1st november 2022 - "Treasure and love"

[Generic]

Permalink:
https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-18-2022

I understand that MinMax is upset. I still did not get to experience any of it, so, I don't really know what to make of this.

[Krulle]

Nope, I would not want to experience that either.

Smart of Minmax to realise that and wanting to get rid of it all.

[Generic]

Did you just call him smart because he felt guilty? Pretty low bar for intelligence at this point, even for MinMax.

I find it interesting how MinMax caused Kin stress. Then he proceeded to cause HIMSELF stress despite Kin warning him. And now she is comforting him for the stress he caused himself, instead of, you know, the scene being about him apologizing for pain he caused someone else, namely her.

MinMax sure is a dick. A tormented dick right now, but lets be frank, he did this. He caused it. Well, whoever set up this hellscape of a dungeon corridor caused it, but this might be outside of the scope of the problem.

[Icalasari]

Minmax totally has PTSD from this

[Velgar]

"Oh, no. All this bad stuff that was happening in a world I created and probably had active control over."

And completely ignoring that he was also all aware about EVERYTHING going on. Not just the bad stuff. So in order for the bad stuff to outshine the good, the Maxoverse (sort of weird name since I doubt MinMax has any reference to anything -verse, the player might, but we're sort of gliding away from them) had to be an outright hell-hole.

Let's take a very rough comparison. You kick a ball. Break your toe. And you score a deciding goal. You're in pain, you'll be with luck limping for a month with that foot and have to be careful with it all the way. It sucks. And you probably won't care, because you won the game for your team, wooooo!!

'Cose while that granny and all the other things suck. You're also present to gazillions of first true love kisses, babies first steps, you're seeing every good achievement too, every kind gesture your people ever made.

So unless you have more moments where loved ones are tortured than how many are lovingly embraced after just the most perfect day, you're literally ending up with net positivity.

Not to mention if there was a society that actively weaponized love... Well, people would probably start thinking that not really falling in love and caring the "ultimate amount" is perhaps the better thing... It would still happen, but people would avoid it.

And if it doesn't happen so often that people would actively try to protect people they fall for by not getting associated with them...

You'd again be in a world where more good things happen and it's not that "you could still concentrate on the bad things". You're omni-present, omniscient. That's the whole thing. You don't "get to choose". You see it all.

Also literal total expanse of existence full of experience and somehow a person "still wouldn't get it"? You see every choice ever made and where they lead and still don't somehow understand any of it? And yes, a human mind would explode. But MinMax was literally made god. He had the faculties to process it. He would understand.

I find it interesting how MinMax caused Kin stress.

Got to say I agree on this one. MinMax made her legs that bothered her and caused her discomfort enough for her to want her tail back and made her appreciate it more (she felt the legs were icky, they didn't move the way she wanted and she didn't even care about MinMax getting an eyefull, she simply felt tail is far superior to the weird bony constructs that are the legs). And he made himself disappear, which was probably the most stressing part for her, although she was quite cool about that too, 'cose she's already kinda used to him doing the most stupid things...

How did he cause her stress?

[Generic]

[...]
And completely ignoring that he was also all aware about EVERYTHING going on. Not just the bad stuff. So in order for the bad stuff to outshine the good, the Maxoverse (sort of weird name since I doubt MinMax has any reference to anything -verse, the player might, but we're sort of gliding away from them) had to be an outright hell-hole.
[...]

Was there every any doubt about that? I mean, the world they are in is pretty terrifying. Setting a bumbling idiot in charge of... No, give a bumbling idiot the ability to make a hell hole to stroke his own ego is bound to turn out even worse.

Lets not forget, that in the moment in which all time existed, where he could reach back in time, he never once figured out to use the colours to turn himself back, contact Kin to ask for advice how to go back, or just use his godly powers to become mortal again. Instead he decided to remain, and created a universe to cure the super pain and suckiness he experienced.

[...]

How did he cause her stress?

He morphed her body into something alien? I'll not argue you on this one, but I would sure be bothered if my lower body became half a snake.

[...] which was probably the most stressing part for her, although she was quite cool about that too, 'cose she's already kinda used to him doing the most stupid things...
[...]

My verdict about their relationship still stands. Kin should leave as soon as possible.

[ASFreefall]

While this line of comics has been interesting, I'm really not seeing how its relevant. MinMax told us that they can't take anything from this chamber out into the rest of the dungeon, so either the Maxoverse stays in the room, or they shatter it.

At best, we've given MinMax some PTSD (as mentioned above) that maybe results in some character growth somewhere down the line; at worst, he'll shrug it off and he'll be back to his old self in a couple pages.

Either way, it feels like a lot of time being used on things which are - at best - tangential to the main story line(s).

[Generic]

While this line of comics has been interesting, I'm really not seeing how its relevant. MinMax told us that they can't take anything from this chamber out into the rest of the dungeon, so either the Maxoverse stays in the room, or they shatter it.

At best, we've given MinMax some PTSD (as mentioned above) that maybe results in some character growth somewhere down the line; at worst, he'll shrug it off and he'll be back to his old self in a couple pages.

Either way, it feels like a lot of time being used on things which are - at best - tangential to the main story line(s).

This. Very much this. MinMax might get PTSD from this, but I don't see the emotional impact. We did not really get to see any of the T to cause any S.

[Velgar]

Was there every any doubt about that? I mean, the world they are in is pretty terrifying. Setting a bumbling idiot in charge of... No, give a bumbling idiot the ability to make a hell hole to stroke his own ego is bound to turn out even worse.

Lets not forget, that in the moment in which all time existed, where he could reach back in time, he never once figured out to use the colours to turn himself back, contact Kin to ask for advice how to go back, or just use his godly powers to become mortal again. Instead he decided to remain, and created a universe to cure the super pain and suckiness he experienced.

I mean, if we see him as just idiot shithead who's out hust for himself and himself alone.

But personally I see him as someone who still strives to be good. He's just really bad at it.

Except that he has shown ability to learn from his mistakes, like actually accepting Kin as a person. Yes, we can say the power of boobah is strong in evil-bad man-creature, but again I'd say that's selling him short.

He also had great compassion towards Forgath (which prompted more unfortunate decision...), so he's not just there to stroke himself, no matter how much one might want to believe so.

I'm even willing to believe the universe creation was more akin to a kneejerk reaction (how he figured that's what he needed is again a cake and a half being eaten). Which was followed by good alignmented feeling of responsibility over the said critters.

But he would indeed try to make them content, even happy. Yes, in his own way, but like before, he had the power of learning from experience and he had simultaneous access to every experience ever gained by anyone in his universe. And still apparently falling net-negative.

Heck, the whole implication is that if he was in a reality where every choice is possible, the people in his realm could be as altruistic as possible, all the way to most evil dickheads ever, that there was regardless of any choice, always more slide towards negative than positive...

But all rambling aside. This is indeed, like ASFreefall put it, interesting idea, but will probably lead nowhere. He even himself said tgat he is already forgetting most of it...

[Generic]

Was there every any doubt about that? I mean, the world they are in is pretty terrifying. Setting a bumbling idiot in charge of... No, give a bumbling idiot the ability to make a hell hole to stroke his own ego is bound to turn out even worse.

Lets not forget, that in the moment in which all time existed, where he could reach back in time, he never once figured out to use the colours to turn himself back, contact Kin to ask for advice how to go back, or just use his godly powers to become mortal again. Instead he decided to remain, and created a universe to cure the super pain and suckiness he experienced.

I mean, if we see him as just idiot shithead who's out hust for himself and himself alone.

But personally I see him as someone who still strives to be good. He's just really bad at it.

Except that he has shown ability to learn from his mistakes, like actually accepting Kin as a person. Yes, we can say the power of boobah is strong in evil-bad man-creature, but again I'd say that's selling him short.

He also had great compassion towards Forgath (which prompted more unfortunate decision...), so he's not just there to stroke himself, no matter how much one might want to believe so.

I'm even willing to believe the universe creation was more akin to a kneejerk reaction (how he figured that's what he needed is again a cake and a half being eaten). Which was followed by good alignmented feeling of responsibility over the said critters.

But he would indeed try to make them content, even happy. Yes, in his own way, but like before, he had the power of learning from experience and he had simultaneous access to every experience ever gained by anyone in his universe. And still apparently falling net-negative.

Heck, the whole implication is that if he was in a reality where every choice is possible, the people in his realm could be as altruistic as possible, all the way to most evil dickheads ever, that there was regardless of any choice, always more slide towards negative than positive...

But all rambling aside. This is indeed, like ASFreefall put it, interesting idea, but will probably lead nowhere. He even himself said tgat he is already forgetting most of it...

My advice is usually to run away from jerks/ idiots who are likely to get you killed, and don't wait for their redemption arc to resolve.

Since she returned he has behaved like a dangerous spatz twice, and now she is comforting him. I feel bad for Kin who magically plot bonded to a non-adult.

I am more than OK with love stories turning into a dangerous trainwreck. I just hope MMs behaviour stop being portrayed as admirable.

[Velgar]

My advice is usually to run away from jerks/ idiots who are likely to get you killed, and don't wait for their redemption arc to resolve.

Since she returned he has behaved like a dangerous spatz twice, and now she is comforting him. I feel bad for Kin who magically plot bonded to a non-adult.

I am more than OK with love stories turning into a dangerous trainwreck. I just hope MMs behaviour stop being portrayed as admirable.

Honestly speaking, not bad advice. And can't really fault for it.

Personally have been working somewhat with lots of people who are for reason or another more or less jerks, not so smart and simply impaired with your average life.

And a lot of them can be difficult. Especially when you try to make them play nice with people who lack patience or just the common grave given to those who have less than themselves.

Sure, none of them have been outright dangerous to me, but I have driven one straight to hospital after they messed up their hand falling on it in rather uncontrolled fashion, and I've nearly fainted thanks to my hemophobia after another just decided to show what kind of mess they made after dropping a hobby knife on their foot...

They can be a hassle. And I live in a country that's highly safe to its residents and where active care is taken that most if not all who need some manner of help, do get it.

So I can quite a bit relate to someone who can still care for a person who's idiotic to the point of being dangerous. Got to remember too that beyond that one desperate and very badly thought action, MinMax has never actively tried to harm Kin (and even then he wasn't actually trying to harm her and accepted the consequences when they were dealt to him). Other times it has been the highly hostile world around them that's endangered or unconvinced Kin due to MinMax's stupidity (in the silence room's case he didn't even know what was going on the other side)...

But I do digress. Caring for idiots or jerks, malign or benign alike, is a hassle. It can be even dangerous at times, both to you and especially to them, and it takes a certain kind of person to put up with all the bullshit.

It's takes especially special type of person to take care of such special people when there is an actively hostile situation going on or the circumstances are simply difficult in on themselves.

And though some prefer to slump "inaction" as "hostile action" towards people you "could be" helping, but "don't want to"... I tell them screw you. Everyone is at the end of the day out there for themselves and everyone is free to choose how they lead their lives as long as they don't actively attempt to harm anyone (which indeed counts out the "being harmful by inaction").

If you're in danger on average, like people are in Goblin's universe all the the time, it's perfectly valid, understandable and acceptable to consider people like MinMax a liability that doesn't need be.

So yeah. Kin could really just ditch MinMax. And it would make things much easier for her.

But I don't think she should. They have a chance to have a good thing going. It does indeed ask more from Kin, 'cose she's the one who can more easily accommodate MinMax's idiocy. But I see MinMax having his heart in the right place and every effort his teeny brain can muster to imagine to better their lot, he will put his outmost action towards it. And yes, that means sometimes he's ramming a wall head first if no-one manages to catch him before it.

Excellent example was "Dick go boom" episode. I think Forgath and Kin both agreed that MinMax is worth the hassle, but Kin back then just way underestimated how much of a hassle he really is.

[Velgar]

Dear lord that was a lot of text... Please do skip if you feel like it. In grand scheme of things it was nothing THAT important. XD

Not regretting writing it. Meant every word.

[Hope_Caswell]

Not a huge fan of this update. Some interesting philosophy, and a little character development for Max, but mostly just a way to be emo in ways that aren't that different from what we already knew about the character. It's not terrible, I just feel like it's kind of padding, and I'd rather see the plot advance. As tired as I am of the "infinite knowledge cannot be contained by mortal minds" trope, I think it would have been a useful device for getting out of this little slump, instead of further wallowing in the emotional fallout of what previously read as a light, silly, one-off joke.

So unless you have more moments where loved ones are tortured than how many are lovingly embraced after just the most perfect day, you're literally ending up with net positivity.

In my personal opinion, a teeny tiny quantity of bad utterly eclipses and annihilates a huge amount of good. One drop of sewage in a barrel of clean water makes it a barrel of sewage. This is why companies invest in things like marketing and PR, which of course leads to issues, but the bottom line is that just a handful of people saying your company sucks will carry more weight than a large number singing its praises.

[kirsham]

I need to stop checking the forums on comics featuring MinMax. Invariably there are people who have this weird obsession with reading whatever he does or says in the worst conceivable way, pulling the overall discussion down in the dirt.

[Velgar]

In my personal opinion, a teeny tiny quantity of bad utterly eclipses and annihilates a huge amount of good. One drop of sewage in a barrel of clean water makes it a barrel of sewage. This is why companies invest in things like marketing and PR, which of course leads to issues, but the bottom line is that just a handful of people saying your company sucks will carry more weight than a large number singing its praises.

I personally blame the lack of actual conflicts. I mean, in the example of barrel of sewage... There are surprisingly many people who would consider that barrel worth its weight in gold for having so little contaminants.

We are just very war-like critters by nature. We have to compete in something, we have to champion some cause, we have to strive against something. And when your biggest concerns start being whether you can afford that double caramel latte when your friend asked you to have coffee with them next Saturday... You already have it pretty good. Even if you "can't really afford things you like", you "don't have too much free time anymore" and you just "feel so stressed all the time nowadays".

Heck, was annoyed that my electric costs tripled recently. Got a bit stressed how to handle that. I've been unemployed for a while now and have had to do odd jobs here and there and outright ask for money from people I know couple of times to make do. And then I see news about people who get handed these tiny ass near completely rusted stoves, 'cose otherwise they might just freeze to death this winter thanks to certain countries deciding they don't much care about borders.

Still didn't really make my situation any easier for me, despite helping me understand how good I have it that I can just sip tea in my relatively warm apartment and having to only worry about things that will happen to me after three months, giving me plenty of time to prepare for them. Instead of having to worry if I will be even alive tomorrow thanks to someone just bombing my place at random.

We really think about it. We can see starving children from Africa and pray for them. But it's really hard to actually get. You'd have to be there, try to take care of them, see them perish in your very arm for it to just strike you just by its own weight. You really need to have thirst for days to understand just how valuable a barrel of filthy water can be.

Which all sort of why I'm rather disappointed by MinMax in this one. He got that experience. He lived through untold lives of misery. He saw the worst that could happen. That makes a person appreciate even the little things one gets. And unless the place was an absolute unapologetic hell hole, he saw A LOT of little things. He saw great things. He saw many, probably equally good things. And none of that struck a cord with him? He remembers none of them? He remembers only the suffering? Really? And if the world he created, that he controlled was truly abysmal... What did he do? Just create and leave it there like that? No.

He would have done his darnest to make things better. He would have put in effort. He IS a good guy.

But 'cose he is an idiot, he does many, many stupid things. But he tries his best. He tries to help, make things better. He is a hero.

I need to stop checking the forums on comics featuring MinMax. Invariably there are people who have this weird obsession with reading whatever he does or says in the worst conceivable way, pulling the overall discussion down in the dirt.

So that's why at least I will champion MinMax's right for heroism and defend him, if not his actions (for they are many a time idiotic and poorly thought through), then his intentions at least. And if the road to hell is paved with good intentions, then at least I know I can count on MinMax to fight the Devil himself by my side while we both walk down to him to flip him the bird.

Christ, I just can't keep myself from writing these days... Would need to channel this energy to a fanfic I've owed my pal for a year or even two by now...

[Generic]

I need to stop checking the forums on comics featuring MinMax. Invariably there are people who have this weird obsession with reading whatever he does or says in the worst conceivable way, pulling the overall discussion down in the dirt.

It's alright. You can call me out directly if you want to, instead of this kind of round-about way.

Talking about wierd obsessions, most of your posts (as in, all of them) are about defending MinMax or whatever. And this is fine. I am more than ok talking about this with you. But I at least vary what I talk about. If we're going to throw words like "obsession" around.

[kirsham]

It's alright. You can call me out directly if you want to, instead of this kind of round-about way.

Talking about wierd obsessions, most of your posts (as in, all of them) are about defending MinMax or whatever. And this is fine. I am more than ok talking about this with you. But I at least vary what I talk about. If we're going to throw words like "obsession" around.

Don't flatter yourself, I skimmed a few of the comments, and I'm not going to waste my time going back to check if they were yours or not. Besides, it's not an isolated incident, it's a running theme on comics featuring MinMax.

Yes, all five (six, if you include this one) of my posts, what an obsession! It's almost as if I've used almost no time on this at all.

[Generic]

It's alright. You can call me out directly if you want to, instead of this kind of round-about way.

Talking about wierd obsessions, most of your posts (as in, all of them) are about defending MinMax or whatever. And this is fine. I am more than ok talking about this with you. But I at least vary what I talk about. If we're going to throw words like "obsession" around.

Don't flatter yourself, I skimmed a few of the comments, and I'm not going to waste my time going back to check if they were yours or not. Besides, it's not an isolated incident, it's a running theme on comics featuring MinMax.

Yes, all five (six, if you include this one) of my posts, what an obsession! It's almost as if I've used almost no time on this at all.

I'll save even more time for you then.
Smash this link to ignore my posts.

[Krulle]

I clicked it, and had to read the URL to know what I would be confirming.... Nice.

Anyway, Kin somehow recognised in her repetitive Maze of Many runs, that she truly sees Minmax.
And her emotional EQ is high enough that she decided to give "them" a go, despite all the issues, bigotry, and everything else Minmax does.

And thanks for the walls of text. I basically skimmed them only (don't have the time to read them in detail when only "passing by"), but love that I am not the only one caring enough about this comic to write a lot.

[Generic]

I clicked it, and had to read the URL to know what I would be confirming.... Nice.

(...)

I might be a sniveler, but I am no crook. Only legit links from me. Dunno if you'll see this, lol.

[Krulle]

Oh, I saw before that it remains on the board, I just didn't pay attention to the details beyond...
But the page that pops up just asks whether you wish to perform and thus confirm the decision.
It does not "remind" you what the decision you wanted to take was which originally took you to the page.
(But that's visible in the URL).

► Show Spoiler

the page only asks you to confirm, on the page itself I cannot see that I would be adding you to my "Foe" list

[Generic]

Oh, I saw before that it remains on the board, I just didn't pay attention to the details beyond...
But the page that pops up just asks whether you wish to perform and thus confirm the decision.
It does not "remind" you what the decision you wanted to take was which originally took you to the page.
(But that's visible in the URL).

► Show Spoiler

the page only asks you to confirm, on the page itself I cannot see that I would be adding you to my "Foe" list

Yeah. I noticed that as well. I am in QA and have a foundation in UX and that was not very pretty. In fact it stuck out like a sore thumb. Aaand we're officially off topic, so lets not stray further.

[Hope_Caswell]

I personally blame the lack of actual conflicts. I mean, in the example of barrel of sewage... There are surprisingly many people who would consider that barrel worth its weight in gold for having so little contaminants.

I'm with you so far. The first world does often forget how good we have it, and obsess over the little things we lack instead of noticing the gigantic horrors we're escaping.

We have to compete in something, we have to champion some cause, we have to strive against something.

shocked voice "But Velgar, didn't you know, competition is EVIL! It's just systemic oppression by the establishment which makes people think that the resources of the world are limited and that giving more to someone inevitably means someone else gets less! That's toxic masculinity speaking! Life is an infinity-sum game! You should always give everything away freely to anyone who asks, because the universe is love and what goes around will come around; we all do better when we all do better, so hand over your wallet, unless you're some kind of capitalist scum or something!"

Yeah I know, I'm exaggerating just a bit. But some people out there are so radical that this probably needs to be explicitly labeled as parody, or someone might think I actually MEANT all this nonsense.

Heck, was annoyed that my electric costs tripled recently. Got a bit stressed how to handle that.

The key word here is "stressed". Stress isn't caused by the fact that your electric bill went up; it's caused by the fact that you don't know how you're going to pay this suddenly higher bill. In past generations, life was inherently difficult, and we grew up understanding that we were all going to have a lot of toil and misery to go through just to get up to bare-minimum survival; we were properly adjusted to that reality and it didn't bother us at all. Stress is the result of not being confident in your ability to cope, and the fact that we have so much of it nowadays is due to the fact that our broken educational systems are no longer designed to help us learn how to succeed in life. Being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I think there's a deliberate effort on some "elites" out there to make sure that modern generations are raised to be helpless and dependent on the system, so that more power can be gained from exploiting them...but it might be the work of simple incompetence rather than deliberate malice.

Which all sort of why I'm rather disappointed by MinMax in this one. He got that experience. He lived through untold lives of misery. He saw the worst that could happen. That makes a person appreciate even the little things one gets. And unless the place was an absolute unapologetic hell hole, he saw A LOT of little things. He saw great things. He saw many, probably equally good things. And none of that struck a cord with him? He remembers none of them? He remembers only the suffering? Really? And if the world he created, that he controlled was truly abysmal... What did he do? Just create and leave it there like that? No.

Minmax is not smart enough to have a sense of perspective like that. He's a pretty ordinary type of person who reads three negative reviews on Yelp and goes "well this place clearly sucks" and doesn't try to go any deeper into the issue. He's also pretty soft-hearted when he's not being a meathead. If he sees a lot of suffering, his brain is going to shut down and he'll stop being aware of anything else.

Christ, I just can't keep myself from writing these days... Would need to channel this energy to a fanfic I've owed my pal for a year or even two by now...

Boy do I feel that energy.

[Velgar]

And thanks for the walls of text. I basically skimmed them only (don't have the time to read them in detail when only "passing by"), but love that I am not the only one caring enough about this comic to write a lot.

Got into learning sign-language so that they'd have to legit tie me up to make me shut up... Well, not really and didn't learn, but I'm ready and able to ramble when ever needed.

Yeah I know, I'm exaggerating just a bit. But some people out there are so radical that this probably needs to be explicitly labeled as parody, or someone might think I actually MEANT all this nonsense.

They take many forms indeed and all over the place. Best version was on twitter when I disagreed with someone and tried to remain polite, and thus I was trying to gaslight them, according to third party... Or how the lack of proof on something means that "the enemy" is just winning and need be fought against even harder... Granted even I felt a twinge of further affirmation when I learned someone had managed to decode a flat-earther by reminding them that if the world had actual edges, corporations would have monetized the hell out of them... People in the internet are just a riot... It just keeps spilling out of it all the time...

Being a bit of a conspiracy theorist, I think there's a deliberate effort on some "elites" out there to make sure that modern generations are raised to be helpless and dependent on the system, so that more power can be gained from exploiting them...but it might be the work of simple incompetence rather than deliberate malice.

Personally I blame incompetence that's been brought on by desire for comfort. It takes a helluwa lot to keep tabs on everyone's everything that ever could be related to your field. Especially when the numbers grow. Few rulers ever have truly run their world alone. Even gods have had their lessers and champions.

Which could be one of the reasons why Minmax failed, since he does not speak of any secondaries to his power. But for a mortal person to cope with the sheer complexity of simple numbers is a challenge, let alone managing every single individual person working down the latter. Hence why leaders keep being gobsmacked by things their lowly drones have understood for ages...

Minmax is not smart enough to have a sense of perspective like that. He's a pretty ordinary type of person who reads three negative reviews on Yelp and goes "well this place clearly sucks" and doesn't try to go any deeper into the issue. He's also pretty soft-hearted when he's not being a meathead. If he sees a lot of suffering, his brain is going to shut down and he'll stop being aware of anything else.

But see, while Minmax is stupid, even to a point of apparently not having delegated a squat... I don't think he was able to stop being aware of things. "I experience all of time, from its beginning, to its end". And on multiple levels to be able to know about them, which means he saw all of time in at least every level in which he made any changes to existence.

Of course we could take it as Minmax's hyperbole, but he was still working on the godly afterglow, so we can take some of the facts as true. And as he said, there was no "moment", it was all at the same "time". His consciousness was expanded in far greater ways than even Ellipsis probably got around thinking.

He quite literally ceased being "a pretty ordinary type of person" when he became a god. Buuuut... Somehow he still was just Minmax... It's very much an immovable object v an unstoppable force. It makes too little sense if something doesn't give.

---

And in general I'm just confused how with power enough to actually create a whole universe with everything in it, somehow Minmax was totally powerless to making any changes to it or smiting anyone for having done "wrong"...

[Hope_Caswell]

Seems like he had a couple of good ideas which immediately failed to turn out the way he wanted them to; a bit of Monkey's Paw energy in having things go that badly, and it's likely that any smiting he did would only have made matters worse.