Civilization 6: Rules posted for discussion

[BadgeAddict]

NOMADIC SPACE PIRATES!!!! Not what I'm going for but it could be fun.

HUZZAH!!!!

[madmartin26]

NOMADIC SPACE PIRATES!!!! Not what I'm going for but it could be fun.

HUZZAH!!!!

YESSSSSSSSSSSS. This must happen! Come, we must conspire for it's creation.

Also, thanks for adding in pirates for me, that was really nice of you Aegis (I was already happy just that the option existed, but hearing that it came into being somewhat because of me is actually really cool).

[Aegis J Hyena]

Heh. On top of that I'm going to be either putting forth a vote or playing this one, myself.

I can only imagine what would happen if you and ThinksLogically were to team up in real life...

[Aegis J Hyena]

.[tabs: H2Ovore] The Civilization gets all its nutrition from the most basic of elixirs: Water. On the other hand, if your sources of water are even the slightest bit tainted...
[tabs: "Z" Syndrome] The Civilization's members have a 1/350 chance to have a member both immune to scrying and intimately interwoven with the Spirit World, existing within both worlds at once in more than just a figurative way. Allows fine manipulation of the Spirit World using Sorcery instead of Spiritual. Costs three Tweaks. On the other hand, such power is barely able to be controlled and their nightmares may become reality, so as to prey on the civilization. If you read a certain webcomic, the "Z" stands for "Zimmy"
[tabs: Resource Poor-] There are -no- resources to speak of save for the barest of minimums, although your chosen landfall is on a trade route between two other civilizations. On the other hand, is there really -nothing- here? Nature provides, after all... if you're clever. Grants 2 extra Tweaks.
[tabs: Mimigas]

The sentient rabbits breed every year at a rate of 95%. Their alignment starts as Neutral Good.

Pro: Mate Like... Well, Yeah (Unaffected by population-damaging effects)
Pro: Friendly (Social Difficulty drops by 15%)
Pro: Expert Cultivators (farms have twice the normal yield)
Pro: Ranged Specialists (-3 to enemy AC and +3 to own AC when using or dealing with ranged attacks)
Con: Psychological Weakness to the color red (the more red seen, the greater the penalty)
Con: Cowards vs Magic (Sorcery Difficulty increases by 25% and Spiritual by 15%)
Con: Somewhat Frail (-2 Wounds on the wound list, -2 to Fortitude saves)
Con: Weakness to Mind Affecting effects (most notably Berserk) and transmutation (automatically fails the save)
Racial Power: Crystology. Knowledge of gems and jewels, as well as magic regarding the same, will be far easier to research, cast and come by.

[tabs: Skyborne]

A humanlike Avian species, these aren't the Kenku you're so familiar with. Skyborne breed every 2 years at a rate of 50%. Kids take 2 years to mature. Their alignment starts as Neutral.

Pro: Armor Piercing Beak (moreso if the beak is armored)
Pro: Spear Mastery (+6 to hit and damage)
Pro: Wings (Medium speed over land)
Pro: Birds of a Feather (start with Gryphon, Hippogryph allies/mounts)
Con: Cannot wield Earth Magic (and have lesser control over water magic)
Con: Very Frail (Take 3 extra wounds on a hit)
Con: Dislike of Groundwalkers (Social penalty of -10 except for those who live in mountains)
Con: Fast Metabolism (Requires 20% more food)
Racial Power: Lifebringer. The Civilization's souls can Reincarnate (as a Finest Hour) upon death.

[tabs: The Maeterra]

Giant sentient raccoons (about as big as a dwarf). Maeterra breed every 2 years at a rate of 35%. Kids take 3 years to mature. Their alignment starts as Neutral Good.

Pro: Paws of a Craftsman (+10 to all rolls involving construction of any kind)
Pro: Healthy (+2 wounds)
Pro: Sword and Board (-10% to Warfare rolls when using Sword and Shield)
Pro: Smart (Research difficulties drop by 15)
Con: Anti-Technology (-25 to all Technology rolls)
Con: Hoarders (There may be faction infighting)
Con: Very Magic Poor (One caster per 250 members)
Con: Actively Hunted (Maetarra meat is incredibly nutritious)
Racial Power: Masterwork Trade. The quality of the Civilization's goods is on par with Dwarves, or better if Dwarves are available to help.[/tabs]

I'm wondering if I shouldn't just make a series of animal entries for the most common types of potential "animal" characters and have them all be separate (I can already think of felines, wolves, and raccoons). Though too many races is worse than too few.

[madmartin26]

Maybe you could keep the Anthro-Kin 'race', but if it gets selected, have people vote on the top three of the animal races you have listed to make up the Anthro-Kin 'race'. It will mean more work for you making all of the animal races, but you seem to be enjoying it , and it will make sure that the number of main races doesn't grow too big.

That said, as long as you have a limit on how many races can be selected (Top 3 or four voted for, or something like that), i don't see any problem with making as many races as you want.

[Aegis J Hyena]

I think I'm done with races. I just like raccoons, the idea of an avian race (blame Starbound) and the rabbit-things from Cave Story were a silly addition. I doubt they'd even be picked. I was considering "invention" tweaks, seeing as how people seem to build the same inventions for the last couple civs, but then I thought against it.

I do want to start but things are still too unstable. Landlord's sniffing around looking like a lean and hungry wolf, anyone who can help me out is either politically cockblocked due to the landlord throwing huge chests of cash, or out of range until the 20th+... meh. Glad I set the potential start date for september.

[ChuckDaRighteous]

Maybe you could keep the Anthro-Kin 'race', but if it gets selected, have people vote on the top three of the animal races you have listed to make up the Anthro-Kin 'race'. It will mean more work for you making all of the animal races, but you seem to be enjoying it , and it will make sure that the number of main races doesn't grow too big.

That said, as long as you have a limit on how many races can be selected (Top 3 or four voted for, or something like that), i don't see any problem with making as many races as you want.

I like this. Vote on a mashing together of animals. Each animal has 1 pro and 1 con. Making it so after 3 animals are chosen you have a full race.

[D34dlock]

So Resource Poor has now been changed & grants 2 Tweaks.

If your going to find the most common animals you could ask for suggestions & take the ones that seem to fit. There are too many Animal types. The best way might be to vote for the top 5-6 or have Each voter pick 1 for his or her 70 members. If no one wants to play them, none are in the village.

Like:

Just the mammals:
Bovidae, (Bison, African buffalo, Water buffalo, Antelopes, Gazelles, Sheep, Goats, Muskoxen, Domestic cattle)
Canines, (Coyote, Dog, Fox, Wolf)
Cervidae, (white-tailed deer, mule deer, elk, moose, red deer, reindeer (caribou), fallow deer, roe deer, pud├║, chital)
Chiroptera, (bats) Eat Fruit, Insects, or Blood
Felines, (Domestic Cat, Bobcat, Cheetah, Leopard, Lion, Lynx, Panther, Jaguar, Tiger) ext.
Lagomorphs, (Hare, Pikas, Rabbits)
Ursidae, (All Bears, Giant Pandas)
Musteloidea, (Badgers, Ferrets, Minks, Martens, Otters, Red Panda, Skunks, Stoats, Tayra, Weasels, Wolverines)
Marsupial, There is not a lot of them so put them all together (Opossums, Possums, Bandicoots, Kangaroos, Tasmanian Devil) Ext
Procyon, (Raccoons, Ringtails, Coatis, Kinkajous, Olingos, Olinguitos)
Primates, (Apes, Humans (technically Apes), Lemurs, Monkeys)
Rodents, (Mice, Rats, Squirrels, Porcupines, Beavers, Guinea pigs, Hamsters)
Scandentia (Treeshrews)
Soricomorpha (Moles, Shrews)
Suidae, (Boars, Hogs, Domestic Pigs)

Rabbits are somehow not Rodents. Taken from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodent
Members of non-rodent orders, such as Chiroptera (bats), Scandentia (treeshrews), Marsupials (opossums, possums, bandicoots), Soricomorpha (shrews and moles), Lagomorpha (hares, rabbits and pikas), and mustelid carnivores, such as weasels and mink, are sometimes confused with rodents

Sorry if this post is information overload. Even so I probably missed something.

Like:

Avians, (Birds) Too many to count

Reptiles, (Lizards, Snakes) Ext

Amphibians, (Frogs, Toads, Salamanders) Ext

[Aegis J Hyena]

So Resource Poor has now been changed & grants 2 Tweaks.

Well, there's Resource Poor and Resource Poor- (the latter of which has less resources than the first; Poor- grants the tweaks). I added Poor- since I already had Resource Rich and Rich+. Might as well swing both ways.

And yeah, I think I'm done with races. If Animal and Anthrokin are both chosen, it'll just mean stronger animal blood (1/3 humanish, very primal, at home on all fours or on two legs, either or)

[D34dlock]

I'm not familiar with Cave Story. I am however playing FF12. I thought you'd go with the Viera. I'll go check out Cave Story.

[Aegis J Hyena]

Not interested in the FFs after 9.

You never heard of Cave Story? Oh gods, you don't know what you're missing. The game's 5+ years old (one guy made it, alone) and is free; someone released a remastered version on Steam a while back. Do some googling before buying the Steam version so you can play the original in all its 8bit glory.

[Aegis J Hyena]

Bumping the thread a little bit, only because I am planning to extend invitations for the game to a few boards on /b/ and a couple webcomic forums. I know 4chan isn't the best place to troll for players, but /b/'s expected to be a shithole. Most people CAN be civil (and failing that I'll just sic Wolfie or Moose on them). Do you guys have any problem with me recruiting people from 4chan and a couple "shameless self promotion" threads of various webcomics I read? This next Civ stands to be the greatest ever and I want as many as I can (player cap is 15 or 20 but I have measures in place to make people want to vote/play without a character).

[BadgeAddict]

"this post is me saving my place as 1st player of Civ 6"

[NewOneAround]

Nice try but I am sure some players already asked for a place by PM

[Aegis J Hyena]

I haven't gotten any PMs, and I expect upwards of 30+ players if not more for the next Civ (at 70 population per vote, that's a population of 2100 to start). I'm not reserving spaces for anyone. Just vote when the time comes.

Debated whether posting the rules in a recruitment thread would be plausible, but decided against it. I want my living situation stable before I pull out the rulesets and lay Civ 6 out.

[ChuckDaRighteous]

...but I have measures in place to make people want to vote/play without a character).

Now my curiosity is peaked.

I have no problem with a large number of players from all over. Its your game, run it the way you want. It sounds like you've turned this into a rather epic project and I'm looking forward to seeing you pull it off.

[madmartin26]

Yeah, i don't mind shameless recruiting either. It may get a bit hectic, but i welcome the extra characters because it will result in more people for my character(s?) to interact with.

If you're planning on recruiting now, has the start date for the game moved up?

[Aegis J Hyena]

As I wrote in the Random thread earlier: In other news, writing out plot points for Civ 6. One per game month. That's 12 months over 30 game years. 360 plot points. This Civilization is going to be the best yet. A -real- storyline. Each game year marked as an Episode, 5 Episodes to an Act... the problem is that no plan survives contact with the enemy. and I have more than enough egg puns for titles of Episodes... I have to find a way to keep things open enough to take into account the actions of the Civilization, without railroading you down a plot track, because then it's not free will, is it? If you Critical and discover something early on meant for mid-game... heh.

And no. I'm not bringing anything out or "opening entries" until I've successfully moved and re-settled. Whenever that might be. Aiming for September. Could be earlier, could be later.

[D34dlock]

I'll be looking forward to playing.

[Aegis J Hyena]

New idea. I do not know if I mentioned this earlier, but I've tweaked it since the last mention, if I did.

That idea is of the Heralds. This game, I will be promoting five players to Herald status each month. They get to "direct" the Civilization as a whole in a general aspect, saying what the general public is going to focus on (this can be an Action different from the write up's choices; generally limited to a sentence or two sentences at the very most). In effect it is the "common person's" Standard Action. I won't even roll this, it will be assumed to be moderately successful (but never a crit). The Action should be left fairly broad, such as "focus on farming" or "focus on scouting/exploring, maybe in X direction" or "focus on magic with interest on fire"... things like that. For every 7 AP spent from the general pool, they may make one extra "broad" Action to a maximum of 21 AP (which would be roughly a paragraph's worth of Actions).

There are five Heralds, four named as an Ace from the Tarot deck: The Ace of Swords (Military might and defense, where to go, what to train, who to piss off, who to piss on), the Ace of Wands (Magical might, both in its research and its applications), the Ace of Cups (Cultural and Spiritual might, dealing with other societies and the spirit realm) and the Ace of Pentacles (Material might, allocation of resources for building things). The last Herald is the Fool (named more for fool's luck than stupid moves) that is an all-around general Herald... a Utility Herald, so to speak. Their Action has a chance to Critical, but only if A) no AP was spent with any of the Aces and B) the Fool spends 25 Action Points and 10 Mastery Points to "Fool's Luck" their way through things. If the Fool ends up Critical-ing (unmodified d100 roll, 95+) the Action goes off with the power of a Finest Hour. If the Fool critfails (5 or below), three "Hazards" will go off at once.

Which makes me think of another situation. If I'm going to be pulling in people from web boards, forums and 4chan, I'm expecting 30-50+ players easily. I can't keep track of everyone's SAs and FHs and stories by myself, and I'm a perfectionist (sorry Badge, don't want your help on this)... so I'm thinking of doing a "turn order" or something. What I was thinking was each game year I'll roll for initiative three times (unmodified d100s). I'll take the number of players and divide by 12 (so if we had 36 players, each month has three people able to act) and divide them up into the 12 months. That would be 3 actions available (three init rolls) though, and I know one or two people stockpiled SAs/FHs and blew them all in one year. Thoughts and ideas?

[Aegis J Hyena]

No response after 3 days? Guess people are just waiting. Heh. I know I am... just need stable living quarters first otherwise I would have already started...

[D34dlock]

Which makes me think of another situation. If I'm going to be pulling in people from web boards, forums and 4chan, I'm expecting 30-50+ players easily. I can't keep track of everyone's SAs and FHs and stories by myself, and I'm a perfectionist (sorry Badge, don't want your help on this)... so I'm thinking of doing a "turn order" or something. What I was thinking was each game year I'll roll for initiative three times (unmodified d100s). I'll take the number of players and divide by 12 (so if we had 36 players, each month has three people able to act) and divide them up into the 12 months. That would be 3 actions available (three init rolls) though, and I know one or two people stockpiled SAs/FHs and blew them all in one year. Thoughts and ideas?

Having the ability to use FH's & SA's be random may cause problems with player agency.

If you're going to do the turn order thing would having the turn order locked to the month be what you want? Imagine everyone having an astrological sign rolled randomly & getting their FH on that month & their SA's on the month before & or the month after. If you want 3 SA's have the third one be the month opposite the FH & up the DC or something. 36 players would spread out 3 for each month, 48 would be 4, & 60 would be 5. Would we need SA's if it's 3 player actions per month? Would we need to regenerate our FH's?

[BadgeAddict]

I thought there was a player cap of 20 anyways?

Besides, I really think you should wait until some kind of an official sound off of players who want to play before you begin to make decisions like that (of which I'm not sure I'm a fan of)

Because, from starting day to 1 "game year" in, we typically go from ~20 to ~10 players...meaning in 1 game year, half of your playing stock is cut in half.

Because of that, I almost wonder what would happen if you moved it from 5 votes for a character to 12 votes needed.

12 votes needed would thin the herd until only the dedicated players are still around, the colony will be slightly more established and then you can decide if you have too many players and need to bring in some kind of measures like you're talking about.

Also, waiting 1 game year (and hopefully thinning down to only dedicated players will eliminate a ton of characters who are no longer controlled.

just saying

[ChuckDaRighteous]

The problem I see with this is we get an update and say "oh cool this is an opportunity for me to... oh wait I can't act, its not my month." I understand trying to limit the work load but there are better ways to do it. Like only granting 3 SA and 1 FH per year. That means we only get 4 actions per year. However if you did have 36 players it would only average 12 actions per month. Yes there would be months where there would be a higher than average actions and more work, but its the nature of the beast. Too many people (myself included) would be frustrated to no end if we couldn't act when we wanted. Particularly if I rolled early 1 year and late another, I could potentially have 22 turns where I could do absolutely nothing.

And I'm not a fan of 12 votes. I understand weeding out the riff-raff but I'd still rather get to the action sooner. 6-8 maybe, but 12 is too many.

And if keeping track is an issue, you can request that in addition to reposting votes, people also copy/paste other peoples actions in spoilers to make it easier.

[BadgeAddict]

There should be a way (perhaps through research)....(by someone chaotic evil)....to sacrifice player-characters who haven't acted in awhile (gone inactive) and harvest their SA & FH from them into some sort of tribe pool, perhaps in the form of action points. Inactive players is annoying...

edit1:
I would like to add, that i do like the idea of heralds.

edit2:
But i still plan to spend alot of effort to get nomadic space pirates.

edit3:
Another Suggestion: Instead of allowing the kind of food we eat to be dictated by world tweaks, what if each race at their own special thing. This would cause us, the players, to spend more time in thought about what races we want to pick. As some, perhaps the stronger ones, would eat specific kinds of food and/or larger amounts of it.