Goblins Character Stats

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mosquito_wenzi
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by mosquito_wenzi » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:46 am

I'm pretty sure Forgath's IME is white. Yeah, in the referenced strip the spell had a brown outline, but that was probably for definition. His new beard is white and the spells he's thrown in the current combat are white.

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Sessine
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Sessine » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:18 am

mosquito_wenzi wrote:I'm pretty sure Forgath's IME is white. Yeah, in the referenced strip the spell had a brown outline, but that was probably for definition. His new beard is white and the spells he's thrown in the current combat are white.
That's not white. You should check the colour calibration of your monitor! Maybe you have the brightness / contrast turned up too high? Photoshop tells me Forgath's new beard is hex-value '#f3ddae', a light beige tone. His IME has been that same light warm orange-beige colour all along... remember the badger? (White would be '#ffffff'.)

Also, interestingly, when I did a Save Image from the current comic page to check the above, opening the .jpg I'd just downloaded with Photoshop shows the guides Thunt used for making the panel grid, still turned on. Not sure what's up with that! Photoshop talking to Photoshop, I guess, with hidden info under the cover of the jpg format.
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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:37 pm

So, this could be the entry for Drowbabe. Tell me what you think or if I'm missing anything.

Image
Drowbabe
Alignment?, Drow (07112005), Female, Sorcerer(11202005, 11062005), Level 1 (07022005)
I.M.E.: Dark Blue (11202005)- No Shape
Attributes:
Str ~10 (no evidence)
Dex ~12 (no evidence, drow)
Con ~8 (no evidence, drow)
Int ~11 (cast level 1 spells ((11062005)))
Wis ~10 (no evidence)
Cha ~12 (no evidence, drow)

To Hit Bonus: 0 (Sorcerer)
Feats:
Speels Known: Ray of Frost (11042005), Magic Missile (11062005), Sleep (11192005), Mage Armor (11212005).
Skills: Listen  2, Search  3, Spot  2. (+2 drow)
Spell-Like Abilities: Dancing lights (drow), Darkness (drow), Faerie fire (drow)
Other Traits: Darkvision 120' (drow), Immunity to Sleep spells (drow), +2 on saving throws against enchantments (drow), Spell Resistance 12 (drow).
Items:




-I wil need more time to gather the info on the new gear for Minmax and Forgath. If anyone could give me a hand with that, that'd be awesome-

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Miryafa
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Miryafa » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:43 pm

Arles wrote:So, this could be the entry for Drowbabe. Tell me what you think or if I'm missing anything.

Image
Drowbabe
Alignment?, Drow (07112005), Female, Sorcerer(11202005, 11062005), Level 1 (07022005)
I.M.E.: Dark Blue (11202005)- No Shape
Attributes:
Str ~10 (no evidence)
Dex ~12 (no evidence, drow)
Con ~8 (no evidence, drow)
Int ~11 (cast level 1 spells ((11062005)))
Wis ~10 (no evidence)
Cha ~12 (no evidence, drow)
Sorcerers cast from Cha, not Int, so the "1st level spells" wouldn't mean anything for Int. Also, Drow are "usually neutral evil" (although that's usually ignored by PCs) so in the absence of any other evidence, and based on her actions, you can put that.

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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Oops, I mixed Int with Char.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Also added the Alignment.

Image
Drowbabe
Alignment NE (drow), Drow (07112005), Female, Sorcerer(11202005, 11062005), Level 1 (07022005)
I.M.E.: Dark Blue (11202005)- No Shape
Attributes:
Str ~10 (no evidence)
Dex ~12 (no evidence, drow)
Con ~8 (no evidence, drow)
Int ~12 (no evidence, drow)
Wis ~10 (no evidence)
Cha ~11 (cast level 1 spells ((11062005))

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RedwoodElf
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by RedwoodElf » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:59 am

We also know her name...it's "Tryst"
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning...where the seas sleep and the rivers dream. People made of smoke, and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger. Somewhere there's injustice. Somewhere else, the tea is getting Cold. C'mon Ace, we've got work to do! - The Doctor (Sylvester McCoy, last line in the old series)
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Dagazzard
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Dagazzard » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:31 pm

RedwoodElf wrote:We also know her name...it's "Tryst"
Yup! "Tryst DrowÔÇÖden", according to the wiki.

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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:34 pm

Dagazzard wrote:
RedwoodElf wrote:We also know her name...it's "Tryst"
Yup! "Tryst DrowÔÇÖden", according to the wiki.
RedwoodElf wrote:We also know her name...it's "Tryst"
Excellent. Can you give me a link, please?

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Dagazzard
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Dagazzard » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:39 pm

Arles wrote:Excellent. Can you give me a link, please?
http://goblinscomic.wikia.com/wiki/Drowbabe

"The character known to many readers as simply 'Drow Babe' was written with a name. Around the time of introduction, I was to add her name into the story by having one of the other characters mention it casually, however, I forgot. And before I knew it, enough time had passed in the storyline that if I had introduced her name, it would have changed the whole pace of the story as readers would be raising an eyebrow and saying 'Oh, THATÔÇÖs her name?'. It would have been sort of ÔÇÿout of rhythmÔÇÖ. So anyways, her name was Tryst DrowÔÇÖden. Now you know."

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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:30 am

So, about Kore:

Quick Draw?
Epic Tumble? (Free Stand, or maybe his shield gives him a huge boost to his tumple checks to stand up from a prone position)
Another option is an adaptation from the d20's Mutants and Masterminds which introduces a "feat" called instant up.

What do you guys think?

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RedwoodElf
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by RedwoodElf » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:18 am

Arles wrote:So, about Kore:

Quick Draw?
Epic Tumble? (Free Stand, or maybe his shield gives him a huge boost to his tumple checks to stand up from a prone position)
Another option is an adaptation from the d20's Mutants and Masterminds which introduces a "feat" called instant up.

What do you guys think?
It seems more like his shield gadget has a high STR on its flipping function, so it can flip Kore like Kore can flip it, and has a pair of mechanical levers to stand the shield up that is strong enough to stand him up, allowing him to use a move action to get up and avoid attacks of opportunity.
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning...where the seas sleep and the rivers dream. People made of smoke, and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger. Somewhere there's injustice. Somewhere else, the tea is getting Cold. C'mon Ace, we've got work to do! - The Doctor (Sylvester McCoy, last line in the old series)
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Madfox11
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Madfox11 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:19 am

Arles wrote:So, about Kore:

Quick Draw?
Epic Tumble? (Free Stand, or maybe his shield gives him a huge boost to his tumple checks to stand up from a prone position)
Another option is an adaptation from the d20's Mutants and Masterminds which introduces a "feat" called instant up.

What do you guys think?
I would say that standing up still took an action. The goblins certainly spend 1 round opening the gate and Kore did not attack during the round. So it is definitely not a free action. We also know you really do not need any special skill to stand up regardless of what you are wearing/carrying. In that regards this did feel a bit like a light hearted poke at the expense of some of the D&D mechanics. All we know for sure is that Forgath did not take an AoO or at least missed with his one - I certainly have had players in my games explain missed attacks as never having made the attack being too surprised by the event.

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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:56 am

So you think Forgath just didn't take his AoO, even though he was allowed to make one?

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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Madfox11 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:44 am

Arles wrote:So you think Forgath just didn't take his AoO, even though he was allowed to make one?
Not necessarily. I have had players let their PCs make that AoO in the game, who missed that attack and then described it as if the whole attack was never made because their character was obviously too suprised about the whole ordeal. It tend to happen when one rolls a natural 1, and really do not want to describe their character as some kind of silly idiot that cannot hit the broad side of a barn because that image does not fit their character nor the style of the game. Now whether or not that happened here is up for grabs, but this is a comic and not an actual game and there are bound to be some story driven reasons not to implement certain D&D mechanics (especially since the comic has changed from making purely fun of the D&D tropes to being much more about the story).

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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Laughing Matter » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:13 am

This looks really good. There is one thing that's bothering me though; I'm not sure if this has been discussed somewhere before, but I'd like to challenge Grem's alignment. To me, the actions used as evidence here are exceptions, not rules, to his behaviour.

I don't know if it's just me, but the scene with Grem sitting alone outside the entrance to the Well of Darkness seems to imply he's torn about the decision to 'break the rules' by following the group in order to protect Fox, since it is an act that's in conflict with his alignment: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11172007/ I don't really see it as something he'd do for anything less than a personal cause. Also, valuing honour over survival and going on about how taking class levels is disrespecting those who died without them are things that just scream 'lawful' to me: http://www.goblinscomic.org/01042010/ Grem cares way too much about tradition to be chaotic, and in my opinion, even neutral in the lawful-neutral axis.

About the "good" part (which is always a little controversial subject, so I try to tread carefully): Remember, one does not need to be good-aligned to feel protective of, and even care for one's companions. Even evil characters are capable of bonding with others (remember Dellyn's reaction to Saral Caine's demise: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11272007/). If I've interpreted the alignment rules right, what separates a good character from a neutral and evil character is putting themselves at risk for people they don't share a bond with. Nobody wants bad things to happen to people they care about, but good-aligned characters must also be willing to endanger themselves to help people they don't know, and I just don't get that vibe from Grem. While it is true that he went out of his way to rescue his companion from Mr. Fingers, it could also be interpreted as him feeling K'seliss's actions for the good of the group earlier made him "one of them", i.e. part of his close circle. However, the most startling thing to me is his disregard for the clan's slaves. "Those are my mother's actions, not mine" is something I just can't see a good character say. OTOH, Grem lacks the malicious traits that would make him an outright evil character.

Personally, I would place Grem firmly in the lawful neutral camp, but in the end, that's just my opinion. What do you think? Is there something I missed?

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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:58 pm

Laughing Matter wrote:This looks really good. There is one thing that's bothering me though; I'm not sure if this has been discussed somewhere before, but I'd like to challenge Grem's alignment. To me, the actions used as evidence here are exceptions, not rules, to his behaviour.

I don't know if it's just me, but the scene with Grem sitting alone outside the entrance to the Well of Darkness seems to imply he's torn about the decision to 'break the rules' by following the group in order to protect Fox, since it is an act that's in conflict with his alignment: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11172007/ I don't really see it as something he'd do for anything less than a personal cause. Also, valuing honour over survival and going on about how taking class levels is disrespecting those who died without them are things that just scream 'lawful' to me: http://www.goblinscomic.org/01042010/ Grem cares way too much about tradition to be chaotic, and in my opinion, even neutral in the lawful-neutral axis.

About the "good" part (which is always a little controversial subject, so I try to tread carefully): Remember, one does not need to be good-aligned to feel protective of, and even care for one's companions. Even evil characters are capable of bonding with others (remember Dellyn's reaction to Saral Caine's demise: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11272007/). If I've interpreted the alignment rules right, what separates a good character from a neutral and evil character is putting themselves at risk for people they don't share a bond with. Nobody wants bad things to happen to people they care about, but good-aligned characters must also be willing to endanger themselves to help people they don't know, and I just don't get that vibe from Grem. While it is true that he went out of his way to rescue his companion from Mr. Fingers, it could also be interpreted as him feeling K'seliss's actions for the good of the group earlier made him "one of them", i.e. part of his close circle. However, the most startling thing to me is his disregard for the clan's slaves. "Those are my mother's actions, not mine" is something I just can't see a good character say. OTOH, Grem lacks the malicious traits that would make him an outright evil character.

Personally, I would place Grem firmly in the lawful neutral camp, but in the end, that's just my opinion. What do you think? Is there something I missed?

Hi LM, thanks for bringing that up.

He have discussed about Grem actually, but in the past (2011). Not much has happened to him since, really (woah, 2 and a half years have passed since the discusion).

You can read what we said here: http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3707557

Tell us what you think :)

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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Talos » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:36 pm

I think Grem is more true neutral. He's been shown as willing to defy his mother (who might as well be the law among his tribe) and he's been subtly acting against the slavery of his tribe when it comes to Saves-a-Fox. Of course, he's willing to support the laws of his tribe in other cases, so I'd mark him as true neutral in that way. Morally, he seems like he's interested in his own agenda first, but he is capable of showing some kindness to others, including those he has no special love for, but only on his terms.

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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Laughing Matter » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:22 am

Interesting discussion you guys had there, and proves that alignment discussions are a controversial topic... :shrug:

Okay, I think I see where the difference in ideas lies. Grem does disagree with the teller, but it's likely he just isn't fond of religious dogma (or Riss in general, but maybe I'm reading too much into it). That doesn't say Grem's not lawful: in my opinion, his lawfulness manifests itself in his almost fanatical devotion to the pope, ahem, I mean his clan (Grem expresses readiness to die for the cause: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11032006/), not in full adherence to any authority. As for disobeying is mother, well, I'm not convinced it's something he does on a regular basis (I mean, Riss or Duv have never even referred to Grem as 'a loose cannon' and then grudgingly admitted that he gets results! ;)), but only something he did for Fox's sake. It is also true that he disagrees with the idea of forcing K'seliss and Dies to die for other people's cause, but that seems to me to be indicative of Grem's lawful nature. Perhaps he shows a bit of concern for others there, too, which speaks against him being evil like Duv and Riss. I don't think Grem is neutral on the law-chaos axis either, since I don't see him getting so invested in the whole project, being willing to risk his life and going on and on and on about the honour of his clan and how they will rule the realm one day etc. if he was only in it for himself.

As for Grem being neutral on the good-evil axis, Grem derides Riss for enjoying the suffering of others, but doesn't really show concern for anybody except Fox: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11022006/ "Careful with those words, Riss. It's becoming even more obvious that you enjoy watching others suffer." It is obvious Grem doesn't like the fact that others are hurt, but to be a good-aligned character, Grem should be working to change that instead of throwing the occasional snarky comment and then only helping Fox. He shows tolerance, but not fondness, for using questionable methods to achieve a greater cause, that cause being the good of his clan. To me, that is lawful neutral. He seems to only truly care about prisoners when it's Saves-A-Fox we're talking about, and helping someone you're attracted to and wish to have a relationship with is arguably a very different reason from helping someone unconditionally. That tells to me he's not good, but he can't really be called evil either.

Grem might also be a big fat liar, but so far, I haven't really seen much to indicate this. Going by his actions and attitudes alone, I'd still say he's lawful neutral (perhaps with good and/or neutral tendencies). Maybe it's just me, though. Thoughts?

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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:26 pm

I am willing to agree that he could be Lawful instead of Chaotic. Even if he does occasionally go against authority. He does seem rather devoted to his clan and his honor.

I have no doubt that he's Good, though, not Neutral. And he does numerous things that prove this: expecting everybody to be freed after the work is done, stating that no one should die for someone else's beliefs, going for K' after Mister Fingers' got him, etc, etc, etc.

I would like to read some other opinions on the subject.
Last edited by Arles on Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kamos
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Kamos » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:34 pm

Next time we see him we'll probably have a good idea. Going to stress test the idea that he's good given the traumatic experience of meeting Biscuit. Meeting that Orc is revolutionary.
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Laughing Matter » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:28 am

Fair enough, and I agree that going after K'seliss in an extremely dangerous situation like that is a huge plus in the favor of Grem being good. Other than that one specific scenario, though, I disagree. I still attest that feeling compassion for other sentient beings is not grounds enough to be labeled good, or most of the world would be good-aligned instead of neutral. 'Good' would require going beyond simply feeling the pain of others and then doing nothing concrete for them. In order for him to be good-aligned, I'd expect Grem to insist on freeing the slaves now, instead of after the Vipers have reached their goal, or at the very least to make sure every slave gets treated well, instead of just the woman he wants to date. And like I said before, I see the "no one should die for a cause that's not their own" (which seems to imply that Grem thinks a cause, any cause, is more important than a person's life) as indicative of a lawful nature, not a good one, but maybe that's just me. I tend to throw most characters into the neutral bin unless they show very consistent effort to help others with more than promises, or very blatant disregard for other people.

If Grem is lawful good, I'd suspect he's of the kind where the 'lawful' part is more important than the 'good' part, otherwise he wouldn't as readily agree to the ends justifying the means, and he would definitely not make excuses for his mother, who clearly has no compassion whatsoever for non-goblins.

Oh well, that's all I really have to say about the subject. I'm definitely excited to see what Thunt has in store for Dies, Fox and Grem the next time we see them.

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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:21 am

I do would like to hear more opinions/evidence before changing his entry from Chaotic to Lawful.

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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Wolfie » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:47 am

Just a thought: could Grem be going through an alignment change from Neutral to Good? His actions before the dungeon point to neutral, while his actions inside smack more of Good, especially after Mr. Fingers.
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Gryphonic » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:51 pm

Wolfie wrote:Just a thought: could Grem be going through an alignment change from Neutral to Good? His actions before the dungeon point to neutral, while his actions inside smack more of Good, especially after Mr. Fingers.
That is a very good possibility. We'll have to see what he's doing when the story cuts back to him, and how he interacts with his mother and her policies now. Perhaps his place on the Chaotic - Lawful spectrum is also shifting, and that's why we're still debating it.
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Arles
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Re: Goblins Character Stats

Post by Arles » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:05 pm

Wolfie wrote:Just a thought: could Grem be going through an alignment change from Neutral to Good? His actions before the dungeon point to neutral, while his actions inside smack more of Good, especially after Mr. Fingers.
That's a very good idea, and I support it completely.
Gryphonic wrote:Perhaps his place on the Chaotic - Lawful spectrum is also shifting, and that's why we're still debating it.
Of that I'm not so sure, but it's a possibility. :)

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