) if Bjorn can be a little more self-sufficient, just in case the need may be. Besides, you don't need big bits of rock/stone to make tool parts (just check out the stone age made weapons and tools), so I'm hoping Bjorn can maybe just pick some suitable ones up when he goes for a walk or whatever, and not have to find a quarry first, mine stone, etc. (=skip the whole mine, smelt process you NEED for metal and just reduce it to the "smithing" - or stonemasoning in this case part).

[BadgeAddict]

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I apparently have a lot to answer for, but before I do, I would like to ask that these discussions take place within spoilers so that when I update I can ignore these posts.

Now for the slog of answers:

1. If Groff isn't feeling up to governship, he could resign, giving up his power over the people and allowing someone else to rise in his stead, though elections would still be at the same time, which is every 2 years from the initial, so basically, at the end of every spring. Though, as I said before, this is the initial creation of the king and should you choose to change that, you'll need to work that out amongst yourselves, though the laymen will need to agree to whatever you're doing.
2. This colony was established with a majority of men, maybe 100 men, 10 women. The women are being relied on to do a lot of the "extra tasks", without being directly counted into the labor pool. This is not intended to be sexist, but there are "behind the scenes things" like cooking and cleaning which are happening without it being addressed, the women-folk (minus thinks) are doing these things.
3. I would prefer to leave the farming as I did it and yes the production rate is for wheat, I'll need to come up with other similar ones for other crops. I like this because, unskilled labor is not meant to be rewarding or easy. (On a side note, some crops have a growth rate of 1 season, some have a growth rate of 2 seasons)
@Gathers:
1. Every 2 years
2. no particular reason
3. luck/unluck
4. Wheelbarrows would be able to increase carry rate over distances when involved with heavy things...As far as how will it be helpful: Not building something won't help ever, but building something is an unknown and might need some math adjustment. Meaning that, if you build it, I'll make it worth it.
5. Smoking racks are a typical colonial building, and doing research into colonial buildings will help you discover other buildings you can build.
6. You won't know till you try...however, much like some tech is too far ahead of you, other tech is too far behind you. From everything I can find, colonists did not use stone tools. Native americans yes, colonists no. I surmise and suggestion and will forward the idea, here in this game at least, that stone tool making is so far behind you as a culture that you no longer know how to properly make them. Again, proving me wrong is allowed with a source. (Masonry is for quarrying stones and making buildings with them)
7. A sawmill is a medium sized building. There would be a saw blade needed yes, though Thormond could probably make what you needed. Some sawmills are powered by waterwheels. Some are powered by humans. Early sawmills (this timeframe) would adapt the WhipSaw (A common lumbering saw) into a fixture in order to cut the wood, and I could see you guys figuring that out, the ideas of sawmills have been around since the 300's. Thus, we'll say that building a sawmill will "use up" a Lumbering ToT (+1). <-- you can get more from the king if you have resources to spend, trade goods, etc.
8. Try and find out, I'm willing to allow most things and would rather not get bogged down with every minute detail, if you can't do something, I'll stop you before you waste the effort. (Unless you send 80 men to fish with 5 poles )
9. Quality tools are created when certain things are aligned, which is why for now, buying them is how you get them.

Oh, and bog iron isn't really mined...it''s more....found. http://www.hurstwic.org/history/article ... g_iron.htm
And you "found" a large resource area for it, not that there won't be work involved in finding it, but, it's not mined. It's also a renewable resource, once its depleted.

[M0rtimer]

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Just so you're aware Spider, I've allotted some men to help you clear a path through the marsh, and we'll probably want to make a proper path for carts sometime in the future. (Although,
has Thormod considered the virtues of being a hermit? Things would be much simpler if we let him live out there in the swamp and he does most of the stuff on location...)

Anyways, it should mean you can do something else if you wish.

To respond to what Badge said: But I thought Minecraft has taught us we upgrade from wood, to stone, to iron and then diamonds...

Also, not sure how I feel about losing my axe, but I guess sacrifices must be made for the greater good... My plan for now is to get a few basic utility buildings built, and start working on "fixed jobs" where X amount of the population will always be doing this and that... Once we got that going I'll start the construction of houses. If I get that far while being governor, at least... Maybe I'll just have Groff slowly go mad with power and not wanting to give up power...

[thinkslogically]

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sorry badge, that was a lot of text for you! But what is the production rate for wheat? Is it 2 seasons work = 1 year of food per person, or 2 seasons work = 1 seasons worth of food (per person)

[spiderwrangler]

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Just so you're aware Spider, I've allotted some men to help you clear a path through the marsh, and we'll probably want to make a proper path for carts sometime in the future. (Although,
has Thormod considered the virtues of being a hermit? Things would be much simpler if we let him live out there in the swamp and he does most of the stuff on location...)

Anyways, it should mean you can do something else if you wish.

Ah, excellent. I was teaching all day yesterday, so a whole lot of stuff went up, I was trying to get something up so it wasn't waiting on me. I'm just now going back and reading over things. Hermitage is sounding more and more appealing. Getting access to the iron is his focus now, should the path be cleared before winter is over, he'd work on continuing to widen it, working towards making it cart accessible. Don't think the iron is very easily collected in winter,
so that will likely have to wait until at least spring to accomplish.

[BadgeAddict]

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Yield for Wheat is 1d3x4/acre. regardless of who is working on it.
To maximize yield, your desire should be to plant as many acres as possible, which is increased based on the amount of "work" created. An unskilled person produces farming work at a low rate of 1d3, while a "skilled" person produces at 2d10+%based on level, which should average a good deal higher than 1d3.

80 persons @ 1d3 average 2 work individually or 160 work together / 20acre = 8 acres, which based on yield rolls will average 8 food.
80 persons @ 2d10 average 11 work individually or 880 work together / 20acre = 44 acres, which based on yield rolls will average 44 food.
^This is without the use of any known tech.

Let's say you had either horses or oxen.

Both Oxen and horses make work easier by counting as multipliers when paired with a group of men. 8 men + 2 horses, or 4 men + 1 oxen.
A stipulation: Only skilled men can use horses or oxen to farm with.
8 skilled men would average 11 work by themselves, 88 together , but with horses (x5) 440 work = 22 acres = 22 food
4 skilled men would average 11 work by themselves, 44 together, but with oxen (x10) 440 work = 22 acres = 22 food

Note: The above numbers are based on a per month basis. This assumes that 1 season is spent planting and another spent harvesting.
Example: you plant in Spring 1, you could harvest in Summer 1.
Or, if you plant in Spring 1-3, you harvest in Summer 1-3.

[thinkslogically]

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ok, this is confusing... But ok. How much is 1 food worth? Like, how many people does that feed for how long?

[spiderwrangler]

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I think it feeds 1 person for 1 season? So with unskilled labor, 80 unskilled folks working two season will on average, harvest enough grain (24) to last 6 people a year... Is it too early to turn to cannibalism?

[BadgeAddict]

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^What he said

[M0rtimer]

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Screw this, Groff is running while he can and going to live on fishing!

[BadgeAddict]

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I will say this, colonial life is not easy, and I hope I did not fool you into thinking that it was. A lot of the colonies lost 1/2 to 3/4 of their men within their first 2 years in america because they weren't prepared.....but that doesn't mean that you can't survive this in the end.

You are in roughly the "Virginia" area equivalent. but the winter won't last more than 3 months..for now....in order to keep with the layout of the game.

[M0rtimer]

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Question: How much colonists do you think one skilled colonist could train at a time, and could that be done while still having those people produce..?

[BadgeAddict]

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Do you mean a skilled (PC) colonist training an unskilled colonist. I currently don't have a limit to how many you can train at once...maybe I would if you guys abused it, but currently I don't have plans for that. Or are you asking whether skilled NPCs could train unskilled NPCs...I'm leaning toward saying no, but I'll need to think about it.

[M0rtimer]

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Alright, good to hear, but do NPC's still produce in the field while being taught, or is their action foregone for that season as it's all spent "studying"? My idea is to basically "ask" Freya to prioritize teaching a good number of peasants this season- and if they still work during that time that's great, but otherwise there needs to be both a study force and a workforce, to get at least SOME food planted...

Also, how much men would it take to slaughter a pig (if any), and how much food would that get us?

Finally, does the occupation of "soldier" grant a boon to hunting?

[BadgeAddict]

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Alright, good to hear, but do NPC's still produce in the field while being taught, or is their action foregone for that season as it's all spent "studying"? My idea is to basically "ask" Freya to prioritize teaching a good number of peasants this season- and if they still work during that time that's great, but otherwise there needs to be both a study force and a workforce, to get at least SOME food planted...

Also, how much men would it take to slaughter a pig (if any), and how much food would that get us?

Finally, does the occupation of "soldier" grant a boon to hunting?

Yes, NPCs still produce while being taught.
You could probably get 1 man to slaughter animals at the farming rate. 1d3 if unskilled, 2d10 if skilled (per month). It's funny you ask about this as Spider and I were just talking about this. a 300 pound pig will provide 1 food (1 season worth) for 1 person. And, it takes 3 seasons for 1 piglet to become 1 300 pound pig.
Reproduction rate of pigs: A gilt (a young female hog) should reach sexual maturity at five or six months of age, and be receptive for two or three days of each subsequent 21 day cycle.Gestation is 114 days, and a sow will give birth to anywhere from 1 to a dozen piglets. She can have 2 litters a year.

So, after 2 seasons, female pigs become sexually active, after 2 seasons from conception, she can have a litter of 1 to 12 piglets and can essentially have 2 litters per year.

[BadgeAddict]

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Animals would be able to forage for themselves, though that would require a sizable amount of field space for them. They could also be "herded" which would allow them to forage at will. In the winter (I may have given you somewhat of a pass this winter) it would be wise to collect hay (Grass) for the animals to eat.

[spiderwrangler]

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Badge has said that a small smelter would be able to be built in a season, basically a clay lined chimney that can be used to melt, refine and condense the metal. I have a small forge as part of my gear (likely just some fire hardened bricks or the like that can be circled up and a bellows set on it to be able to bring charcoal up to temp. That's what I'm going to need help with, getting firewood turned into charcoal so I can run a clean forge for heating metal.

[M0rtimer]

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Ah, if it is in fact quick to set up, I'll have some of the colonists help you gather ore, yes. Although probably/maybe only 5, since that's as much tools as we have..? Or is there a (reduced) benefit to more?