The Goblins Fan Forum

I think the main problem with determining Grem's alignment is that we don't know much about him, and we've only ever seen him act under unusual circumstances (a dungeon crawl or combat), save for one or two really short scenes. What little we do know is subject to a number of interpretations:

- He's loyal to the Viper Clan and helps keep the slaves in line. That said, he doesn't seem to take any joy in causing pain or suffering among them.

- He's a very good fighter by their standards, but probably not as good as a goblin with low-level fighter stats.

- He goes into the dungeon crawl against his mother's wishes, a move which was probably motivated in part by love and/or lust for Saves-a-Fox.

- He risks his life to help K'sliss. It appears that this move was done completely without thought of personal gain, and is widely considered to be good.

So, if we want a more solid answer, we'd need more information about his ethics, motives, and background.

To all those saying the attempt at saving Kissless was good, I vividly remember Thunt saying in the feed when drawing those pages that he's just "protecting Mother's property". After all, Unkissable might have been helpful in procuring the Orb of Bloodlight.

Talos wrote:So, if we want a more solid answer, we'd need more information about his ethics, motives, and background.

You may be right. Even though he's been shown in the comic for a decent time, it would seem that we still lack evidence to strongly make an statement about his alignment.

BuildsLegos wrote:To all those saying the attempt at saving Kissless was good, I vividly remember Thunt saying in the feed when drawing those pages that he's just "protecting Mother's property". After all, Unkissable might have been helpful in procuring the Orb of Bloodlight.

That's hard to prove since we don't have evidence that we can show. Besides, I think it takes a lot more than just the wish to "protect property" to dive into the darkness and face a nightmarish monster that just dragged the strongest guy in your group.

My problem with trying to determine the alignment of a character from their actions is that not all actions will be ever be entirely consistent with alignment. You need to average their actions out, and see where most of them lie. So a lawful good character does mostly things in that are lawful-good, sometimes lawful-neutral or lawful-neutral, but occasionally true neutral, or once or twice lawful-evil or chaotic-good.
It's easy to latch on to one or two out-of-character actions and say "look, [character] is being chaotic-neutral" when most of his actions are centred around neutral-good.
Actions inconsistent with one particular alignment seems to be more common than slavish adherence, maybe because prejudice, instinct and roleplaying/characterisation play a role in actions.

should the H symbol be considered the shape of Forgath's I.M.E now? it surrounds the target of whatever spells he casts.

Yes, that's the intended image. Big Ears has brick walls, Complains has a demon tail, Kore has the terrified faces of his victims chained to wings, and Forgath has a giant H. You'll notice that now at level 4, the H is also surrounded by...things.

So, on the subject of stats, which goblin do you think has the highest of each? Like highest strength, intelligence, etc?

If I had to guess strength, it would be a toss-up between Grem and Big Ears, with Complains-of-Names possibly surpassing both of them when he's in a berserk rage. As for dexterity, that would probably be Saves-a-Fox, given her balance on those poles in the dungeon. I'm not sure of the rest, but Thaco probably scores high in wisdom and dexterity too.

Wouldn't Grem be falling behind in just about every stat by now? I mean, everybody (except Vorpal) is level 4 by now, so they should have put a few points into strength. At least Big Ears and Complains.

SamWiser wrote:Wouldn't Grem be falling behind in just about every stat by now? I mean, everybody (except Vorpal) is level 4 by now, so they should have put a few points into strength. At least Big Ears and Complains.

Even though that'd be the logical thing to do, if they don't imply it in the comic there's very little we can do. Same goes for Minmax (str) or Forgath (wis), for example.

Arles wrote:

SamWiser wrote:Wouldn't Grem be falling behind in just about every stat by now? I mean, everybody (except Vorpal) is level 4 by now, so they should have put a few points into strength. At least Big Ears and Complains.

Even though that'd be the logical thing to do, if they don't imply it in the comic there's very little we can do. Same goes for Minmax (str) or Forgath (wis), for example.

Grem still has a more muscular appearance than most of the GAP, from what we have seen. This is despite his lack of class levels. Of course, appearances aren't everything.

Talos wrote:

Arles wrote:

SamWiser wrote:Wouldn't Grem be falling behind in just about every stat by now? I mean, everybody (except Vorpal) is level 4 by now, so they should have put a few points into strength. At least Big Ears and Complains.

Even though that'd be the logical thing to do, if they don't imply it in the comic there's very little we can do. Same goes for Minmax (str) or Forgath (wis), for example.

Grem still has a more muscular appearance than most of the GAP, from what we have seen. This is despite his lack of class levels. Of course, appearances aren't everything.

Grem also comes under the heading of "unique character" and can have slightly altered stats as the DM wills.
We don't know his Strength score, but he was mowing down hobgoblins to the admiration of the other Vipers. He is shown as more powerful than the average goblin.
Edit: For that matter, the Vipers as a whole have looked more muscular than other goblins, and other tribes are intimidated by them. So Grem is an exceptional member of what may be a unique THuntonian goblin subrace.

That's why his chart shows "Str 12". That means his Str is at least 12, but could be higher without a doubt.
According to the evidence, we know hi has a possitive Str modifier. For now, that's all

I'd wager he has some utterly crazy Dex though. Most his maneuvering comes across as Tumble checks to me in order to bypass threat ranges and get by large creatures. Shame he doesn't have a class as the features could tell us more about him for sure.

We now know Forgath's feats are Endurance and Diehard. It's one thing to talk while your character is in the negatives, it's another thing to be able to move (enough to throw yourself off a bridge).

This post is in need of updating. I am curious about the goblin clan seer class progression for Fumbles. Any ideas?

Woah!!

Now this takes me back.

Feel free to take full control of the thread, guys.
I'll see if I can post the images I was using, since dropbox took them down.

Sorry for the double post.

It's also to note that some special characters seem to have changed: for example ~ > and <. I hope someone can restore it so it'll make sense.

I'll leave the links to the images I used back in the day:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ozwi30or5sfye ... s.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2i4sav1vlch9p ... f.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w5fr45fze2con ... s.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9ar3wv1mbebztk/Dies.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h769h0m7nhza6 ... e.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j16jonh4dkia8 ... h.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/86k6vbz6wj0dq ... s.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iqh8s3fsi7hsf29/Grem.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/385zcqj4a2iambs/kin.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ran2kdyem6k0erb/kore.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ecys23qjh7o ... x.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4gkl35x56tfs ... x.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ghp2qc2pqnkx ... o.png?dl=0

I think you'll need to create new images though, for old and new characters alike; since these ones seem to be very outdated.

See ya guys!

Holy necromancy, Batman!

But, yes, I agree. This is in need of updating.

So far I have found a couple of “Seer” classes. Oracle seems to be the most prominent name.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dungeonmus ... agons/amp/

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Oracle_(5e_Class)

The teller isn't a character class. If it was, taking character classes wouldn't have been such a novel idea to the goblins, as they would be used to any goblin being able to take one if they become teller. It is most likely a (homebrew) creature template.

What is Parchment? There's a paper dragon in 5e, but I don't think that's it. If it's a type of pseudo dragon, does that mean Kin is neutral good?

According to this page (https://goblinscomic.com/comic/page-5), kin is at least a level 5 wizard

Dradouggon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:09 pm So far I have found a couple of “Seer” classes. Oracle seems to be the most prominent name.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dungeonmus ... agons/amp/

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Oracle_(5e_Class)

I was thinking it (Seer, or in this case, Teller) was an Adept.

THunt is using 3.0 and 3.5 rules, not 5e, with some homebrew thrown in for flavor. A teller isn't a class they can take, it's a template, like Chief or General Goblin Fodder...

Wolfie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:07 am THunt is using 3.0 and 3.5 rules, not 5e, with some homebrew thrown in for flavor. A teller isn't a class they can take, it's a template, like Chief or General Goblin Fodder...

Oh boy did I ever love playing with templates in character creation. It gets me excited thinking about level adjustments of 3.5. It’s also a nice explanation for why no real class was picked by Fumbles when the GAP picked classes.