April 26th 2013 - Its Better To.

[LAYF]

Well.. have anyone considered that some snakes can lose their tail and block off the blood vessels... that is done just below the cloacae, if Kin's anatomy places her cloacae where human genitals would usually be, then she should be able to survive it.. the blood loss would not be more blood than what the tail needs, offcause, snakes dont regrow the tail like lizards, but as long as its only the tail, they should be fine the rest of her body should be fine... that is IF all the other things fit...

[CelineSSauve]

Does it matter how much exploded? A huge amount of her internal organs are exposed, and I forsee massive haemorrhaging that only the Healing Potion -maybe- can stop.

I know but I'm just hoping for her to be alive allthough the realistic side of me says that dissapointment will be experienced in the next couple of updates. The thing is we just don't know her specific anatomy (or at least I don't) and since her tail is pretty damn long I would have thought that the explosion would have been a lot bigger if her entire tail got exploded.

Well, you can see the explosion move from PsiMax's neck and along her tail, though I will agree with Glemp if the point is that even a fraction of her tail lost would likely be fatal.

[Master TMO]

What it all comes down to is that this is still a HP-based combat system. So it really depends on how much damage he just inflicted on her. We've seen some wounds that would have been pretty horrific in real life brushed off because they didn't do enough damage to take the person below 0. GS getting impaled on a pipe, for instance. It was a 'nice crit', but the fact that he had a sharpened rusty, filth-encrusted pipe sticking through his lung wasn't much of a problem, other than it kept him immobilized. Granted, he's much higher level than Kin is, so her HP stash is much lower.

[Morrack]

I don't think people should hope for Kin to survive this.
First thing, this is Thunt we're talking about, he kills off his characters if he feels like it. Seen what happened with K'seliss, Chief and Klik, we can conclude that no one is actually safe.
Secondly, MinMax has 'seen' her, which means Kin is story-wise no longer really 'needed'. They will confess their love for each other, after that point anything can happen. Seeing Kin's current state, I'm not very hopeful.
Third, her death would mean more character development for MinMax. How will he deal with this? Will he blame Forgath? Himself? Will this be the reason he ultimately joins up with the goblins (as I feel that's what's going to happen)?

Kin's death is tragic, yeah, I'd rather see her live too. But storywise, this seems like the 'perfect' moment for her to die.
I seriously doubt a 'Kin and Minmax live happily ever after' ending anyway.

Also, for people voting for a maze reset... wouldn't it make the current story kinda pointless? As it never happened anyway.

Just my thoughts on this .

[ForgetsOldName]

What it all comes down to is that this is still a HP-based combat system. So it really depends on how much damage he just inflicted on her. We've seen some wounds that would have been pretty horrific in real life brushed off because they didn't do enough damage to take the person below 0. GS getting impaled on a pipe, for instance. It was a 'nice crit', but the fact that he had a sharpened rusty, filth-encrusted pipe sticking through his lung wasn't much of a problem, other than it kept him immobilized. Granted, he's much higher level than Kin is, so her HP stash is much lower.

From the info we have, I would not say Kin's HP is much lower than GS's. It may be slightly lower, or about the same, but it is probably higher.

GS was a ranger. We don't know his level, but it was much higher than two. I don't really see Minmax and Forgath defeating a level ten character, even with their various advantages, but let's say he was level ten. Ten d8 is 45 hp. Level five is probably more likely, and that would make him 23 hp. Level eight is 36 hp.

Kin has no levels. She's a Yuan-ti. There are tons of kinds of Yuan-ti, and we don't really have any good info on Kin, but there's a template out there for a halfblood with 38 hp. Kin seems fairly young and fragile by yuan-ti standards though. I might knock off a quarter of the template hp and set her at 29 hp.

This is one of many reasons I have never been fond of HP based systems. In any logical world, both of them would either get immediate heroic medical help, or die.

[Liesmith]

Shew was repeatedly, and deeply, stabbed by oblivious while fighting another Kin, and those injuries only seemed to annoy her.

[Glemp]

She was repeatedly, and deeply, stabbed by oblivious while fighting another Kin, and those injuries only seemed to annoy her.

I think they did hurt her, but she had other things to deal with, and MM only did a sort of test-stab to see if it was the right one. She wasn't just 'annoyed' either - she looked very much in pain both times.
Besides, 'can ignore stab wound' =/= 'can survive limb explosion'

[Master TMO]

What it all comes down to is that this is still a HP-based combat system. So it really depends on how much damage he just inflicted on her. We've seen some wounds that would have been pretty horrific in real life brushed off because they didn't do enough damage to take the person below 0. GS getting impaled on a pipe, for instance. It was a 'nice crit', but the fact that he had a sharpened rusty, filth-encrusted pipe sticking through his lung wasn't much of a problem, other than it kept him immobilized. Granted, he's much higher level than Kin is, so her HP stash is much lower.

From the info we have, I would not say Kin's HP is much lower than GS's. It may be slightly lower, or about the same, but it is probably higher.

GS was a ranger. We don't know his level, but it was much higher than two. I don't really see Minmax and Forgath defeating a level ten character, even with their various advantages, but let's say he was level ten. Ten d8 is 45 hp. Level five is probably more likely, and that would make him 23 hp. Level eight is 36 hp.

Kin has no levels. She's a Yuan-ti. There are tons of kinds of Yuan-ti, and we don't really have any good info on Kin, but there's a template out there for a halfblood with 38 hp. Kin seems fairly young and fragile by yuan-ti standards though. I might knock off a quarter of the template hp and set her at 29 hp.

This is one of many reasons I have never been fond of HP based systems. In any logical world, both of them would either get immediate heroic medical help, or die.

I had it in my head somehow that GoblinSlayer was 7th level. I have no idea if this comes from a valid source, was actually a different character, or it spawned from the mists of my imagination. And we don't know how much his half-tree template may have helped him with a Con bonus or extra HP.

And yeah, the HP system is hardly perfect, but it's a relatively good simplification over the huge amounts of details involved in location-based damage, at least of the games I've played that tried to use it.

[Rooks]

What it all comes down to is that this is still a HP-based combat system. So it really depends on how much damage he just inflicted on her. We've seen some wounds that would have been pretty horrific in real life brushed off because they didn't do enough damage to take the person below 0. GS getting impaled on a pipe, for instance. It was a 'nice crit', but the fact that he had a sharpened rusty, filth-encrusted pipe sticking through his lung wasn't much of a problem, other than it kept him immobilized. Granted, he's much higher level than Kin is, so her HP stash is much lower.

From the info we have, I would not say Kin's HP is much lower than GS's. It may be slightly lower, or about the same, but it is probably higher.

GS was a ranger. We don't know his level, but it was much higher than two. I don't really see Minmax and Forgath defeating a level ten character, even with their various advantages, but let's say he was level ten. Ten d8 is 45 hp. Level five is probably more likely, and that would make him 23 hp. Level eight is 36 hp.

Kin has no levels. She's a Yuan-ti. There are tons of kinds of Yuan-ti, and we don't really have any good info on Kin, but there's a template out there for a halfblood with 38 hp. Kin seems fairly young and fragile by yuan-ti standards though. I might knock off a quarter of the template hp and set her at 29 hp.

This is one of many reasons I have never been fond of HP based systems. In any logical world, both of them would either get immediate heroic medical help, or die.

I had it in my head somehow that GoblinSlayer was 7th level. I have no idea if this comes from a valid source, was actually a different character, or it spawned from the mists of my imagination. And we don't know how much his half-tree template may have helped him with a Con bonus or extra HP.

And yeah, the HP system is hardly perfect, but it's a relatively good simplification over the huge amounts of details involved in location-based damage, at least of the games I've played that tried to use it.

Yeah. That and it's so hard to go from an HP system to a visual understanding of what an HP system looks like. I think that's what DnD combat is the way it is. My understanding was always that visually things like "cleaving off a head" or "exploding half a persons body" were critical hits that dropped people well below -10.

DnD (at least in the games I played) doesn't have a way to "knock a combatant back to get stuck onto a jagged pole". I don't think we had rules for anything like that anyway. Again, if the DM was feeling creative, a critical hit that just crushed a combatant's HP might get described that way, but all that said, I think Thunt has shown that Herbert doesn't DM that way. Something can be described extremely gruesome and graphic, but not really fall into that the category of -10. Cool for us (because it makes for a better comic), but it would be hard to do in an actual DnD game.

[BuildsLegos]

I had it in my head somehow that GoblinSlayer was 7th level. I have no idea if this comes from a valid source, was actually a different character, or it spawned from the mists of my imagination. And we don't know how much his half-tree template may have helped him with a Con bonus or extra HP.

I, too, got it in my head that the wood & stone pair were level 7, so I went looking for all references to their levels that I could remember (Talking Wall, glowing sword, dungeon history) and found that they're all vague. My guess is somebody on the Snotling forums estimated Level 7 from all the stuff we saw them do.

[Dashy]

On GS's level.

THAC0 was from 2nd ed, hence his name.

Therefore, GS, given he's been adventuring since sometime before he captured THAC0, could and most probably would be 2nd ed initially.

when you hit 9th level in 2nd ed, you get a stronghold with NPC soldiers, some armed with magical weapons.

yes? no?

[willpell]

Granted, he's much higher level than Kin is, so her HP stash is much lower.

D&D RAW nitpick: To be half-human and half-snake, Kin would have to be a yuan-ti halflbood, who has 7d8 hit dice (and a +5 level adjustment, making her massively overleveled to be in the same party as level 3 Minmax and Forgath).

[Drevvy]

On GS's level.

when you hit 9th level in 2nd ed, you get a stronghold with NPC soldiers, some armed with magical weapons.

yes? no?

In 2nd Ed. Rangers attract 2d6 followers at 10th level, they might be normal humans, but are often animals or even strange denizens of the land.
They may set up a stronghold, but don't get the same followers as a Fighter.

[RedwoodElf]

Granted, he's much higher level than Kin is, so her HP stash is much lower.

D&D RAW nitpick: To be half-human and half-snake, Kin would have to be a yuan-ti halflbood, who has 7d8 hit dice (and a +5 level adjustment, making her massively overleveled to be in the same party as level 3 Minmax and Forgath).

Except for the collar that nullifies most of her abilities.

[ForgetsOldName]

I had it in my head somehow that GoblinSlayer was 7th level. I have no idea if this comes from a valid source, was actually a different character, or it spawned from the mists of my imagination. And we don't know how much his half-tree template may have helped him with a Con bonus or extra HP.

I, too, got it in my head that the wood & stone pair were level 7, so I went looking for all references to their levels that I could remember (Talking Wall, glowing sword, dungeon history) and found that they're all vague. My guess is somebody on the Snotling forums estimated Level 7 from all the stuff we saw them do.

We've been through so many forums...

Racking my brains about this, I seem to recall him casting a spell that might fix his level. Does he cast Magic Fang somewhere? That would make him a minimum of level six.

I really should go to bed, but I found the comic. He's at least level six.

http://www.goblinscomic.com/04292009/

[willpell]

Except for the collar that nullifies most of her abilities.

That certainly could be taken as reducing her effective ECL (not per RAW, but it'd be a reasonable ruling by some DM...though Herbert more likely just doesn't care about these details). But it doesn't change my point, which was just that she has a goodly lot of HP - probably more than Forgath and Minmax put together, and certainly an amount competitive with Dellyn, if not higher.

[Apollad]

Longtime lurker here. Maybe someone has already adressed this before, but I see that you are talking about the keys' destruction. I think there is another key to open the treassure room, and maybe they still have it. http://www.goblinscomic.com/01272012/ Isn't this key just exactly as the "key that winks"?

That's been brought up a lot here. Personally, I don't believe it - there is no reason for the Maze' designer to put a spare key in an area that only one group goes past before they know that they need it and in a place that makes them forget every time they realise that they need it. Plus, we have that shadow under the door, which probably is the key - the winking key is there to trigger the tower moving up, or to trick groups into sealing themselves off.

Thank you for the reply, sorry for bringing this up again. So hard to keep up with you guys!

Don't be - I've had tonnes of theories shot down. The point is that you had an idea, and brought it up.

It is identical. Knowing Thunt, there's a reason he'd draw an identical key. It's not like he's doing 3D rendering and just accidentally re-using an archived object.

The keys aren't identical. They are very similar, I'll give you that, but there are plenty of differences. Some of it may be perspective, but the teeth (the part that goes in the door, whatever it's called) are very different. If the differences were only in the handle, then I would say that it is probably important, but the part that matters, the part that goes in the door, is different. If the key that winks was kablooied by Psimax, then the other key won't help.

Another long time Lurker, only just made an account (or Remade an account since the last server crash). The Keys are identical, It's just Artistic improvement that makes them not seem that way, every layered gold ring around it is positioned in the exact same spot, the eye moves, and the Teeth are the same, panel 7 and 8 here: http://www.goblinscomic.com/03092013/ Show the best that there is the little ridge before the very back of the key, as you can see here: http://www.goblinscomic.com/01272012/ The Keys simply have to many similarities for it to not have some kind of significant impact.

Personally, i feel that there is going to be a reset, Psimax will win somehow, but the Oblivion holes won't be removed, likely damaging the first rooms mechanisms, and also removing our FMK's Counter. I think this because Minmax won't have enough time for Forgath to jump down the roof hole caused by the Oblivion Holes and backtrack to get the key (Unless MM is able to get up to the win room), and for him to get back if he even realized the key similarities. (Wouldn't he need to go through the tower room in that case, he's not tall enough to get to the roof by himself.)

Also, all the way back with the GAP, the looks on their faces indicates some kind of fear, which would probably indicate Minmax being Alive and conscious.

If the key is not hidden in the shadow of the door (Which i personally feel is a darker shadow cast by the lock on the door) There is currently almost no way for FMK to win this round, Forgath and MM can't get back up to the victory room without each other, or kin (Having used Kin's Tail the first time, and unless they boost and pull each other up, they won't get back there.) Then there's also the numerous Zombies that are likely in the way there, or the Kin Trio if any of them are still alive.

Of course, The keys could be a false hope to try dupe people into thinking there's more to whats going to happen and Kin is going to be a cripple at best now

[YardMeat]

2. The prophecy: "When the serpent becomes your prey..." Minmax will now be hunting for Kin. Trying to find her and a way to get to her. Is that enough to count as "prey"? Probably not. But the "love will fuel hate" seems clear enough to me right now. His love for Kin will fuel his hatred for Psimax.

I think the wall implied that the prophecy would not come true unless/until they met the GAP again

Minmax: I'm looking for a douchebag goblin called Complains of Names. He gave me this scar with a lucky critical hit and I want payback. Where is he?
. . .
Wall: Oh, yeah, no, you don't want to know that. If you ever find those goblins, it is going to end badly for both of you. When the serpent becomes your prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate . . .
Forgath: Hey, that's what the goblin hag said to me. She also said a dwarf would kill me.
. . .
Wall: Oh yeah, that's totally going to happen. And not a good death either. Lots of screaming.

http://www.goblinscomic.com/12082009/
http://www.goblinscomic.com/12152009/

So we know that the prophecy is going to be fulfilled outside the maze, and only after Minmax and Forgath encounter the GAP again. Which also means that Forgath is going to survive the maze and isn't going to be killed by any of his clones there. We don't know if the serpent from the prophecy is Kin or not, so her fate is still up in the air.

Edit: on second thought, I think that we can reasonably presume that the "love" from the prophecy is about the love between Kin and Minmax. I think we also have a pretty good indication that the "fwoom" that the GAP encounters while running away from Kore is Minmax and/or Forgath. If it is Minmax, then he used the jade teapot to find Complains, meaning that Kin is probably still alive, otherwise he would use it to try to find Kin even after death (like his alt does in the most recent post). /wishfulthinking

[Starfire]

I'm beginning to think the serpent is Names. He's got that big long serpent like tail now... and love will fuel hate = Minmax's love for Kin (who might be dead) fueled his hatred for monsters... and friends become enemies = either Forgath trying to stop Minmax, or Kin's friends (she might consider the GAP to be friends) become the FMK's enemies.

[YardMeat]

I kinda see Names's tail being more scorpion-like than serpentine. It looks segmented and has a stinger-like end. Still, he's the most obvious "prey" that Minmax has other than Psimax (who doesn't fit the serpent description at all). And now that you mention it, the wall goes straight from Minmax asking about Complains to "When the serpent becomes your prey." If Forgath and Minmax are the friends that become enemies, then maybe Forgath is using the teapot to enlist the GAP's help after MM does something crazy to try to bring Kin back?

[RedwoodElf]

I had it in my head somehow that GoblinSlayer was 7th level. I have no idea if this comes from a valid source, was actually a different character, or it spawned from the mists of my imagination. And we don't know how much his half-tree template may have helped him with a Con bonus or extra HP.

I, too, got it in my head that the wood & stone pair were level 7, so I went looking for all references to their levels that I could remember (Talking Wall, glowing sword, dungeon history) and found that they're all vague. My guess is somebody on the Snotling forums estimated Level 7 from all the stuff we saw them do.

We've been through so many forums...

Racking my brains about this, I seem to recall him casting a spell that might fix his level. Does he cast Magic Fang somewhere? That would make him a minimum of level six.

I really should go to bed, but I found the comic. He's at least level six.

http://www.goblinscomic.com/04292009/

So he's a Fey? must be part of the half-wood thing. And his sword counts as a "natural Weapon"?

Magic Fang Description:

Increases the Enhancement Bonus of the target's natural weapon by 1, plus 1 per five caster levels. An item can have only one temporary item enhancement at a time. Only works on Animals, Vermin, Magical Beasts, Dragons or Fey.

Stacks with a weapon's base enhancement bonus
Can be cast upon shape-shifted druids and other creatures with natural weapons.

[LAYF]

So he's a Fey? must be part of the half-wood thing. And his sword counts as a "natural Weapon"?

Magic Fang Description:

Increases the Enhancement Bonus of the target's natural weapon by 1, plus 1 per five caster levels. An item can have only one temporary item enhancement at a time. Only works on Animals, Vermin, Magical Beasts, Dragons or Fey.

Stacks with a weapon's base enhancement bonus
Can be cast upon shape-shifted druids and other creatures with natural weapons.

Nah... DnD 3.5 Ed dont have restriction on Magic fang... all it requieres is that its a natural weapon.. so no prove that GS is fay that way....

Magic Fang

Transmutation

Level:
Drd 1, Rgr 1, Scalykind 1

Components:
V, S, DF

Casting time:
1 standard action

Range:
Touch

Target:
Living creature touched

Duration:
1 min./level

Saving Throw:
Will negates (harmless)

Spell Resistance:
Yes (harmless)

Magic fang gives one natural weapon of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite, or other natural weapon. (The spell does not change an unarmed strikeÔÇÖs damage from nonlethal damage to lethal damage.)

Magic fang can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

[Orga the Strange]

So he's a Fey? must be part of the half-wood thing. And his sword counts as a "natural Weapon"?

Magic Fang Description:

Increases the Enhancement Bonus of the target's natural weapon by 1, plus 1 per five caster levels. An item can have only one temporary item enhancement at a time. Only works on Animals, Vermin, Magical Beasts, Dragons or Fey.

Stacks with a weapon's base enhancement bonus
Can be cast upon shape-shifted druids and other creatures with natural weapons.

Nah... DnD 3.5 Ed dont have restriction on Magic fang... all it requieres is that its a natural weapon.. so no prove that GS is fay that way....

Magic Fang

Transmutation

Level:
Drd 1, Rgr 1, Scalykind 1

Components:
V, S, DF

Casting time:
1 standard action

Range:
Touch

Target:
Living creature touched

Duration:
1 min./level

Saving Throw:
Will negates (harmless)

Spell Resistance:
Yes (harmless)

Magic fang gives one natural weapon of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite, or other natural weapon. (The spell does not change an unarmed strikeÔÇÖs damage from nonlethal damage to lethal damage.)

Magic fang can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

True, but this is 3.0 with a little bit a of 3.5 thrown in for good measure. That might not necessarily be some of the 3.5 that got thrown in..

[Liesmith]

I'm just holding out hope that there will be a green FWOOOSH! in the room, and a Kin with a robotic tail and cybernetic eye appears, decapitating Psimax with a single steampunk shotgun blast.

"I'm you from the future. There's no time to explain."

[WastesTime]

Great work, Morikhan! Amazing! Sad, though...