Twitter: [now] new colourist, again.

[BopEuph]

I think, with people seeming to create accounts for the sake of trolling, it might be time to lock the thread.

If you think this is trolling you need to look up the definition before you make yourself look like a moron.

What I said is irrefutable fact, you can't disagree with it, that's the funny thing about it

Pretty sure I understand the word perfectly fine. No need for name-calling, either. And yes, I can disagree about it. I guess that's the funny part.

[Overshot]

5. Did you seriously imply I should contact every single person I think is a fanboy and write them a PM? I don't have an issue with a specific person but rather a whole group of them.
6. The rules on these forums are way to harsh and seriously remind me of some form of repressive government.

This forum is technically a private setting. Participation is voluntary and regulated, the same as you can evict someone from your house if they're being crude/aggressive/disruptive/etc. Personally I find it pleasant that we can have arguments over various things - though Controversy is a more laid back place than you'd expect - precisely because there are boundaries to keep things from getting personal. If there's substance to a debate, it continues no matter the topic, but flame wars close quickly.

And no, he was saying you can PM a mod if you have an issue with another member. If you have a problem with the community at large, then you may not want to participate in this forum.

That is a very bad analogy, really. You might want to work on that.

I should PM a mod if I think someone is being a fanboy? I think the moderators would have their hands very full if people would do that

I think, with people seeming to create accounts for the sake of trolling, it might be time to lock the thread.

Try checking when this account was created. Also, even if I had just created it 5 minutes ago, how is my opinion less valid?

What I can't understand is what contribution you (I forget your name dude, but we all know who I'm talking to) f

Oh damn, such passive aggression. That hurt.

What good does posting this rampant vitriol actually do?

Tarol is a real live human being, not an automaton there for your amusement. We don't know what's going on, only that it is a private matter. He could be dealing with mental health issues, physical health issues, grief due to significant loss, family troubles (like illness of his parents or children) or technological/legal difficulty or even just burnout, all of which it is perfectly reasonable for anyone to take time off work to deal with without having people hate them for it.

Simple as that.

He could be, but the way he's interacting with his most important aspect of earning a living (his readers) is downright rude, unprofessional and disrespective. How many times do I have to say that? And someone just not showing up for work, not letting their employer know what's going on (I'm not implying we're his employer, even though that IS debatable - after all, it was YOUR analogy), wouldn't result in your boss being perfectly understandable of your circumstance after months of absolute silence on your part. Imagine what would happen if after all that you said "I'm coming back to work tomorrow, I promise" and then not showing up/staying silent for 3 more days.

[planinarmani]

It is neither rude nor disrespectful nor unprofessional. It is simply the business he runs and the product he offers. Again, you can choose to partake of his product or not.

His "product" has been advertised to come once a week, not to mention the numerous times he changed that and failed to deliver what he promised. It in fact IS disrespectful and it IS unprofessional. If you can't see that I suggest making an appointment with a doctor.

[mustache_man]

Your choices are limited to this: Take part of the service offered or don't.

I have a hard time picturing you as a successful business owner if that's the way you view your relationship with your customers/clients. Obviously nobody can MAKE you do things in a way you're not comfortable with. But if you stretch the deadlines you set for yourself constantly (and this has been somewhat of an issue with this comic since it was black and white - although back then it was more of a hobby), I somehow don't think you'd do anywhere near as well as you could.

Also, the McDonald's situation makes nos sense. This would be more like complaining about McDonalds taking half an hour to get your order ready while claiming it it will be real quick.

[LAYF]

[mod="LooksAtYouFunny"]

This is truly an outrage. Thunt obviously doesn't give a flying arse about his watchers, even though his entire house has been funded by his fanbase only.

The fact that this man is as lazy as he is makes me seriously question how he would have performed in a REAL job. I suppose he would have a quote on quote "nervous breakdown" if he had to work for longer than 2 hours a day.

Here is an idea thunt a.k.a. lazy mofo:: get a job or stick to your schedule. If these conditions are not met all you will ever have is the most blind incapable of thinking for themselves die hard fanboys following you.


Cheers!

planinarmani aka Overshot, this is your first official warning, creation of multiple accounts with the purpose of trolling is not allowed. following violations of the rules will result in regulated ability to post, then temp ban in increasing amounts of time, and lastly perma ban, this ban will be made on username as well as IP.[/mod]

[LAYF]

Nervous breakdowns are real and not funny.

Die lonely, dickbag.

Knucklekraken! While I agree that breakdowns are real and not funny, we do not accept the bashing and name calling used in your post, this is an unofficial warning, please moderate your language.

[MakesNoSense]

This is truly an outrage. Thunt obviously doesn't give a flying arse about his watchers, even though his entire house has been funded by his fanbase only.

The fact that this man is as lazy as he is makes me seriously question how he would have performed in a REAL job. I suppose he would have a quote on quote "nervous breakdown" if he had to work for longer than 2 hours a day.

Here is an idea thunt a.k.a. lazy mofo:: get a job or stick to your schedule. If these conditions are not met all you will ever have is the most blind incapable of thinking for themselves die hard fanboys following you.


Cheers!

It is kind of interesting when people talk about the "obvious" actions of others.

So... his house was "funded by his fanbase" - or in other words, his house was "paid for by the wages he made at work". That's fine, nothing wrong with that. We have a capitalist market in North America, and things are worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. That does not mean that you have to pay the same price, but be aware, you might not get your product if you don't like the price.

This also means, by extension, that the house you live in was paid entirely by your fanbase (unless you live in your parents basement, and then it is paid for by your parents fanbase). The fanbase in question there, is the same people on the market who are willing to pay you minimum wage (or perhaps more) to accomplish the tasks in the "REAL job" that you work. They stop being your fan once they fire your butt (for reference).

None of these arguments changes the fact that Thunt is operating an independent business and has his market in which to sell it. Which, by the way, is something every successful business has in common.

Quite frankly, it sounds more like you are jealous that Thunt perhaps has more than you? As such, you are looking for a way to belittle and demean the manner in which he has achieved success? But, whatever your personal situation, the reality is that he has achieved (in a business sense) and your attacking his method of business still has no validity.

[MakesNoSense]

It is neither rude nor disrespectful nor unprofessional. It is simply the business he runs and the product he offers. Again, you can choose to partake of his product or not.

His "product" has been advertised to come once a week, not to mention the numerous times he changed that and failed to deliver what he promised. It in fact IS disrespectful and it IS unprofessional. If you can't see that I suggest making an appointment with a doctor.

No.... if you feel he has not delivered, you have every right to go read another webcomic and forget this one. If you choose to stay, you do so with whatever he is able to produce. To be disrespectful, there would have to be intent. To be unprofessional, there would have to be a universal standard in his workplace/field which holds a near unanimous agreement.

[Dariune]

I feel the mods are being too leniant here.

I have nothing but respect for them and this forum, as a result of their work, has remained for some time a nice place to be.

But these people posting with blatant disregard for everyone else here don't care about warnings or anything.

But then, that is why I am not a mod.

Feeling sorry for them right now.

[rpgagmjay]

This is simple: We don't know.

The reason we are all butthurt about it is because we've been promised an explanation. Sure, Tarol doesn't OWE anyone an explanation for what's going on in his life... until he promised one. It's not the lack of progress on his comic. It's not even the silence. It's the expectation that he set.

For our part we can choose one of two paths. We can feel hurt because our fair and right expectations were not met. Hurt people hurt people. I understand the vitriol in this thread because I understand the disappointment. The other path we can walk is to reset our expectations. Tarol isn't the type of person to follow through on things. That's okay, he's got lots of other good qualities... like writing storyline and drawing comics.

I'll check back every couple of days to see if the comic has made any progress. Anything more than that... well, it's just not worth getting involved more with this comic or it's author. I guess that's just a consequence of lowered expectations.

That said, anyone want to pass the time by playing some D&D?

-Jay (the unofficial life coach)

[mustache_man]

So... his house was "funded by his fanbase" - or in other words, his house was "paid for by the wages he made at work". That's fine, nothing wrong with that.

From what I understand, claiming his fanbase paid for his house is an overstatement. The fans paid (or helped anyway) for a down payment (I don't know if its all paid for now). But those weren't wages either, they were donations. If you start to equate donations to wages, then you equate his fans to his bosses and make every single demand anyone that's donated anything, 100% valid.

[Chelsa121]

I'd just like to add, as it appears everyone is ignoring my brilliance again, it is neither disrespectful nor unprofessional to take time off work if you need it for whatever reason. If you're an independent contractor, it means that you're postponing or cancelling contracts to preserve the quality of your work. Sometimes this has to happen with very short notice. Tarol is not an independent contractor. He is an artist, which is a slightly different beast, but many of the same principles apply.

We don't pay for to support him if we don't want to. He provides his services to everyone for free. You can pay as much or as nothing as you want. It would be reasonable to fire an independent contractor if they can't provide the work you want them to, because you're paying for it. In the case of Tarol, as he is an artist, we're more patrons than customers. We can stop patronizing (in the technical definition of the term's sense) if we want, but it is important to remember that he doesn't owe us his work unless/until we commission something from him. And even if we did, and he did, it would still be reasonable for him to take time off from working in the event of personal or familial illness of any kind, injury, unforeseen disaster, grief, etc.... Just like we would.

Remember folks: Not all opinions are logically or rationally valid. Feelings, certainly, but opinions... Not so much. Some of them are quite pointless, matter of fact.

Further, while he has promised an explanation... We're not paying for that, either. Wait or don't, but have some common decency and realize that there have likely been times when all of us have broken promises for reasons both frivolous and compelling, and with Tarol... There is likely a very good reason for it.

[MakesNoSense]

Your choices are limited to this: Take part of the service offered or don't.

I have a hard time picturing you as a successful business owner if that's the way you view your relationship with your customers/clients. Obviously nobody can MAKE you do things in a way you're not comfortable with. But if you stretch the deadlines you set for yourself constantly (and this has been somewhat of an issue with this comic since it was black and white - although back then it was more of a hobby), I somehow don't think you'd do anywhere near as well as you could.

Also, the McDonald's situation makes nos sense. This would be more like complaining about McDonalds taking half an hour to get your order ready while claiming it it will be real quick.

I am the sales manager for a very successful business, and as such I not only know the owner of our business, but I know the owners of many other businesses (most of whom are my customers, some of whom are my suppliers). The "take the service offered or don't" is quite literal, that is how a business survives. If you try to change your business policy on a case by case basis to attempt to satisfy every person out there, you will fail miserably.

Because of the nature of Thunt's business, I see the deadlines in his webcomic as his personal goal, and not the product itself. His product requires no obligation of a deadline, he can update it today, tomorrow, next week, next month or never - at no point does it breach any contract with his readers. The update times are nothing but transparency for his personal goals, and if he does not meet them, it perhaps may mean that he has failed to meet his personal expectations, but it does not mean that he has failed you in his product. You borrowed his failure to meet his personal goals and turned it into a failure to you personally. Which is probably not the best way to view things in my estimation.

The McDonalds analogy is about asking for something which does not exist in reality, but exists in concept.

Thunt is not able to meet his timelines. Thunt is not able to communicate with us publicly right now. - These are well established points. Updating regularly, communicating in public right at this moment - these are hot dogs. They are things we understand, and perhaps even want. But they are not things Thunt is able to offer, at least not right now. Asking for something that you know is not on the menu and condemning the restaurant for not having them is (in my personal opinion) not only unproductive, but also a little silly.

If you prefer, you can think of these things like the McRib or a Shamrock shake (sometimes available, but not with consistency).

Thunt's comic updates when it does. His transparency in telling you when he wants it to update is neither an obligation or a promise to you personally. It is simply his expressed desire that he is sharing for YOUR benefit. Taking him to task for what he freely gives.... well....

[LAYF]

5. If you have a serious issue with another forum member, please contact one of the moderators in charge of the forum in question or a global moderator/admin if the issue isnÔÇÖt specific to one forum. If you have a problem with a particular moderator or admin you can reach out to another moderator (we have a lot of them) without fear of reprisal.

in regards to 5, if you feel all the "fanboys" are a problem, feel free to write a PM, but do not make an outrageous post like the above.

5. Did you seriously imply I should contact every single person I think is a fanboy and write them a PM? I don't have an issue with a specific person but rather a whole group of them.
6. The rules on these forums are way to harsh and seriously remind me of some form of repressive government
7. Holy shit, you can see a man's nipple, bicep and serratus anterior muscle. Too much for you?

5. did you read the rule? send a PM to a mod or admin, not the person in question. Yes, I fully expect you to do that if the problem is so big as you seem to think it is.
6. try go over to another forum... OOTS springs to mind and come back and tell me once again our rules are to harsh.
7. I would have given second official warning issued for continuous use of profanity after a warning have been issued. but since I posted the other warning just a few minutes ago...

[MakesNoSense]

So... his house was "funded by his fanbase" - or in other words, his house was "paid for by the wages he made at work". That's fine, nothing wrong with that.

From what I understand, claiming his fanbase paid for his house is an overstatement. The fans paid (or helped anyway) for a down payment (I don't know if its all paid for now). But those weren't wages either, they were donations. If you start to equate donations to wages, then you equate his fans to his bosses and make every single demand anyone that's donated anything, 100% valid.

You can call it a donation if you want. I see it as payment for a service given. Meaning, he put up a comic at his expense and said "if you like my work, you can support it." And some people took him up on that. That makes it income. The way you seem to view things, people cannot own a business, they all need to work for someone else. You can have income without being permanently accountable to your customers in perpetuity. His fans are not his bosses, they are his customers. The fact that they buy his product does not give them the right to expect that every single demand is 100% valid. No more than it makes it 100% valid for you to have bought at McDonalds before and to go back and demand Hot Dogs on their menu.

[Brightnotshiny]

I'm all for freedom of speech and am not a pretentious-asshole hater but...

People really think they can get away with multiple accounts in this day and age? >< Haaaaah

[Gryphonic]

Many forums don't care/can't spend the mod-time to keep checking for that. Since Overshot also is complaining that we have rules of civil discourse that do get enforced, I'm assuming that's his usual setting.*

*The Amazon reviews site has this problem. It's usually up to other members to notice and report when, say, an author is reviewing their own book under other names. And it's fairly common.

[SeeAMoose]

I feel the mods are being too leniant here.

I have nothing but respect for them and this forum, as a result of their work, has remained for some time a nice place to be.

But these people posting with blatant disregard for everyone else here don't care about warnings or anything.

But then, that is why I am not a mod.

Feeling sorry for them right now.

[mod="SeeAMoose"]We tend toward leniency but things have clearly gotten out of hand. Overshot I'm placing you on the moderation queue effective immediately, and you are well on your way to being the first person banned from our forum.

Everyone needs to take a step back and relax. I know everyone is frustrated, we get it and feel much the same. However, that frustration does NOT excuse the behavior I've seen in this thread. Forumites bickering about semantics, swearing, insulting each other, there have been a number of people who have gone over the line recently. Please take some of the advice others gave earlier about taking a step back and waiting to post.

To those of you who have continued to be supportive and have acted as the voices of reason, thank you! I can't tell you how much we appreciate it. Please continue to be patient.

Thanks!

Moose

Also the planinarmani account is gone.[/mod]

[mustache_man]

So... his house was "funded by his fanbase" - or in other words, his house was "paid for by the wages he made at work". That's fine, nothing wrong with that.

From what I understand, claiming his fanbase paid for his house is an overstatement. The fans paid (or helped anyway) for a down payment (I don't know if its all paid for now). But those weren't wages either, they were donations. If you start to equate donations to wages, then you equate his fans to his bosses and make every single demand anyone that's donated anything, 100% valid.

You can call it a donation if you want. I see it as payment for a service given. Meaning, he put up a comic at his expense and said "if you like my work, you can support it." And some people took him up on that. That makes it income. The way you seem to view things, people cannot own a business, they all need to work for someone else. You can have income without being permanently accountable to your customers in perpetuity. His fans are not his bosses, they are his customers. The fact that they buy his product does not give them the right to expect that every single demand is 100% valid. No more than it makes it 100% valid for you to have bought at McDonalds before and to go back and demand Hot Dogs on their menu.

You're still running with your hot dog thing and it still makes no sense whatsoever.
If I go to McDonald's, order a BigMac and they say it'll be ready in 2-3 minutes and it's been half an hour and I'm still waiting, I'm damn well going to complain. So will a lot of people. And those complaint's will be 100% valid. Nobody is asking for anything that's not on the menu. The only thing "on the menu" here is a webcomic, not hamburguers, not hot dogs. The only thing "he owes" his fans is a webcomic, and only as long as he wants to make a living out of it (if he decides he doesn't, too bad).

I never wanted an explanation for this hiatus. I honestly thought the first communication from his wife, saying they were going through personal issues was more than enough. The only problem I have with this whole thing, is the same problem I've always had: The deadlines that are almost always blown (and these are self-imposed deadlines to boot). You may think it's silly if you want, but I tend to judge these things by my own standards and whenever I set myself a deadline, not only I try to keep it, but I also set one that I'm reasonably sure I actually can keep.

Btw, keeping your deadlines is not a policy that applies specifically to some sort of businesses. It's something that applies to all kinds of business. Someone already said (not sure if in this thread) a webcomic business like his, is a whole different beast, with Thunt being an artist instead of a more regular contractor, but for more conventional businesses, not keeping your deadlines constantly paints you as unreliable and that kills a business as quick as anything, but I'm sure you already know that.

[SeeAMoose]

On a semi related note, we will be putting up a thread in the near future to discuss the forum rules and moderation. As we've done in the past we want to get some feedback from the community on how we're doing and the rules we adhere to as a community. I've been meaning to post it for about the past 2 weeks but hadn't found the time. Once this whole situation is resolved we'll put the thread up. Thanks again for being patient everyone, let's try to keep things civil

[PaintsTurtles]

Can we agree, as a starting point in building some common ground, that people have the right to their own feelings about what is clearly a difficult issue, regardless of whether you personally agree with them?

Can I, perhaps, add a caveat. If everyone could please think, at length, what the impact of those opinions and/or how they are phrased, might be on those that might read them. This goes for everyone on any side of any issue. Perhaps write your post, and then wait 15 minutes before putting it up. Go do something else in another tab for a bit. Then come back and read it again before posting. I am not here to advocate that anyone is not entitled to their feelings here, but I think a bit more mindfulness will go a long way to diffusing these arguments before they begin, and things can calm down again.

I am going to try to do this myself.

Very good point as well, thank you for the addition. This is really good advice and I hope people take it into consideration.

[Dariune]

I feel the mods are being too leniant here.

I have nothing but respect for them and this forum, as a result of their work, has remained for some time a nice place to be.

But these people posting with blatant disregard for everyone else here don't care about warnings or anything.

But then, that is why I am not a mod.

Feeling sorry for them right now.

We tend toward leniency but things have clearly gotten out of hand. Overshot I'm placing you on the moderation queue effective immediately, and you are well on your way to being the first person banned from our forum.

Everyone needs to take a step back and relax. I know everyone is frustrated, we get it and feel much the same. However, that frustration does NOT excuse the behavior I've seen in this thread. Forumites bickering about semantics, swearing, insulting each other, there have been a number of people who have gone over the line recently. Please take some of the advice others gave earlier about taking a step back and waiting to post.

To those of you who have continued to be supportive and have acted as the voices of reason, thank you! I can't tell you how much we appreciate it. Please continue to be patient.

Thanks!

Moose

Also the planinarmani account is gone.

Had to read that twice. Thought I was on the chopping block for a minute.

Well, lets hope people can chill out a bit now.

[Chelsa121]

You're still running with your hot dog thing and it still makes no sense whatsoever.
If I go to McDonald's, order a BigMac and they say it'll be ready in 2-3 minutes and it's been half an hour and I'm still waiting, I'm damn well going to complain. So will a lot of people. And those complaint's will be 100% valid. Nobody is asking for anything that's not on the menu. The only thing "on the menu" here is a webcomic, not hamburguers, not hot dogs. The only thing "he owes" his fans is a webcomic, and only as long as he wants to make a living out of it (if he decides he doesn't, too bad).

I never wanted an explanation for this hiatus. I honestly thought the first communication from his wife, saying they were going through personal issues was more than enough. The only problem I have with this whole thing, is the same problem I've always had: The deadlines that are almost always blown (and these are self-imposed deadlines to boot). You may think it's silly if you want, but I tend to judge these things by my own standards and whenever I set myself a deadline, not only I try to keep it, but I also set one that I'm reasonably sure I actually can keep.

Btw, keeping your deadlines is not a policy that applies specifically to some sort of businesses. It's something that applies to all kinds of business. Someone already said (not sure if in this thread) a webcomic business like his, is a whole different beast, with Thunt being an artist instead of a more regular contractor, but for more conventional businesses, not keeping your deadlines constantly paints you as unreliable and that kills a business as quick as anything, but I'm sure you already know that.

As I understand business, there is really only justification for complaint if you haven't gotten what you paid for. If you're at McDonald's, you ask for a refund and leave if they don't provide the service you're looking for, but if they're giving out free ice cream, and they run out, you have no legal or logical basis for complaint.

Goblins is free. You can donate, but that is not the same thing as paying for a service. In fact, that's more like paying for services already rendered because you feel like it, so you already got your product. Complaining about missed deadlines, is, was, and always will be moot unless you are offering Tarol a cheque for every completed comic he posts on a contractual schedule and he has agreed to accept your money to provide this service, which has not, in fact, ever happened insofar as I am aware.

In other news, when I donated to his house fund, I received my comic panel in a reasonably timely fashion, and it is now hanging on my wall as I type this. That was offered as goods (incentive, to be perfectly accurate) in exchange for money. So, before you get up in arms about not getting what you paid for, be sure that you know exactly what it is that you are paying for. And if you haven't paid... Well... Why are we having this discussion in the first place?

Apologies in advance if I have attributed the quote to the wrong person by accident. I am apparently only allowed to embed three quotes, so I pared it down to the one, but it's been a very long time since I've been on any forums and I kind of forget who said which or how the HTML works, so yeah. I'll fix it if I'm wrong and you tell me.

Edit: Fixed quote attribution.

[CooksACarrot]

Ok, everybody has a movie that they will sit down and watch whenever it gets rebroadcast on TV, no matter how many times you have seen it or where it is in the movie when you turn it on. What is yours?

For me, it is A Knight's Tale, the anachronistic Heath Ledger jousting movie. It has great performances and real, human moments while managing to be really funny, uplifting and in no way taking itself seriously. I must have seen it a few dozen times, and would gladly watch it again.

[nikohl]

I really quite liked A Knight's Tale, although Shannyn Sossammon irritates me a bit too much. It's a nice enjoyable rewatch, I agree. For me, though, the rewatcher I'll never turn off is Happy Gilmore. Waterboy in close second.

I used to have to watch the South Park movie to be able to fall asleep. I still know every word. I think that's why I had to have it on to sleep; I needed noise, but it had to be noise that I didn't need to think about, otherwise it would've kept me awake.