Trinity Isles OOC

[M0rtimer]

You make some good points, really, though I'd have to admit I'm not immediately sure what I could do to help mitigate that. I've considered giving misc exp for good roleplaying, but that might not be completely fair either. Then again, maybe it shouldn't be, good roleplaying should be rewarded... Though it wouldn't solve the matter I am generally bad in remembering it's something I should do as well

Also, got two questions for you guys, seeing what your thoughts are... I think it's pretty obvious which answers will be most beneficial to you in the moment, but would appreciate your actual thoughts

Looking at Hex's description:
Once a Scene, if Hex's target has a Status Affliction, you may have Hex's Damage Base be 13 instead (4d10+10 / 35)

Would this mean once per scene total, or once per scene per target? I'm presuming the former, but want your guys thoughts.

Secondly, and I'm surprised I didn't seem able to find this somewhere in the rulebook... What causes a stratagem to become unbound, if anything? Does it simply become bound for the duration of the scene, or are there things that remove it, such as the person that bound it being knocked out?

@Mort: Fern is a still Ferroseed, not a Ferrothorn. Just so you know for the map

Oops, my bad

[M0rtimer]

Double post, but thinking about it, we COULD take a different route entirely and say something along the lines of: no more dexp. That takes away some of the pressure of "needing" to evolve or capture pokemon, and I'd just have to make sure you guys get misc exp from other sources.

That doesn't solve the issue that if someone wants to go full power gamer, and simply captures stronger wild pokemon (which is hard to avoid unless I just start spamming TONS of weaker pokemon) to replace their weaker ones... Though I don't think any of you would do that, or at least aren't going to risk the wrath of me doing that

Alternatively... Well, from an IC perspective I'd understand not wanting to capture a pokemon if you're not going to use it, but what if it's looked at the perspective from putting them in "time out"? A capture is after all a quick way to incapacitate a pokemon, and afterward it CAN be released... Maybe an EXP bonus of sorts can be tied to it, so one can still get the benefits of the challenge of capturing a pokemon, without the IC issues that you don't have the room to take care of another pokemon..?

Though I suppose that might also just make things worse

[Dusk9]

You make some good points, really, though I'd have to admit I'm not immediately sure what I could do to help mitigate that. I've considered giving misc exp for good roleplaying, but that might not be completely fair either. Then again, maybe it shouldn't be, good roleplaying should be rewarded... Though it wouldn't solve the matter I am generally bad in remembering it's something I should do as well

Yeah, that's part of the reason I think it's not a good mechanic. Without any guidelines on how/when to give it out, it's entirely down to the GM to remember.

And I'm not sure there really is a way to fix it easily - short of just abolishing trainer exp entirely and sticking everyone on the same level?

Also, got two questions for you guys, seeing what your thoughts are... I think it's pretty obvious which answers will be most beneficial to you in the moment, but would appreciate your actual thoughts

Looking at Hex's description:
Once a Scene, if Hex's target has a Status Affliction, you may have Hex's Damage Base be 13 instead (4d10+10 / 35)

Would this mean once per scene total, or once per scene per target? I'm presuming the former, but want your guys thoughts.

I'd say once per scene total.

Secondly, and I'm surprised I didn't seem able to find this somewhere in the rulebook... What causes a stratagem to become unbound, if anything? Does it simply become bound for the duration of the scene, or are there things that remove it, such as the person that bound it being knocked out?

That...is weird. They do automatically unbind at the end of combat though, so they aren't completely permanent? It's your call though - KOing someone should probably unbind that sort of thing.

[Dusk9]

Alternatively... Well, from an IC perspective I'd understand not wanting to capture a pokemon if you're not going to use it, but what if it's looked at the perspective from putting them in "time out"? A capture is after all a quick way to incapacitate a pokemon, and afterward it CAN be released... Maybe an EXP bonus of sorts can be tied to it, so one can still get the benefits of the challenge of capturing a pokemon, without the IC issues that you don't have the room to take care of another pokemon..?

That's how I've been having Izzy act. Pokeballs are mainly used by her to get stuff out of the fight, or save Pokemon if their getting bullied. Like in the bird/bug fight earlier.

And I thought we'd already decided to keep dex exp for released/traded Pokemon?

[M0rtimer]

Oh yes, dex exp is kept for released pokemon, obviously. I'm just talking about an actual experience boost to pokemon- So if you capture a lvl 35 pokemon, rather than be tempted to ditch one of your pokemon for it, you could release it and get a significant experience boost for one of your pokemon..? I'm not going to say it'd end up the same level, it needs fleshing out if that's how we'd want to do things, but it is an option.

[Dlover]

A quick side comment on Dusk's side talk:

► Show Spoiler

The comment on characters more focused on combat and strong pokemon versus focused on NPC interactions hits home so hard, considering Alex has literally only ever won two or three battles himself. Every other battle he's had support from other players or NPCs. Despite having a pokemon whose fist is basically a reusable nuke, there's such a massive dichotomy (Yes, I did have to look that word up, but only to double-check that I was using it right).
That said, that's just who Alex is, and I think if that changed he wouldn't be Alex anymore. After all, his entire schtick is meant to be talking other people into doing things for him. That he's even left home and is now in a magic tower is technically out of character.

Alternatively... Well, from an IC perspective I'd understand not wanting to capture a pokemon if you're not going to use it, but what if it's looked at the perspective from putting them in "time out"? A capture is after all a quick way to incapacitate a pokemon, and afterward it CAN be released... Maybe an EXP bonus of sorts can be tied to it, so one can still get the benefits of the challenge of capturing a pokemon, without the IC issues that you don't have the room to take care of another pokemon..?

It would certainly act to reduce the difference, and it creates another option. Pokeballs would basically become an expendable item of "I need to try to get this one out of the fight right now," which isn't a bad thing.
That said, I would constantly forget to do it. Or just accidentally nuke everything with the power of Roy's fists.

The rest of this is basically just rambling humour I'm probably too tired to be trusted with posting so I'll spoiler that out to save space and only leave the relevant thing not spoilered.

► Show Spoiler

... I should probably clarify that even if I'm talking about power difference or levels or anything like that, I really give no damns, it's just humour to me. I'm two levels down from our highest leveled player? Oh noooo, the tragedy. If I had those two extra levels, Alex could do a whole.... Tiny bit more lying. And teach one extra tutor move to his pokemon. What a massive shame.
Don't get me wrong, when someone feels underleveled then they feel underleveled. I've got one character plan who, going from level 11 to level 13, basically learns to just heckin' murder everything he fights. So I'm not ridiculing anyone who does actually feel that level gap, 'cause I know it can make a difference. But it doesn't mean jack shoot to Alex. He will never stop being trash and I love him for it.

... Oh gods, I just realised something. Alex is basically just an escort quest NPC. He's frail and constantly on the verge of dying, and he won't contribute much to combat, but he'll certainly give you nice rewards in the downtime. Oh, and the universe itself seems to want him dead. And he seems to want him dead. Those are also classic elements of an escort quest.

[SuperVaderMan]

Some games do the thing where Dex xp is shared between everyone, too, though in our case it would be a bit tricky to implement as of right now.

[SuperVaderMan]

And I'm not sure there really is a way to fix it easily - short of just abolishing trainer exp entirely and sticking everyone on the same level?

I wouldn't be against this, actually. Drop Trainer xp, level everyone up to 13, and level everyone simultaneously from now on based on significant event completion.

It would solve a lot of problems: no more gaming the system to gain trainer experience, catching pokemon and evolving them becomes more of a character choice, no one gets left behind in levels and everyone's more even in strength, there'd be less pressure to complete gym challenges since they'd just be for physical rewards and pokemon xp, the list goes on.

Speaking as one of the top level trainers with nothing to gain, I'd be up for a change like this.

[M0rtimer]

Yeah, I've been quietly mulling it over, I think with at least how we play that makes sense. It'd only fix trainer levels however, not necessarily pokemon levels.

[Dlover]

It could be an option if people are actually disgruntled about the level differences. They're generally rather minor, and in the case of Sam's last character, I think we decided the cause was mostly just that his sheet rarely got updated so a bunch of levels and exp were missed?

The thing about doing away with dexp or trainer xp overall is that trainer levels are entirely dependent on Mort actually remembering that levels are a thing he has to give out. And if someone has a cool thing they get the next level, they can't actively push for it, either, I guess. That's not relevant to me though, I don't think Alex has any cool features in his future.

[Arch Lich Burns]

Dlover you don’t need to be good at combat to be useful. Look at Haley, she doesn’t have any combat classes abd probably the least threatning person but because she can goad the enemies, that means they cannot use large attacks against someone else.

So did it become unbounded? I hope not cause that is pretty much the only way Willow stays living....

[M0rtimer]

Well that's why I'm asking the question, trying to figure that out. Though the question is not of what is most convenient but what seems most correct- I could see cases being made in any direction. In that stratagems could be considered static buffs that are applied for one combat at the cost of AP, but also that there has to be some way to remove them (besides knocking the pokemon out). From an "in character" perspective, it could be considered as either a special technique that was taught to a pokemon they just need to activate (for AP), or a special instruction they're giving that can't be continued if they get knocked out.

...Also, being completely honest, the whole harvest + sunlight within + phasing is such a specific edge-case that was clearly never intended to be possible that I should probably enforce some kind of limitation for it as a game master. On the other hand, it's a very interesting combo that was found so I don't want to just destroy it either.

[Dlover]

The fix is simple, Mort. Make pokemon battles a blood sport. If a trainer's pokemon can't be targeted because of phasing, then strike down the trainer. Works outside of official battles too

And yeah, Burns, I know Alex doesn't have to be that strong. I mean, he's *mostly* useless because we're Team Charm and as such he's not even the best talky person. But the mentor parts make him a valuable addition to the team. Sort of.

[Arch Lich Burns]

Oh yea, I don’t think devs were thinking much when they gave phantump line phasing due to it’s passive abilties of ingrain and harvest but I am not complaining.

it’s such a very unique situation where doing this in combat is viable, due to how phasing works, and is likely she would get hurt before phasing (if her defenses were weaker she wouldn’t been able to do that at all), and the fact that Haley got knocked out complicates things a bit. I don’t see myself doing this very often, espessially since I need to find more figy berries.

[Natrivv]

As a lower level player, I've never really felt under powered. But maybe that's more because Irene's skills are either more static, or can use the targets stats instead of her own.

While I wouldn't mind pokedex/misc being cut out since it is hard to justify without immediate threats catching pokemon because of Irene's character/personality.

It feels like the point of gym leaders would be lessened if we leveled up as a group. I could be at a higher level, but I made choices that make sense in character. I shouldn't be powered level just because choices I made left me slightly lower level.

[Dlover]

I think that leaves the two lowest level players in agreement, then? Unless there's someone else down on level 11 that I forgot about.

[Synch]

I'm level 12, with 40 total xp. 22 of that is dexp. The main reason I took levels in Capture Specialist is a) to make it easier to catch pokemon and b) to catch lots of pokemon for dexp. So if we take that away, it kinda makes one of my classes and part of my strategy pretty useless.

It would be nice if we had some way of boosting mons though. My main mon is level 30, other mons I'm wanting to use are level 22, and its hard to use them and level up in plot related battles. I'd have to spend a ton of time having trainer battles in the cities rather than joining everyone else on the story arc.

Not sure what the solution is? Just my 2 cents.

[M0rtimer]

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas! Now, time to get back into the swing of things I suppose.

Before anything else, let's resolve outstanding matters... I think the hex thing can be easily resolved as once per scene total. As for whether stratagems get unbound... I only really got 1.5 answers for that (What you hope the answer is is still not the same as what you think it should be) and they were conflicting, so... I think for now the answer will be that stratagems do become unbound if the trainer that made them gets knocked out?

With that out of the way, next point on the list is looking at the exp problem... Seems everyone is in favor of doing levels globally, at the least. So, that's what we'll do: All exp and milestones will be shared, and those who are not yet level 14(?) will be leveled to that, first.

That just leaves first question to be whether we want to abolish dexp too, or if that should from henceforth also become shared?

Additionally, should we try and do anything to make it easier to level up lower level pokemon? And if so, should we do that with captured Pokemon? One idea I'm having is that when releasing a pokemon, you can select another Pokemon you already own, and add to them an amount of levels equal to half of their level difference? (So for example, you have a lvl 20 pokemon and capture a lvl 50, you'd be able to add 15 levels)

Or what is the opinion on that matter? Would this incentivize catching them all too much and there should be a different solution? (I already doubled all exp gain for Pokemon, but it might still not be enough...)

[Arch Lich Burns]

Hm. sometimes there isn’t much level difference between the mons in the pc or are lower. What if you wanted to release a mon that is one you kept for a while and know that you are not going to use? Maybe for mons that are same or lower level than your mon that you release you get half of exp that it has to your mons?

[Dlover]

That idea would be difficult, Burns. If you have a level 30 pokemon and release a level 31, that level 30 then gets 630exp, which would be a total of six levels gained.

[SamWiser]

Maybe we could do something like the pokemon jobs in sword/shield? We lose the pokemon for a period of time (a day might be too long, but maybe half a day or something?) and when it gets back the pokemon has gained a certain amount of experience. We could base the amount of experience gained by how low level it is so we can get our low level pokemon up to speed quickly, but can't use it to power level our really strong ones.

[M0rtimer]

Yeah, frankly, if the problem is "Pokemon I want to release is lower level than all pokemon I already use", then I'm not sure if it's an actual problem because the current problem seems to be "I could catch this high level pokemon and instantly skip ten levels that would be super hard to grind otherwise." Assuming everyone is ok with the potential solution that releasing a pokemon => exp that is. It wouldn't really help with the "need" of capturing Pokemon, but at least it'd help solve the problem that one is conflicted IC/OOC about switching out pokemon efficiency wise compared to the ones that have become buddies.

The "pokejob" system I think could also work however. Though potentially problematic depending on how potent we'd make it if we ever do proper timeskips.

We could also say that, rather than abolishing dexp, that after equalizing everyone we make dexp communal as well?

Opinions are appreciated, because I feel like this solution while solving most problems, would perhaps only make the "gotta catch em all" one more prominent, and I'm not sure how many of you see that as an important issue

[Dlover]

We should make dexp communal before equalizing levels, rather than after. Logically speaking I don't think it makes any difference, but my dumb tired brain says doing that afterward is bad.
Okay, but dumb thought aside, communal dexp is a good idea, needs to be done correctly though, timing-wise. By which I mean it needs to be... Actually, before may actually be the proper timing, so maybe my dumb tired brain isn't that dumb. 'cause if dexp becomes communal after equalising levels, characters who have barely any dexp would get a bunch, and potentially gain some levels, but characters who have a bunch may not gain much and wouldn't gain many levels, which would ruin the equalising, and require it be done again.

[M0rtimer]

It'd only be communal for newly caught pokemon- Because doing it retroactively would be very annoying to do, I think. If one of you guys wants to preoccupy themselves with that and figure out who has caught what, however...

[Dusk9]

Any reason why we don't want to give Grimm the Bug artifact? From the sounds of things he doesn't particularly care which one he gets, after all.

And even if we don't want to go along with his plan in the long run, knowing that we have access to one should at the very least disrupt things enough to help rescue the hostages.