Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

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Davecom3
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Davecom3 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:03 pm

As it stands, unless bonus dice replace low rolls, it's better to have low amounts of dice rather than higher amounts.

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kida
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by kida » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:06 pm

I did some calculations on the dice rolls and I'll give you the info so you can see if this is what you intended:
For the lowest difficulty 4 (assuming rolling 4 and above add 1 to the counter, rolling 1 reduce one from the counter, and 0 is auto failure, counter need to be at least 3 for success ):
3 Dice - 25.7% for success
4 Dice - 35.14% for success
5 Dice - 41.31% for success
6 Dice - 43.08% for success
7 dice - 42.81% for success
8 Dice - 41.2% for success

As you can see, adding more than 6 Dice will be a mistake (so having an occupation for this roll could actually hurt you).

I actually have an excel where the difficulty is a variable, so I can easily give you numbers for other difficulties:
For difficulty 5:
3 Dice - 16.2% for success
4 Dice - 26.5% for success
5 Dice - 32.99% for success
6 Dice - 36.21% for success
7 dice - 37.25% for success
8 Dice - 36.88% for success

For difficulty 6:
3 Dice - 9.3% for success
4 Dice - 17.9% for success
5 Dice - 24.06% for success
6 Dice - 27.90% for success
7 dice - 29.94% for success
8 Dice - 30.65% for success

For difficulty 7:
3 Dice - 4.8% for success
4 Dice - 10.49% for success
5 Dice - 15.33% for success
6 Dice - 18.93% for success
7 dice - 21.31% for success
8 Dice - 22.7% for success

For difficulty 8:
3 Dice - 2.02% for success
4 Dice - 4.97% for success
5 Dice - 7.94% for success
6 Dice - 10.49% for success
7 dice - 12.47% for success
8 Dice - 13.89% for success

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:20 pm

Davecom3 wrote:As it stands, unless bonus dice replace low rolls, it's better to have low amounts of dice rather than higher amounts.
Yeah, but rolling (success +1) successes is a Something Interesting and +2 would be a Mysterious Event, so that's incentive to roll multiple dice to hope for greater effect. It's not just "roll enough just to succeed".

Kida, if your idea of the "original" three dice only canceled successes (and 0s did failure), what are the odds then?

Most people don't take time out to actually compute the odds, they think "more dice, better chances". That's probably why White Wolf games like Werewolf fell to the wayside, no one realized just what the odds exactly were and how it appears broken when one looks at the exact odds.

I might do Badge's idea, it does seem interesting.

Or maybe I'd make a flat percentile roll, and if say I rolled an 80 the action would be 80% successful... though that'd be a LOT of guesswork...
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ChuckDaRighteous
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by ChuckDaRighteous » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:49 pm

if only the first 3 dice count towards auto fail, you would always have 24.9% auto fail from 0s on any action. Thats 24.9%+ the failure rate from difficulty. I agree with kida you definitely need 0s to only count on the first 3 dice. The chance for success + 1 or +2 just isn't worth that huge failure rate.
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BadgeAddict
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by BadgeAddict » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:51 pm

To balance it better you could use a 10 again roll, where every 10 you rolled adds an additional roll.

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:38 pm

I've definitely got some tweaking to do then, since I never expected you guys to actually work out the odds (I didn't know them myself, so...)

If it ain't broke don't fix it, but those numbers of the last Civ reaaaaaaly didn't quantify exactly what you were capa--

Idea. Stick to the Aspects... but roll d10s equal to aspect level... each 0 would be a "negative" trait (unintended downsides to every action, after all), 8 would be Something Interesting, 9 a Mysterious Event (so two 8s would be a more powerful Interesting, etc), and 10 would add 20% to the original outcome (like a critical success)...

Or maybe roll percentiles on main Aspects alone, and d10s for each sub-Aspect level, akin to what someone suggested earlier, with more successes in one field meaning it improves faster or the Interesting or Event happens in that "sub field"... ... ... sounds complicated though. I'll have to think about it.
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kida
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by kida » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:21 am

Aegis - I calculated the Odds as a nice probability question ;)
I must admit it was a few years since I learned probability at the university.
I'm ok with low odds on SA/FH (failure could be fun also). Looking at the odds with option to 0 only in the original 3 Dice, it seems reasonable.
If you PM me your e-mail, I can send you the xls.

Probabilities for option to roll 0 on on the first 3 Dice:

Difficulty 4:
3 Dice - 25.7% for success
4 Dice - 38.65% for success
5 Dice - 49.99% for success
6 Dice - 57.33% for success
7 Dice - 62.68% for success
8 Dice - 66.36% for success

Difficulty 5:
3 Dice - 16.22% for success
4 Dice - 29.21% for success
5 Dice - 39.92% for success
6 Dice - 48.19% for success
7 Dice - 54.55% for success
8 Dice - 59.39% for success

Difficulty 6:
3 Dice - 9.39% for success
4 Dice - 19.72% for success
5 Dice - 29.11% for success
6 Dice - 37.14% for success
7 Dice - 43.84% for success
8 Dice - 49.37% for success

Difficulty 7:
3 Dice - 4.8% for success
4 Dice - 11.54% for success
5 Dice - 18.56% for success
6 Dice - 25.19% for success
7 Dice - 31.21% for success
8 Dice - 36.56% for success

Difficulty 8:
3 Dice - 2.02% for success
4 Dice - 5.47% for success
5 Dice - 9.61% for success
6 Dice - 13.96% for success
7 Dice - 18.26% for success
8 Dice - 22.37% for success

Difficulty 9:
3 Dice - 0.6% for success
4 Dice - 1.8% for success
5 Dice - 3.45% for success
6 Dice - 5.37% for success
7 Dice - 7.46% for success
8 Dice - 9.61% for success

Difficulty 10:
3 Dice - 0.07% for success
4 Dice - 0.24% for success
5 Dice - 0.51% for success
6 Dice - 0.86% for success
7 Dice - 1.27% for success
8 Dice - 1.73% for success

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NewOneAround
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by NewOneAround » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:35 am

There are a few ways to use your system without having a 27,27% auto fail:
its a fail when more 0 than 10 are rolled
Or
more than 33% of the rolls must be 0 to autofail (rounded up)
Or
0 means -2 successes and you set your critical failiure to: if you have less than -3 successes the roll is a critical failure

just some ideas.
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BadgeAddict
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by BadgeAddict » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:21 am

Kida, could you run another string of numbers based on changing a few potential things.

1st potential change: When you roll a 1 or 0 (which removes a success) a "Red" d10 Die is rolled to confirm. If confirmed, it counts as a anti-success, otherwise nothing.

2nd potential change: If 1's and 0's count against you, 10's allow either (1. Reroll a die that failed or 2. roll a new die)

3rd potential change: Instead of counting 1's and 0's against you, roll another die outside of the main roll called the "success die". The success die is a d10, and if it rolls a 1 or 0, automatic failure.

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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Kelten » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:54 am

I kind of like the idea that some things go bad and others go wellyou win the fight, but lose a arm!

Sugestion: 0 and 1 will count agains you as bad stuff, but you will still succeed the action if the other roles are high enough.
That is to say: all 1 and 0-os are bad stuff even if the action succeeds
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kida
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by kida » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:08 am

Badge - I'll run the numbers over the weekend (if I'll have time)

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BadgeAddict
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by BadgeAddict » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:12 am

Well, I mean, if they make it better, but, If they'll make it worse then nvm. Either way thanks!

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:36 am

Considering making the base roll d200 instead of d100 and sticking to the current Aspects system, but I'll wait on Kida's numbercrunching first.

Edited to add: Maybe I should just roll 10d10 against a difficulty flat out, with bonuses to the roll based on what the Civ has accomplished / racial modifiers, with 1s cancelling successes / critfailing if no successes showing.
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:40 am

They lied to me. They fucking lied to me. They said "no inspection" until the 28th. I may be out on the street in less than 3 hours, depending on a couple of phone calls. All my plans, ruined. My father doesn't clean out his inbox on his phone because he's a damn hoarder. Goody.

EDIT: Phew. False alarm. Looks like I'm safe... for another week until the inspector gets back from vacation.
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Davecom3
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Davecom3 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:03 am

Or maybe roll percentile dice twice per action. Once based on how likely you believe the action should be to pull off, and a second to check for unforeseen side-effects.

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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by BadgeAddict » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:58 am

I do like the idea of bad things happening at the same time of success though.

Lets say you roll enough successes to succeed, but also a few 0's or 1's. Instead of the plan simply failing, it succeeds but with certain "consequences". From now on, let's assume that if the number of successes are rolled it is a success (BUT)...the big B word, but, there are consequences to your actions if the roll contains 1's and 0's.

example: The tribe wants to mine out some precious gems and they actually succeed at it, but behind the gemstones is a poisonous black liquid which spills out, killing the miners....(this would obviously be deadly)

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ChuckDaRighteous
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by ChuckDaRighteous » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:19 pm

Or +1 for 10s, -1 for 0s. If positive then add a good positive effect. The more positive it is the greater the effect. if negative then add a bad negative effect. The more negative the the greater the effect is.
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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:02 pm

ChuckDaRighteous wrote:Or +1 for 10s, -1 for 0s. If positive then add a good positive effect. The more positive it is the greater the effect. if negative then add a bad negative effect. The more negative the the greater the effect is.
I like this. I'll mess around with it in my notes. Right now I'm mixing all the racial pros and cons together and may just turn -everything- into universe tweaks...
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madmartin26
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by madmartin26 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:16 pm

I like the idea of having rolls of the highest value be an extra good thing and rolls of the lowest value being an extra bad thing, but i feel compelled to point out that a d10 will only have values between 1 and 10(or 0 and 9, depending how you look at it). a dice that had 0-10 on it would be a d11. ;)

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:58 pm

I've come up with another little thing to make the months potentially interesting, which I call The Hazard Bar. It starts at 0 and increases by 3d7 per month. When it hits 100, a "misfortune" occurs (that's why they're called Hazards). These are little tweaks or troubles that aren't game breaking (unless I roll from the Really Evil set). They are minor, usually used to give "fluff", or to open the way for a potential storyline. There are multiple "sets" of Hazards each with a theme, and one set will be chosen at random every time the Hazard Bar goes off.

Hazards are divided up sets, each with its own themed events. I haven't gotten a full list of potential sets or ideas, but this is just a sample of sets:

Person of Interest (Day In The Life Of The Village sort of thing)
The Item Script or the Item Set (the two are different with a 50% for either or; the Script has weird stuff like the Giant Adamantium Penis, an I-Don't-Get-It Machine, Silly Putty, Explosive Fruit Punch, Black Mage's Underwear, Giant Rubber Sperm, etc. while the Item Set generates useful day-to-day supplies)
Environmental Hazards (things like big storms, earthquakes, caves, etc. Nothing game breaking, but something to monkeywrench you on occasion)
Animal Happenstance (Migrations, big animal attacks, swarms of wolfpacks, etc)
Really Evil (These can be very much worse than your usual situation. Potentially a real source of trouble)
The Slots (I'll roll 3d10 as a slot machine, so 7-7-7 would be greatly beneficial, etc).
Benefit of the Doubt ("Beneficial" hazards, strokes of good luck)

Just a thought. Whaddya think? (After monday, I may be offline, depending on when the eviction is coming)
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NewOneAround
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by NewOneAround » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:32 am

Sounds funny.
Benefit of the Doubt? ^^ Great we found a huge deposite of meteoritie... In aproximatly 10 seconds it will crash in the middle of the city ;)
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BadgeAddict
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by BadgeAddict » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:15 am

re-quoting the words of Aegis here, though as he said all is subject to change:
Aegis J Hyena wrote:You can never have too many tabs! o:)
► Show Spoiler
(These are subject to change, but they're what I have in mind for Civilization 6 once I find a new place to live and settle down in. 8 to start, I'll take the top 5, then roll 3 randomly. That's the plan, anyway. Feel free to suggest more. More tabs! ALL OF THE TABS! oh gods I should go to bed it's after midnight)

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madmartin26
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by madmartin26 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:38 am

Honestly, all of those seem pretty cool to me. If you want me to i could probably come up with a few more, but we seem to have a lot already.

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BadgeAddict
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by BadgeAddict » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:56 am

^I only reposted what he said word for word.

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Fri May 02, 2014 9:04 am

Here's an updated list of tweaks and races. If you have ideas, go ahead and suggest them as I'd rather have too many rather than too few. Plan is top 7 tweaks, 3 others rolled randomly, the 3 that are the bottom 10 for voting become "unlockable" later. Right now the landlord fled, so I'm living on borrowed time; I'm not starting a new Civilization until I have a stable living space. So it might be in the fall at the earliest.

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION: This is just background tweaking, since the stuff in this set isn't really able to be filed under "Environment" specifically.

.

ENVIRONMENT: Multiple votes here will be combined. Aquatic + Rocky would equal survival in underwater mountains. Dry + Aquatic might mean a desert planet with no land life but a rich ocean. Dry + Humid might equal a desert planet with a very large oasis and jungle around it. And yes, I'll think of something if say you decide to vote for an obscene amount of environments. Your starting location will default to any environments you pick as Tweaks, or randomly if no environments are taken.

.

MAGIC: Yes, Dead Magic Zone and Ley Line Node stack, providing a... unique situation, should you pursue it.

.

PEOPLE AND BODY: Yes, you can pick both Population + and -, and you'll get the effects of both (so -10% population, no rogue faction and all that gear). Is it worth it, is the question, as supplies can be expended quickly.

.

FOOD IS GOOD: I added a couple here since just Carni and Herbi are boring on their own. These'll overrule a creature's natural diet, so you can have Carni-Ponies or Herbi-Orcs or somethin'.

.

OTHER STUFF: Random stuff I couldn't fit anywhere else.

.[tabs: Animal Riders] 10% of the total population will own a Dire (something) that is domesticated and can be ridden. On the other hand, it's also more mouths to feed, train, house, and prevent from in-fighting in the case of multiple species.
[tabs: Distressingly Furry] Your nearest neighbors are (neutral) Anthro-Kin and no nearby neighbor within a year's travel will be "humanoid"; it will all be animal based (Lycanthropes, Wemics, Skaven, Garou, etc). On the other hand, actions are affected by the phases of the moon (+30% difficulty for Actions under a new moon, to -30% difficulty for a Full Moon) and celestial events / omens will have much much greater impact. Moonphase is randomly rolled when actions are done unless you say when you're doing it; if everyone does everything at full moon, that will soon become predictable to their enemies...
[tabs: Doomsday Clock] The Civilization is built close to the realm's Doomsday. The Civilization will be one of the very few who survives (not without heavy loss, but it WILL survive) the abrupt change from the World of Light to the World of Ruin. On the other hand, resources you control will be vastly valuable to those others that do survive. Grants 3 extra Tweaks.
[tabs: Dragon's Blood] The Civilization's members are descendants of an ancient Wyrm, 1 in 3 is related to the dragon directly, 1 in 45 has markings declaring heritage, 1 in 70 has large wings for flight, 1 in 90 has Breath; PCs will have a 1 in 4 chance to have any or all four of these. On the other hand, you may suffer the same weaknesses dragons have (greed, elemental attacks, Familicide, etc).
[tabs: Elemental Shift] One element is dominant here while its opposition is weak. Begin with a large (dominant element) Elemental. On the other hand, you'll have rival elementals in no time flat trying to cancel each other out while they try to cancel you from the mortal realm!
[tabs: Elementally Torn] Elements are wild here and the realm is geographically unstable (earthquakes, heavy storms, etc). You may run into random Elementals of random sizes which you can befriend, control or dispel and destroy. On the other hand, elementally unstable areas are a mad sorcerer's playground...
[tabs: Lycanthropy] 20% of the Civilization's population is a Were(mammal, chosen randomly), with power based on the animal rolled. On the other hand, this is not the controllable type of lycanthropy (nor will there be one!) :P
[tabs: Marked for Death] Something big's targeted the Civilization for some form of revenge. Could be an army, a dragon, or something else "large". On the other hand you're already wise to the tricks of the revenge-minded, which will allow you to plan accordingly for bonuses against a favored enemy.
[tabs: Mysterious Benefactor] Someone rich and powerful built your citadel for you. Very defensive and chock full of traps and resources to begin with. On the other hand the devil will demand his fiddle of gold back at some point. Costs 2 Tweaks.
[tabs: Pirates] Each vote starts aboard their own ship (so it's a medium to large ship) and you start as an armada from a central island under your control. Maximum of ten ships (so 20 votes get 140 per ship, thus larger ships...). On the other hand, there is *always* a bigger fish than you and the ocean is deep indeed...
[tabs: Resource Poor] There's a lack of resources here, or they've been stripmined. On the positive, no one would think of looking for you here... and something might have been... missed. On the negative, there's a distinct lack of starting supplies and no easily-accessible help or civilizations.
[tabs: Resource Rich] The Civilization starts with access to 5 high quality resources and two "Exotic" or very high quality resource. Costs two Tweaks instead of one. On the other hand, you've got 3 nearby tribes of something(s) that want those resources as well.
[tabs: Spiritually Open] The veil between worlds is shattered in places and allows access to the Spirit World (and local control of it) far easier. On the other hand, I hope you brought a spirit world defense force...
[tabs: Spiritually Sealed] The veil between worlds is strong, disallowing access to the spirit world and other planes without major effort. Dead things will find it very hard to pass on without help. On the other hand it works both ways, so undead that ARE on this side will be far more powerful than normal.
[tabs: Steampunk] Technology-based rolls have a 25% reduction in difficulty and you have access to a precious metal mine. On the other hand there's a well-established rival civilization that wants control of your resources (or you) and a truce is not an option.
[tabs: Technologically Inept] The Civilization's a bunch of neanderthals. Technology-related rolls can never be less than 90+ in difficulty. More advanced than Stone Age cannot be replicated. Metals can never be smelted unless you steal someone's forges/smelters. On the other hand it also grants a council of 6 Masters ("Elders") to start and an additional two Tweaks.
[tabs: Vorpal Animals] The animals in the surrounding lands are hostile large/giant predators. Meat from hunts is increased by 50%. On the other hand, "named" Big Animals will be too close for comfort and quite clever...
[tabs: Wyrmhoard] Oh hey, your lair was founded on a Dragon's Hoard. Begin with a bunch (3d10) of random magical stuff (2/3 of it consumables, such as potions and wands) and 8000 GP. On the other hand, you might want to defend that hoard FAST, especially if the dragon turns out to be still alive...[/tabs]

=========================================================================================================================

Here's the list of available races, along with their Pros and Cons. Yes, I'm even including Humans this time if you want a "regular" Civilization. The top four votes for race will be in the starting civilization. When you do your vote, also list how you want the 70 members of that race to be divided up, and I will add everything together. You can make up your own job titles/classes and I will fit them in, so if one person votes goblins and has it divided between 35 healers and 35 arcane casters, another can vote goblins and say 35 warriors, 10 "orb slingers" and 25 "stone slammers", for example. Breeding rate is listed as a percentage; I'll take the current population, modify it by current events, add bonuses from Home And Family, and then apply the new modified percentage. Garou are the exception; population there will be 6 Garou per PC (the PC plus their pack)

As a general rule:

HUMANOIDS are uncomfortable around Lawful Races, and afraid of Big Guys.
LAWFUL RACES are uncomfortable around Humanoids. If there are two or more Lawful Races, they will attempt to tag-team the Humanoids into subservience.
BIG GUYS don't like each other, and especially dislike Outcasts (but not enough for open fighting at the start). Two or more Big Guys is dangerous; three or more is asking for trouble.
OUTCASTS are uncomfortable around Lawful Races, and are afraid of Big Guys.
Skaven hate everyone.

The following combinations are currently in a state of open war: Humans and Anthro-Kin, Drow and Elves, Dwarves and Goblins/Kobolds, Centaurs and Wemics, Garou and Orcs/Drow. These combinations are asking for the whole thing to self destruct right from the outset.

Player characters will, to start, be restricted to the top four races voted for, once the composition of the tribe is set up. Pros and cons will be averaged (so in the case of three races being voted on with social difficulties of +20%, +20% and +50% then the total difficulty would be +30%). Some things that are alien to other races (such as the Formicids' unique various skills) will remain with their race only rather than potentially spreading to the rest of the races but you won't know which skills would filter down to the entire civilization. If the various Food Tweaks are taken, they will rule over natural tendencies (so Ponies, who are naturally Herbivores, will be Carnivores instead if that Tweak is taken).

THE HUMANOIDS

.

THE LAWFUL RACES

.

THE OUTCASTS

.

THE BIG GUYS

.
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