Whiteleaf OOC

[Amara]

alright, best solution then
Cassien maybe knows someone, but it'd take time to get a hold of them, so we wouldn't be able to in the immediate future. (But soon.)
And we can move on then.

[spiderwrangler]

Kast is only gonna get grumpier.

I'm all for moving along, telling him we'll look into it.

[willpell]

I shall regard consensus as having been achieved, and move us along shortly.

[Synch]

Kast is only gonna get grumpier.

I'm all for moving along, telling him we'll look into it.

+1 too, Dalsein is already very surly and grumpy!

I'm sorry guys, I can add nothing to any conversation at this point, I'm just waiting for whatever you all come up with.

[Arch Lich Burns]

If you were going to have her run away automatically for plot reasons (which I don't know why asides that she maybe one of the assassins, which makes no sense) then why? Why did you put it there? If there is no hope in catchig up with her and try to help her out only for her to get away from me no matter what...makes me feel...like not playing if I eon't even have a chance no matter how slim.

[willpell]

If you were going to have her run away automatically for plot reasons (which I don't know why asides that she maybe one of the assassins, which makes no sense) then why? Why did you put it there? If there is no hope in catchig up with her and try to help her out only for her to get away from me no matter what...makes me feel...like not playing if I eon't even have a chance no matter how slim.

You were meant to see the event occur, not necessarily be able to interfere, but just as part of the stage-setting. Not trying to take away your agency entirely, but the whole reason they don't tell you right in the Player's Handbook how to play a Ghost, and wrote not one but several books addressing the issues associated with having undead in the party, is that being Incorporeal can complicate matters in all sorts of ways which can be difficult for any GM to deal with. I like your character, but he does necessitate a certain degree of hand-waving on occasion.

[willpell]

@ Wrangler: Continuing on from our discussion of jumping spiders, I've thought of an issue I have noticed previously, and have explored the ramifications a bit more, finding it to be a stickier problem than I realized.

The essence of it all is this line: "Distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round. For example, Krusk has a speed of 40 feet. If he moves 30 feet, then jumps across a 10-foot-wide chasm, heÔÇÖs then moved 40 feet total, so thatÔÇÖs his move action." What this example fails to clarify is what happens if Krusk moves 30 feet, then jumps across a 20-foot chasm. In other words, can you exceed your normal movement limit by obeying the laws of inertia and gravity? Combine that with the ability for a character to get a truly absurd amount of bonuses to a skill check, potentially hitting Epic Check DCs even before epic levels, and we get a question that I asked myself earlier about one of my NPCs - can you Jump just because you want to, as an alternative to walking along normal ground? At the time I could think of no reason not; now I have a potentially very valid one. If you can catapult yourself across a chasm and thereby exceed your normal movement, then what do you need the chasm for? Why not always run your full 30 feet, then take a flying leap and see how much additional movement you can get?

If I answer this question wrong, I might well be opening a huge can of worms, resulting in a Mortal Kombat-esque world where everyone travels by backflipping through the air in arcs higher than their head. But it doesn't seem like I can honorably just say that a character isn't allowed to travel by skipping, bunny-hopping or Hulk-leaping if they so choose either; there are some characters who totally should use those movement modes. So now I'm at a bit of a loss.

[Amara]

Since a turn happens in a set amount of time, I suppose you could easily rule they will make it across the chasm, but not during their turn.

[spiderwrangler]

Well, to make it easier on you without you having to make any line in the sand stances... Kast isn't the skipping sort, and Kzri is at least nominally under your control. Kast is able to give her simple movement instructions and the like, but how she accomplishes them is at your discretion.

(In regards to spider biology, it would be unlikely for a spider to take a running leap. If you youtube up videos of jumping spiders, it is nearly always from a stationary position, but I'd rather give her a running start in game than suffer penalties...)

My reading of this "Distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round.", is that each round represents 6 seconds, and any extra would resolve the following round.

So for your example of Krusk (40ft/round) running 30 feet to the edge of a chasm and jumping 20 feet, I'd say you'd roll to see if he succeeds, if he does, that round ends with him midair (30 feet + 10 feet = movement for the round). Next round, Krusk would move another 10 feet through the air to land, and potentially could move another 30 feet.

From a physics perspective, you aren't going to be able to move faster in the air than you would by running (well... except for falling from a height... ). So for Krusk, his typical velocity is 6.67 ft/s (or covering 10 ft every 1.5 s). Running 30 feet would therefore take 4.5 s. If the entire distance of his jump were able to be resolved in that round, he would be covering 20 ft in 1.5 s, or accelerating to a rate of 13.33 ft/s.

Acceleration = (velocity final - velocity initial)/time

(13.33ft/s - 6.67 ft/s)/1.5s = 4.44 ft/s^2


If he were to take a 30 ft run up to a 30 ft jump over a chasm (with an extra 20 feet to resolve), if it were completely in one round, he would be accelerating (at a rate of 8.89 ft/s^2) to 20 ft/s, triple his base movement speed.

I think the math supports my stance that any extra resolves the following round, otherwise as you said, people could just leap about... and every time they did so, they'd be jerked forward as they accelerate to a faster velocity.


: Yeah... what Amara said.

[willpell]

Don't try too hard to bring physics into the gameworld; it can only end in the construction of peasant railguns.

[spiderwrangler]

Don't try too hard to bring physics into the gameworld; it can only end in the construction of peasant railguns.

I only support logically relevant physics in game, not any of that 'mathematically valid according to rules that weren't intending to create a loophole, but do' sort of stuff.

[Quarg]

Coil guns are far more effective than railguns...but either way a peasant just is not that conductive to be flung by a railgun...even one soaked in his own urine...

[spiderwrangler]

Although, the 40 ft base speed represents a walking pace... not a running one... so all my math is likely a moot point. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm

To make a running leap, for a character in medium and under armor, they would be running at 4x base speed, so Krusk would have 160ft of movement at a running speed, easily able run 30 feet to a chasm 20 feet across and keep moving. Now if he ran 150ft to a chasm 20 feet across, I'd still say he has to wait til the following turn to land.

Even for a character with base speed of 30 ft in full plate would have a running distance of 90ft.

[Synch]

Hmm... Elieen, Cassien, Dalsein, Quinton - most of our names end in N! I think for a bit of variation I may refer to myself as Stormcrow from time to time.

[BadgeAddict]

Zaks.....no N.....I feel left out of the club.

[spiderwrangler]

Zaks.....no N.....I feel left out of the club.

Kast's last name ends in N, but no N in the first name.

[willpell]

Coil guns are far more effective than railguns...but either way a peasant just is not that conductive to be flung by a railgun...even one soaked in his own urine...

Well the point is that if you try to use physics in D&D, as Spider was suggesting with the jumping question, you end up with the idea that a line of 500 peasants can all hand a cannonball or something down the line as a free action, and that doing so accelerates the object to relativistic speeds (nevermind that if this was actually true, peasant number 250 or so would lose a hand from touching the rapidly-heating projectile, and that would be the end of it). This proposal has been suggested before; I don't know of any DMs stupid enough to fall for it, but I always figure any move in this direction should be nipped in the bud, lest it become a slippery slope.

Although, the 40 ft base speed represents a walking pace... not a running one... so all my math is likely a moot point. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm

To make a running leap, for a character in medium and under armor, they would be running at 4x base speed, so Krusk would have 160ft of movement at a running speed, easily able run 30 feet to a chasm 20 feet across and keep moving. Now if he ran 150ft to a chasm 20 feet across, I'd still say he has to wait til the following turn to land.

Although it's called a "running start", it doesn't necessarily imply that you're using the Run or even Hustle actions; as far as I can tell, the 30-foot move rate is intended to represent reasonably fast movement (if you're just going out for a stroll you'd probably move only 5 or 10 feet in the 2.5 seconds or so represented by a move action). Since most of the time you won't even need to bother rolling for moderately-difficult tasks (you can just take 10) unless in combat, the assumption should generally be that the character is either jogging or hustling, but not taking the Run action, since that would kill his AC as well as being tactically problematic on a cluttered battlefield.

[Quarg]

Coil guns are far more effective than railguns...but either way a peasant just is not that conductive to be flung by a railgun...even one soaked in his own urine...

Well the point is that if you try to use physics in D&D, as Spider was suggesting with the jumping question, you end up with the idea that a line of 500 peasants can all hand a cannonball or something down the line as a free action, and that doing so accelerates the object to relativistic speeds (nevermind that if this was actually true, peasant number 250 or so would lose a hand from touching the rapidly-heating projectile, and that would be the end of it). This proposal has been suggested before; I don't know of any DMs stupid enough to fall for it, but I always figure any move in this direction should be nipped in the bud, lest it become a slippery slope.
.

Er...I still find the concept of trying to shoot people on a railgun funny...

But momentum laws says that at about 23 mph your average, slightly pudgy peasant will be thrown off their feet using a six pound cannonball or peasant 10 or 11 isn't going to be handing it off to anyone but getting thrown on his fat a**

[Amara]

Spiders are nothing more than arachnid kittens, and nothing will convince me otherwise.

I just got a jumping spider to chase a laser pointer around for a while, and now I"m wondering if Kzri would react the same way to the will o' wisps made by dancing lights? :0

[Quarg]

Not sure if giving Cassien or Eileen void sense at the moment would be the most advantageous

[willpell]

I've lost access to my resource site...again...and thus may have some issues moving forward with the game. Please stand by.

[willpell]

I've lost access to my resource site...again...and thus may have some issues moving forward with the game. Please stand by.

The emergency has hopefully passed. Where were we again?

[Synch]

We are trying to spot the sentient being in the copse, having just discovered the other giant spider.

[Arch Lich Burns]

And currently trying no to have monsterous spider babies, no matter how awesome that would be

[spiderwrangler]

If Kzri has babies, you could each have one of your very own!