The Sundered Way - OOC

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thinkslogically
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:30 pm

See also: zoologists, entomologists, botanists, microbiologists... :lol:

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Lurks_In_Shadows
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Lurks_In_Shadows » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:12 pm

I'll be out of town on Friday until around 6 or 7 PM DST. Mandatory training session at the main hospital in Fayetteville, AR. About a 2 1/2 hour drive down and back + 6 hours face to face training. Whee.
Spider has permission to roll for Randy. Order of attack: 1st the spear, then the sword to the right. Then to assist Coljin if he's still fighting his sword. After that, whoever needs help.

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spiderwrangler
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:09 pm

No worries, hope training went well. Currently waiting on confirmation from Zephyr, but I've got a grading assignment that I'm committed to finishing before I go to bed tonight, so not likely to get an update up anyway. If I don't hear from Badge by the time I'm able to update, I'll go with what I have for her.
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thinkslogically
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:20 pm

Moving the hiding discussion here because it's getting long.

I just want to know what benefits I get by making the stealth action specifically vs. having an illusion to disappear behind. Mechanically, they appear to provide the exact same benefit, at least in combat. Either way, I'm unseen. If I don't move or speak, I should also, presumably be inaudible.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:33 pm

spiderwrangler wrote:When a creature canÔÇÖt see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hiddenÔÇöboth unseen and unheardÔÇöwhen you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.

((The short of it is if you are hidden, you can peek out sneakily enough to get a shot off before a target knows you're there. If you aren't hidden, you just stand up, and try to shoot them, they see it coming. Being hidden or not is the difference between *guaranteeing having Advantage on the attack or not. As a rogue, you're going to almost always want to use that cunning action to hide if you're able. Note that you don't give yourself away until after the attack resolves.))
I added a word in there for clarity. Maybe.

It's a tad convoluted, and I had to go back through stuff and make sure my interpretation was what I thought it was, especially since I've handled it poorly in the past (see Thri-kreen in Monster Mash...)

Somewhat my fault for not calling it out (because your roll was so bad ;) ), but I would not have considered you to have advantage on your first attack either. You can't be seen if you're crouched behind it, as you are in total cover, but once you stepped out to take a shot at one of them, you are now no longer unseen, so the attack would no longer be at advantage. Someone hiding behind a wall is out of sight, but if he steps out to shoot you, he's in sight again.

Making the effort to hide gives you that bit of edge that throws them off just long enough to get a shot off, or potentially slip away.
thinkslogically wrote:I just want to know what benefits I get by making the stealth action specifically vs. having an illusion to disappear behind. Mechanically, they appear to provide the exact same benefit, at least in combat. Either way, I'm unseen. If I don't move or speak, I should also, presumably be inaudible.
The wall just blocks visual, the stealth action to be hidden accounts for controlling your breathing, making sure you're not scraping things on the ground, loading your crossbow quietly, etc. The roll covers your "presumably".

The benefits then would be: Hidden = attack at advantage if still hidden (Stealth vs Perception). Unseen = attack at advantage only if still unseen (invisible, heavily obscured, somewhere the DM says they wouldn't be looking).

I'm starting to get unsure if you're asking because you want to know, or just don't want to have to make the roll... Tess doesn't roll that bad, does she?

The benefit of AT is you have the potential to make things that you can utilize, if you didn't you'd have nothing to try to hide behind.
The benefit of being a rogue, is no one else can shoot and hide on the same turn, to set up a potential other shot the next turn.

Do be aware that a minor illusion trick to hide and get advantage is likely to have a limited life span against a smart foe. Sort of like hiding behind the same tree time after time. Eventually someone is going to just walk up and bop you.

((Belatedly realizing that these things don't have eyes, and would most likely have blindsight.... oh well.))

((By the by, I just learned today that WIS (Perception) rolls are only intended to be used when actively looking about for something, and never result in a Perception lower than your passive. If the thing would be picked up by your passive, it should have been noticed already, rolling a 1 on a check doesn't matter.))
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thinkslogically
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:10 pm

Ok cool, that explains that better thanks. I guess I could shoot thru the illusion with advantage, but that would ruin the illusion?

I wasn't trying to be an ass by the way (tho I know I sound like one when I type sometimes), or trying to get out of rolling. I just wasnt sure of the differences but that makes sense. Nem does fine rolling with stealth, but having different ways to get the advantage on the roll is also pretty useful. Sneak attack is usually a given, but getting the adv roll is very useful. Basically, I'm just trying out options :)

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:18 pm

5' x 5' is decent size, but still going to need to crouch a bit to fit most likely. Shooting through would probably work just fine, but if someone notices where the bolts are coming from, they'd get suspicious of that crate or whatever that keeps shooting them. Keep in mind that it would appear faint to you if you'd like, as you know it to be illusion.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:51 pm

Yup, that's kind of what I was going for - like a one-way "mirror", but only good for like one shot or whatever.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:59 am

Regarding the perception thing, I've seen it argued a few different ways. Personally I treat them as different skills with different DCs (following the precedent in lost mines of phandelver and such), because I think they represent different player actions and levels of focus.

So, the DC to notice a trap might be 15 passive (because you're not paying specific attention to traps) or 10 active. That keeps the rolls important for thoughtful (paranoid) PCs, but without penalising a good passive score. YMMV of course, that's just how I treat them in my games :)

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:02 am

Yeah, this was from a podcast with the WotC rules guy.

...and a follow up series of questions.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/29/sh ... gh-enough/


If you walk into a room and want to know what's in the room, you should be able to see stuff, rolling a 1 shouldn't mean you close your eyes and walk into a wall.

Not gonna get into the whole Perception vs Investigation thing on traps, that's a whole 'nother mess.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:25 pm

Mess is right, and I'd forgotten about investigation... Finding traps was not a good example :lol:

A better example might be Korrik's current situation in the WA. Your passive perception meant you heard voices; you need active to hear the words. That's at least how I'm using it over there :)

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Theis2 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:03 pm

Just to screw things over, (unless it was possible to use 2 hd from the whistle and I can retroactively roll the second one) I would like to have used shield to get a wild surge happening as I went down from the critical hit in order to maybe save me.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:05 pm

Yeah, that makes sense, I think what Crawford was saying is if it is something that wouldn't normally need a focused attempt, to not make them do a skill check and give them nothing if they roll bad. For example,

So if there are sounds of talking that a DC 12 would notice, anyone with Passive above that notices, but can ask for a roll, and if someone hits a XX they might be able to tell its two people, if they hit YY, they can tell it's someone yelling at an underling, etc.

But if you have a Passive of 12, and roll a 5, you would still notice them passively, but not get anything additional.

Theis: It was only possible to use one HD from the whistle... I still have you at 3 HP, but if you have slots left, you can use shield... your tides are toggled to the wild surge position then?
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Theis2 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:12 pm

I think I were at 14 hp before the attack, but I might have forgotten to add the whistle healing or added it before you changed your notes and giving me double healing?

If Holger is still standing, then no shield otherwise the roll below. I've also started using tides of chaos liberally during combat lately just to get the surges on shield spells :p

Wild surge: 1D100 = [56] = 56

Also going to sleep soonish :zzz:
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:29 pm

According to the Battle Health Tracker and my turn order where I track HP, you were at 18 before taking a hit of 15...
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Theis2 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:37 pm

Super, I trust your notes, not going bald by spectral sword blow then :p
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:43 pm

@Spider- for sure. You read a lot of horror stories about DMs who require rolls to discover every single aspect of a scene (or to avoid walking into a wall when entering a bar) and honestly, I just can't be arsed with any of that. Its a plot-killer at a table game, never mind on a forum. I'm hardly a perfect DM, but I do try to assume you're all functional adults, and only usually make you roll for out of the ordinary events :)

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:23 am

I guess it's way too late to claim being in a hurry meant I missed Zeph got downed and I'd totally have used a heal if I did?

I'll heal her on my next turn, barring Coljin doesn't already take care of it.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:30 am

She'll survive a round. Probably. :paranoia:
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by NotStickFigures » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:36 am

Coljin has one spell left, 2nd level...and will heal Zephyr when this last spear goes away.

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by Lurks_In_Shadows » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:00 pm

Originally I was concerned that using the claw may have been overkill. Not so much now. A retreat to rest and recover may be in order (especially since Spider hasn't taken us off combat turns yet)?

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:11 pm

Keeping you on there for now, since it makes it easier to track what is going on as Maji reaches the floor above, and if there is anything you end up doing with your remaining 36 seconds of fire halberd, but I suppose I can change it to "Main Party" and "Maji".
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:36 am

Might be metagaming a bit here, but wouldn't it be better to have them knocked out, then heal them? Or does poison stick around/ something bad happens if you get ko'd by poison? :shifty:

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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by spiderwrangler » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:40 am

If the poison is still active, there is no penalty to making CON saves while unconscious, but each time they take damage while unconscious and dying, they automatically fail a death save. If they are unconscious but stable at 0 HP and take damage, they become unstable, and have to start making death saves.

So no... not really any benefit to them being knocked out other than you can try to make Medicine checks to keep them stable vs spending healing resources.... but if they already have a failed death save, you fail a medicine check, they fail their CON and take damage, and also fail a death save on the same round... they you've got a dead character.
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Re: The Sundered Way - OOC

Post by thinkslogically » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:45 am

And that's assuming no more enemies show up to be distracting :lol:

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