March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Alvarin » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:53 am

Here is a thought I have - For no other reason than my personal logic, I would assume that as Forgath was the first to enter the maze, he would be the focal point of that maze iteration. This makes the realities without Forgath in them feel somewhat wrong for me. I'd assume that the realities without the dwarf would get their own set of alts (perhaps even with a Forgath in them, but not necesarilly).

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by stevedj » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:00 am

Ooh, that gives me an interesting thought...

Since the MoM is outside of space/time (or however that is phrased for the maze), then when Forgath entered first, is it possible he had to run through the maze a number of times solo?

Now it is possible that MM touched/passed-through the threshold before Forgath got his legs fully through - in which case no, I doubt a run would have started while someone was 'entering'. But if there was even the slimmest moment of time where Forgath was fully inside, but before MM touched the entrance - then in theory, that would have provided an eternity of Forgath in there by himself. Hmmm...

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by BuildsLegos » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:23 am

Poncheis wrote:
BuildsLegos wrote:What do you mean never met Kin? GS had her on the leash in the tavern. Do you even remember why Minimax fought him? Gobslay was bragging that he rapes her "Every night!" If he said that to Forgath, he'd get the same fate. In fact, I bet Tentigath and Octokin are good friends.
Compassion and goodness was totally erradicated from that world.

Then, obviously, Forgath wouldn't mind Goblinslayer raping Kin.
Oh yeah. Well, maybe GS was killed for not being evil enough. :P
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Neoriceisgood » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:58 am

This thread actually made me realise I'm more interested how Kin joined in the evil worlds than the information we've gotten about them.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Lee » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:08 pm

stevedj wrote:Ooh, that gives me an interesting thought...

Since the MoM is outside of space/time (or however that is phrased for the maze), then when Forgath entered first, is it possible he had to run through the maze a number of times solo?

Now it is possible that MM touched/passed-through the threshold before Forgath got his legs fully through - in which case no, I doubt a run would have started while someone was 'entering'. But if there was even the slimmest moment of time where Forgath was fully inside, but before MM touched the entrance - then in theory, that would have provided an eternity of Forgath in there by himself. Hmmm...
The maze runs until all alternates have won, so if the maze had started with just him+ alts it would keep going with just him +alts and he wouldn't be in the group with Kin and MinMax.

Edit: Though I suppose it could create more alternate universes where each member goes alone.
Last edited by Lee on Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by gamecreator » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:27 pm

Actually he would've been in their group. But by that time he would've won already.

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by willpell » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:32 pm

Poncheis wrote:Compassion and goodness was totally erradicated from that world.

then, obviously, Forgath wouldn't mind Goblinslayer raping Kin.
He could be opposed to it for reasons entirely distinct from goodness. Maybe dwarves are prudish about sex in that reality (as they are in most), and rather than being opposed on moral grounds, he considered it a contemptible sign of weakness that he couldn't restrain his lust, or that he was a race-traitor for mating with a monster. Then again, maybe he just wanted Kin for himself, and thought rape was beneath his dignity, so he killed her actual rapist and was determined to win her consent the "old-fashioned" way, believing that to be best and taking pride in his self-restraint. Lots of possible explanations. Just because everyone's evil (let alone neutral, which might still be an option) doesn't mean everyone will rape.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Lee » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:56 pm

gamecreator wrote:Actually he would've been in their group. But by that time he would've won already.
True, but you remember winning, and if he had gone through the maze before going through with the group then this conversation: http://www.goblinscomic.com/02152011/ would have been very different.

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Starfire » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:33 pm

Thanks for posting the alt reality page again! I was looking and not finding it! I'm also excited to see the GoblinSlayer like Kin (the half wood-like Kin) I remember from one chat session with Thunt that he wouldn't talk about this one much; it was too important. Now that we see her again, I can't wait to get that backstory!! I hope they keep appearing :)

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by willpell » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:53 pm

Starfire wrote:Thanks for posting the alt reality page again! I was looking and not finding it! I'm also excited to see the GoblinSlayer like Kin (the half wood-like Kin) I remember from one chat session with Thunt that he wouldn't talk about this one much; it was too important. Now that we see her again, I can't wait to get that backstory!! I hope they keep appearing :)
I'm hoping we'll finally hear the explanation for why Goblinslayer was half-wood, which Chief wouldn't let Kin tell us. (Thunt is such a tease.)
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Rorrik » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:51 pm

Lee wrote:
Dusk9 wrote:
CheeseToastofDeath wrote:This discussion about Goblinslayer and the Maze of Many mirrors something I was wondering earlier. Goblinslayer was extremely close to joining Forgath and Minmax in 'our' reality. And the Maze of Many seems to allow a certain degree of party variation, like how that one reality had One-Eye instead of Forgath. And yet, none of the realities we've seen look like Goblinslayer's part of them. The closest we've seen is that Kin who shares some of Dellyn's characteristics. Either having Goblinslayer in the party puts it too far outside the Maze's parameters for what an acceptable variation is, or that encounter was doomed no matter what differed about that particular reality.
Or, they just never go to the Maze with Goblinslayer on their team. In any reality.
Think about it: if they had Goblinslayer on their team, they would have a way to track the GAP, and no reason to go to the Maze. Or even any knowledge of it's existence.
There is also the possibility that there just isn't a group with a Gobinslayer in this iteration of the maze because they've all gone through and won some of the previous almost 2 million attempts. Remember he was a pretty high level Ranger (in our reality) and his team would have had an advantage.
I want to reiterate this point, it got lost because it was the last on the previous page. It's a good idea, but if there are infinite realities, there would be infinite realities with GoblinSlayer in them, theoretically, and so you could never be completely through with them. However, you could say that the density of GoblinSlayer parties decreased rapidly over the first 2 million iterations and now the chance of not having one is fairly high.

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by gamecreator » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:07 pm

Lee wrote:
gamecreator wrote:Actually he would've been in their group. But by that time he would've won already.
True, but you remember winning, and if he had gone through the maze before going through with the group then this conversation: http://www.goblinscomic.com/02152011/ would have been very different.
That's why it will be unlikely for him to go through the Maze alone.

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by SccrD25 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:05 am

willpell wrote:
Starfire wrote:Thanks for posting the alt reality page again! I was looking and not finding it! I'm also excited to see the GoblinSlayer like Kin (the half wood-like Kin) I remember from one chat session with Thunt that he wouldn't talk about this one much; it was too important. Now that we see her again, I can't wait to get that backstory!! I hope they keep appearing :)
I'm hoping we'll finally hear the explanation for why Goblinslayer was half-wood, which Chief wouldn't let Kin tell us. (Thunt is such a tease.)
My guess is it has something to do with the last panel here http://www.goblinscomic.com/10062006/

I have a lot of theories about that mad wizard
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Fen » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:46 am

SccrD25 wrote:My guess is it has something to do with the last panel here http://www.goblinscomic.com/10062006/

I have a lot of theories about that mad wizard

I'm guessing she's referring to Saral Caine? This would imply that the mad wizard is responsible for changing both of them? Sorry if that point was discussed elsewhere, but this is news to me.

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by SamWiser » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:02 pm

To my knowledge, the mad wizard has not been discussed much, but I would like to know more about them.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Krulle » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:29 pm

Dusk9 wrote:I think it's more likely that most alt groups without a Kin would have no reason to go to the Maze in the first place. She's the entire driving force behind the excursion to the Maze, so in most universes where she isn't a member of the group, they would have no reason to go near it.
There are exceptions, obviously, but that's only a small number of cases.
Then there should be plenty of "groups" with just one single Kin.

Or are those in a different run of the MoM?

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by willpell » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:03 pm

Krulle wrote:Then there should be plenty of "groups" with just one single Kin.

Or are those in a different run of the MoM?
Since Kin was enslaved by Goblinslayer (perhaps not in every reality, but many/most of them), she couldn't go to the Maze unless she at least met Minmax and/or Forgath. And if she did go alone, she'd be less likely to survive; she's ECL 12, so taking a level of Rogue to improve her stealth and trap-avoiding skills isn't something she can easily do, and she doesn't have access to her SLAs, nor does she have much upper body strength to be much of a fighter (though obviously there are some exceptions, notably "Ruby" and Hulkin).

It is entirely possible that "Ruby" or "Onyx" of the Triplekin group didn't lose their M&F, but simply never had either. (We know Sapphire was with a group containing at least one of the two.) We'll have to hope this info comes out in an Altsplanation or something.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Midara » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:21 pm

CheeseToastofDeath wrote:This discussion about Goblinslayer and the Maze of Many mirrors something I was wondering earlier. Goblinslayer was extremely close to joining Forgath and Minmax in 'our' reality. And the Maze of Many seems to allow a certain degree of party variation, like how that one reality had One-Eye instead of Forgath. And yet, none of the realities we've seen look like Goblinslayer's part of them.
I'm willing to bet that in many of the alt realities he did join them. Perhaps Minmax got distracted by a shiny bottle behind the bar and thus never discussed Kin with GS.
...And then they went off to slay some goblins. No maze-of-many.

Kin is the quest-giver, and without her there's really no mission for the teapot. They would be perusing the GAP as originally planned, before GS got intimate with the window.
With all the many variations out there, its safe to assume that not all of them enter the maze-of-many. Perhaps its only the minority that do...

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Liesmith » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:52 pm

stevedj wrote:Ooh, that gives me an interesting thought...

Since the MoM is outside of space/time (or however that is phrased for the maze), then when Forgath entered first, is it possible he had to run through the maze a number of times solo?

Now it is possible that MM touched/passed-through the threshold before Forgath got his legs fully through - in which case no, I doubt a run would have started while someone was 'entering'. But if there was even the slimmest moment of time where Forgath was fully inside, but before MM touched the entrance - then in theory, that would have provided an eternity of Forgath in there by himself. Hmmm...
Remember that there was a bit of a delay between when they entered, and when the maze actually started. I think they have that much time to "Avengers Assemble!" before the maze "locks in" their party.

I think Minmax is actually Shooshee (due to some Maze/Oblivion weirdness), and he's telling everybody that they need to better themselves by being neither stupid nor lame. Minmax's involvement also explains the poor writing of the holy text.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by askstoomuch » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:29 am

now I'm wondering would there be universes , were the drows survived ?
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by willpell » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:00 am

askstoomuch wrote:now I'm wondering would there be universes , were the drows survived ?
In view of the copyright panic, it seems a bit unlikely (not to mention that those players don't seem to be very good at surviving).
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Zeus » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:57 am

The reason there are only 218 realities in the maze (including the already dead ones) will be due to the fact only a tiny percent of realities will have known about the Maze.

There is no doubt in certain realities where the drow survived, but in doing so they probably took out the goblins and moved on - never meeting kin. Those who with the drow who met kin may never of attacked goblin slayer, may of died by the goblin slayer or many other options.

Partys who never met kin may of accidentally stumbled onto the maze, (maybe thats why there is a lone forgath, without a kin telling minmax not to pee on the sword his penis did go boom!) Other partys will have had kin but due to some reason lost her (killed on the way there by others, minmax and forgath or even a reality where goblin slayer survived)

So the reason behind so little alts in the maze is due to either: Dying before getting there or totally different paths so the maze was never an option

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by Liesmith » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:23 am

Zeus wrote:The reason there are only 218 realities in the maze (including the already dead ones) will be due to the fact only a tiny percent of realities will have known about the Maze.

There is no doubt in certain realities where the drow survived, but in doing so they probably took out the goblins and moved on - never meeting kin. Those who with the drow who met kin may never of attacked goblin slayer, may of died by the goblin slayer or many other options.

Partys who never met kin may of accidentally stumbled onto the maze, (maybe thats why there is a lone forgath, without a kin telling minmax not to pee on the sword his penis did go boom!) Other partys will have had kin but due to some reason lost her (killed on the way there by others, minmax and forgath or even a reality where goblin slayer survived)

So the reason behind so little alts in the maze is due to either: Dying before getting there or totally different paths so the maze was never an option
I think the Maze is just built to have 218 alternates per "instance". If there's an infinite number of alternate realities, any percentage of that will also be infinite.
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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by brnforce » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:29 pm

SccrD25 wrote:
willpell wrote:
Starfire wrote:Thanks for posting the alt reality page again! I was looking and not finding it! I'm also excited to see the GoblinSlayer like Kin (the half wood-like Kin) I remember from one chat session with Thunt that he wouldn't talk about this one much; it was too important. Now that we see her again, I can't wait to get that backstory!! I hope they keep appearing :)
I'm hoping we'll finally hear the explanation for why Goblinslayer was half-wood, which Chief wouldn't let Kin tell us. (Thunt is such a tease.)
My guess is it has something to do with the last panel here http://www.goblinscomic.com/10062006/

I have a lot of theories about that mad wizard
I think that wizard will be a goblin.

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Re: March 19 2013: Altsplanation 2

Post by gamecreator » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:34 pm

I think that wizard is multispecies hydrid.

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