2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

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2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Glemp » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:15 am

https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-7-2020 It's nice to see a reminder that the GAP have spent most of their lives (barring Thac0) in an isolated warcamp and don't know a lot about things we, the audience, take for granted. See: Evil Cheese

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by redfeather » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:49 am

Awesome thread title, Glemp!

It makes sense that nobody in the GAP would know what a watch or even a clock was. Not sure how they could mistake flat cylinders for eggs though.

The new character having little glowy eyes but being unable to see is an intriguingly peculiar detail. I assume that eventually "it" will become the vehicle by which the goblins learn that these objects are timekeeping devices.
Last edited by redfeather on Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Bapuvitttssf » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:11 am

In last panel, Kore's headpiece says "including the the grumpy one". That's one "the" too much, right?

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Glemp » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:12 am

Bapuvitttssf wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:11 am
In last panel, Kore's headpiece says "including the the grumpy one". That's one "the" too much, right?
Yes, someone Tweeted to Elli about it thankfully, so it may get fixed.

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Generic » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:36 am

Was the new page taken down? Saw it a flash, but now it's not there anymore.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Glemp » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:03 am

Generic wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:36 am
Was the new page taken down? Saw it a flash, but now it's not there anymore.
Huh, weird. Here's a image link: https://www.goblinscomic.com/comics/159 ... -Page7.jpg

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Velgar » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:27 am

Might be that the the comic is getting a hot fix. :D

But hopping to last pages comments, I wonder who'll be the first of our heroes to tap in and start a vine reaction thing. :D
Those things can catch on quick and seeing how they seem to be partly organic-like, might go viral pretty quick too.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Krulle » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:07 pm

page is up again. "the" in last oanel has been removed, and the new image may have caused the hickup
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by WearsHats » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:08 pm

Do mechanical clocks even exist in a D&D world? Water clocks, hourglasses, hour candles, and so on, sure, but off the top of my head the closest thing to a mechanical clock we've seen in the comic is the psionic gear machine. Pretty sure this is the first time we've seen a clock face.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Glemp » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:11 pm

Methinks Herbert was running out of ideas for puzzles with this one. We've already got "magic teapot", now we've got "mysterious artefacts that look exactly like clocks", maybe we'll get the Infinity Phone next, or the Emerald Lamp. Elli has after all said he's a bad GM.

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Generic » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:59 pm

Glemp wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:11 pm
Methinks Herbert was running out of ideas for puzzles with this one. We've already got "magic teapot", now we've got "mysterious artefacts that look exactly like clocks", maybe we'll get the Infinity Phone next, or the Emerald Lamp. Elli has after all said he's a bad GM.
What is bad with clocks and teapots in themselves? Herbert is a master of just slapping filler rooms one after another, sure. But a teapot is a decent enough artifact I think.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Krulle » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:24 am

WearsHats wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:08 pm
Do mechanical clocks even exist in a D&D world? Water clocks, hourglasses, hour candles, and so on, sure, but off the top of my head the closest thing to a mechanical clock we've seen in the comic is the psionic gear machine. Pretty sure this is the first time we've seen a clock face.
Yeah, but so what? This is a fantasy setting anyway.

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Generic » Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:15 am

We have automatic one handed crossbows, swords with foldable crossguards.. Don't no-ears have some fan like shield thing? Those mechanical things that just swarmed Kin. I think clocks are well within the tech/magic level of the setting.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Nina » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:33 am

Hi all,
I like the view at the Goblin party thru the forest of watch roots. Nice point of view.

Am I understanding correctly that the Kore-Skull-Soul is able to sense what Kore is doing?

Hugs, Nina.

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Generic » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:42 am

Nina wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:33 am
[...]
Am I understanding correctly that the Kore-Skull-Soul is able to sense what Kore is doing?

Hugs, Nina.
What made you come to that conclusion? I am not saying I think you're wrong. That just completely eluded me. Is it because of it mentioning Complains to piss him off? The Grumpy one would be Kore?
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by WearsHats » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:36 am

Krulle wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:24 am
Yeah, but so what? This is a fantasy setting anyway.
Right. Not saying they shouldn't exist as part of a dungeon puzzle. Who knows who created this thing or why or what knowledge they had? We've already seen a dungeon that spans multiple realities.

Rather, as perhaps I should have made clearer, I was responding to the first two posts in the thread, which assumed that the GAP wouldn't know what a clock was because goblins are often unfamiliar with human things. My point is that mechanical clocks seem to be broadly unknown in the realm, not just to goblins. And a clock face with hands only makes sense in the context of a mechanical clock with gears (or a digital simulation made after mechanical clocks and watches become the common standard).

The first recorded mechanical clock in our world was built in 1283 (earlier than I'd expected), but it just tolled the hour with a bell. The minute hand wasn't invented until 1577, after refinements allowed for that kind of precision. The pendulum, which greatly increases that precision, wasn't introduced for another century. The midieval period ended 1453, more than a century before the minute hand.

The repeating crossbow, on the other hand, was invented by 234 AD and possibly centuries earlier. (Regular crossbows date back to the 5th century BC, and there are possible references to repeating crossbows around 200 BC.)

Obviously, this is a D&D world, with magic and gnomish artificers and so on. It's not directly comparable. But the level of technology needed for a clock with a minute hand is well beyond what we've seen in, say, Brassmoon, which seems to be a fair-sized city for the region.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by DrinksTea » Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:34 am

Hmm. But we are only ASSUMING they are clocks, because they looks like an old school fob watch without the chain (I am so thinking "Alice in Wonderland pocket watch"). The ones we see here do lack numbers but do have the funny little knob, thus giving away the 12 of the clock position.

Thinking back... Young-And-Beautiful was able to create using her scrying powers Stuff-About-People-We-Don't-Know Papers... so perhaps an wizard using her/his artificer powers created a whole lot of eggs... which just happen to look like watches... which when touched hatch after a predesignated time... oh wait, that's not a very good trap. I got nothing else other than a temporal disruption grenade (a.k.a. pineapple bomb), but that is probably way too far outside the scope of this universe.

Maybe it's not a trap? The controllable statue in the other room wasn't a trap. Maybe each watch lets you view events in the dungeon at that time of day?!?

And they don't need to be mechanical clocks... they could be magical clocks (that would be easier to create in a fantasy world with developed magic and undeveloped technology)... because if I create a magical device to tell the time, why wouldn't it look like a clock?

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Velgar » Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:46 pm

Also there have been Modrons and then Primus...

So all sorts of clockworks ending up here are there isn't really far-fetched, but to recognize it for what it is and even further how it could work...

Now that's a whole another thing.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Generic » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:30 am

WearsHats wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:36 am
[...]

The repeating crossbow, on the other hand, was invented by 234 AD and possibly centuries earlier. (Regular crossbows date back to the 5th century BC, and there are possible references to repeating crossbows around 200 BC.)

[...]
When was the crossbow that fires a steady stream of bolts when used with only one hand invented?
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Krulle » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:47 am

DrinksTea wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:34 am
Hmm. But we are only ASSUMING they are clocks, because they looks like an old school fob watch without the chain (I am so thinking "Alice in Wonderland pocket watch"). The ones we see here do lack numbers but do have the funny little knob, thus giving away the 12 of the clock position.
My grandfather's clock had the button at approximate 14 o'clock, because when holding it in your right hand, it disturbs no fingers there.
That's simply not a reliable indicator....

DrinksTea wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:34 am
Maybe it's not a trap? The controllable statue in the other room wasn't a trap. Maybe each watch lets you view events in the dungeon at that time of day?!?
Since this dungeon already had time-plays (the room with the "alternates", which were just from across the future, and then they meet themselves from a few moments back ("The Lamest, Most Confusing Room"]), and Thaco's blindfold, I assume it's actually likely that the clocks handle different elements of time magic in this dungeon.
Like when and where doors open/close; how much the blindfolds of the statues can peek into the future; the time delay of the LOL pearl; ... Now to find out which one does what. Seeing the amount of clocks, you'll need to be very lucky, or have a lot of patience.

(btw, I like your username. Do you, by any chance, play warzone? There's someone with a very similar username.)
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by WearsHats » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:37 am

Generic wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:30 am
WearsHats wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:36 am
[...]

The repeating crossbow, on the other hand, was invented by 234 AD and possibly centuries earlier. (Regular crossbows date back to the 5th century BC, and there are possible references to repeating crossbows around 200 BC.)

[...]
When was the crossbow that fires a steady stream of bolts when used with only one hand invented?
As I said, a fantasy world with magic weapons and gnomish artificers isn't directly parallel to ours.

However...

The Zhuge crossbow (named for a Chinese inventor who added several refinements to existing crossbow designs) was in use by 234 AD. The crossbow held a magazine of up to 15 bolts and could be operated with one hand to load, cock, and fire in a matter of seconds. Kore's crossbows have a larger magazine, quicker fire rate, and require less arm motion. But the basic principle is the same. Kore has superhuman strength, is apparently thousands of years old, is using unique custom equipment, and very likely his equipment is magically enhanced.

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the point I was making remains the same. At approximately 1000 AD in our world, the technology to produce a clock mechanism with a minute hand was centuries off whereas repeating crossbows had been in use for over 750 years.

I'll try saying it again. The first two posts in this thread suggested that it was because the GAP are goblins unfamiliar with human civilization that they would not recognize a clock face. The only point I'm trying to make is that it seems quite likely that most humans and dwarves (Minmax, Forgath, Goblinslayer, Saral Caine, etc.) would also not recognize a clock face.

It is not unreasonable for a clock face to be in the dungeon, as someone powerful enough to create such a dungeon is a rare and extreme case, with knowledge far beyond that of even fairly experienced adventurers.

Likewise, it is not unreasonable for Kore, with his longevity, determination, etc. to have extraordinary equipment. He could easily have looted sufficient wealth to pay generations of the finest artificers to create unique masterwork items, he has no interest in spending that wealth in any other significant way, and he has the patience to wait as long as it takes for them to do the job. Frankly, I find it more surprising that he's firing plain wooden bolts instead of magical ammunition.

But if you talked to those elves the GAP so fatefully encountered after leaving the warcamp, I think it's fair to say they would recognize a repeating crossbow (and Kore's equipment as being an extraordinary example of such) but not a clock face.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Generic » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:33 am

WearsHats wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:37 am
Generic wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:30 am
WearsHats wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:36 am
[...]

The repeating crossbow, on the other hand, was invented by 234 AD and possibly centuries earlier. (Regular crossbows date back to the 5th century BC, and there are possible references to repeating crossbows around 200 BC.)

[...]
When was the crossbow that fires a steady stream of bolts when used with only one hand invented?
As I said, a fantasy world with magic weapons and gnomish artificers isn't directly parallel to ours.

However...

The Zhuge crossbow (named for a Chinese inventor who added several refinements to existing crossbow designs) was in use by 234 AD. The crossbow held a magazine of up to 15 bolts and could be operated with one hand to load, cock, and fire in a matter of seconds. Kore's crossbows have a larger magazine, quicker fire rate, and require less arm motion. But the basic principle is the same. Kore has superhuman strength, is apparently thousands of years old, is using unique custom equipment, and very likely his equipment is magically enhanced.

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the point I was making remains the same. At approximately 1000 AD in our world, the technology to produce a clock mechanism with a minute hand was centuries off whereas repeating crossbows had been in use for over 750 years.

I'll try saying it again. The first two posts in this thread suggested that it was because the GAP are goblins unfamiliar with human civilization that they would not recognize a clock face. The only point I'm trying to make is that it seems quite likely that most humans and dwarves (Minmax, Forgath, Goblinslayer, Saral Caine, etc.) would also not recognize a clock face.

It is not unreasonable for a clock face to be in the dungeon, as someone powerful enough to create such a dungeon is a rare and extreme case, with knowledge far beyond that of even fairly experienced adventurers.

Likewise, it is not unreasonable for Kore, with his longevity, determination, etc. to have extraordinary equipment. He could easily have looted sufficient wealth to pay generations of the finest artificers to create unique masterwork items, he has no interest in spending that wealth in any other significant way, and he has the patience to wait as long as it takes for them to do the job. Frankly, I find it more surprising that he's firing plain wooden bolts instead of magical ammunition.

But if you talked to those elves the GAP so fatefully encountered after leaving the warcamp, I think it's fair to say they would recognize a repeating crossbow (and Kore's equipment as being an extraordinary example of such) but not a clock face.
Sure. I will not try to convince you otherwise. I feel intricate mechanical things are well established in the world(and certainly this dungeon) enough to accept clocks. I think clocks might not be so wierd. You don't. Perhaps noone has seen one in this realm ever. Whatever.

If you have a problem with my sarcasm, feel free to tell me so. No need to put it aside.
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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by jeffh4 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:14 pm

WearsHats wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:08 pm
Do mechanical clocks even exist in a D&D world?
The GAP’s ignorance of them reminds me of the All Barbarian Adventuring Party’s complete annihilation of their DM’s attempt to get them to take the high-intellect path through the module he created.

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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by Glemp » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:31 am


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Re: 2020-Jun-08: They break out using their tiny baby hammers.

Post by MarksPaper » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:32 pm

Um, shouldn't Ears be blind? He's holding the Axe Hole while wearing Thac0's blindfold.

Although I suppose he doesn't need to see to just duck and move under the watchvines.

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