22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

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Thrudd
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by Thrudd » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:15 pm

Hjerne wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:33 pm
Bowstrings break.
Random thought

Bowst rings break .... so does he have any rings .... like a tree maybe? :lol:

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by TrueFederalist » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:38 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:58 am
Well suicide bombing isn't exactly "defending yourself" now is it?
No, but having to consider doing it to save others can be decent storyline regardless of whether Idle does that or not. Also, lets face it, the Idle's Bad Idea spell is horribly unbalanced unless situations that could call for it's repeated use in one day crop up.

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:44 am

Let me get this straight: your idea of balance is that there's literally no rest for the living and everyone needs to die as soon as possible. You sound like a very popular GM.
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Rooks
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by Rooks » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:40 am

BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:44 am
Let me get this straight: your idea of balance is that there's literally no rest for the living and everyone needs to die as soon as possible. You sound like a very popular GM.
I think you are jumping to conclusions here. TrueFederalist has a point that it would be very hard to GM a character like Idle. Work up to a big baddie for the team to fight, and then BOOM. She just one-shots him and the team gets the loot without any challenge. 

Like I said in my previous post, it would be fun to play her, but I can see how DMing a campaign with that type of character would be very hard. How do you make it challenging without causing that character to have a guaranteed death (i.e. installing 2 big bad bosses in 1 day)? But I suppose something else to consider is how you personally like to DM. Personally, my favorite campaigns were always run by my friend who tried to make things hard, but far from impossible. He loved DMing and put a lot of effort into his campaigns. We had to be smart to survive. I know other DMs were all about just getting folks loot and making them feel like they were all-powerful which is fun for awhile, until you are loaded with +5 weapons at level 12 and steamrolling everything day after day.

Something else to consider about Idle, we don't really know what else she has for abilities (or I could have forgotten). How useful is her character when she's not doing her 1 big boom spell per day?

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GathersIngredients
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by GathersIngredients » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:35 am

I'm pretty happy about the green ring around Idle's eye being gone. It didn't suit her IMHO.
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:27 am

Rooks wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:40 am
I think you are jumping to conclusions here. TrueFederalist has a point that it would be very hard to GM a character like Idle. Work up to a big baddie for the team to fight, and then BOOM. She just one-shots him and the team gets the loot without any challenge. 

Like I said in my previous post, it would be fun to play her, but I can see how DMing a campaign with that type of character would be very hard. How do you make it challenging without causing that character to have a guaranteed death (i.e. installing 2 big bad bosses in 1 day)? But I suppose something else to consider is how you personally like to DM. Personally, my favorite campaigns were always run by my friend who tried to make things hard, but far from impossible. He loved DMing and put a lot of effort into his campaigns. We had to be smart to survive. I know other DMs were all about just getting folks loot and making them feel like they were all-powerful which is fun for awhile, until you are loaded with +5 weapons at level 12 and steamrolling everything day after day.

Something else to consider about Idle, we don't really know what else she has for abilities (or I could have forgotten). How useful is her character when she's not doing her 1 big boom spell per day?
Giving her a challenge is already accomplished by using the extra life. Now that she's as fragile as any other unarmored Level 3 spell-caster, lesser threats than Buzzin' Woody could easily kill her and proceed to hurt the others. Junior is exactly how you don't maintain a fair challenge because the only solution for even the most prepared minmaxer, even more so than with Kore, is run indefinitely. Junior would be Herbert's way of telling these players "I don't want to play with you ever again" and anybody who tolerates Minmax's ridiculous feats has no right to be cross with a once-per-day suicide bomber. And if it does bother him, it was his own fault for putting the daily death curse on the Curse Wheel to begin with!
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by Morgaln » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:36 am

BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:27 am
Rooks wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:40 am
I think you are jumping to conclusions here. TrueFederalist has a point that it would be very hard to GM a character like Idle. Work up to a big baddie for the team to fight, and then BOOM. She just one-shots him and the team gets the loot without any challenge. 

Like I said in my previous post, it would be fun to play her, but I can see how DMing a campaign with that type of character would be very hard. How do you make it challenging without causing that character to have a guaranteed death (i.e. installing 2 big bad bosses in 1 day)? But I suppose something else to consider is how you personally like to DM. Personally, my favorite campaigns were always run by my friend who tried to make things hard, but far from impossible. He loved DMing and put a lot of effort into his campaigns. We had to be smart to survive. I know other DMs were all about just getting folks loot and making them feel like they were all-powerful which is fun for awhile, until you are loaded with +5 weapons at level 12 and steamrolling everything day after day.

Something else to consider about Idle, we don't really know what else she has for abilities (or I could have forgotten). How useful is her character when she's not doing her 1 big boom spell per day?
Giving her a challenge is already accomplished by using the extra life. Now that she's as fragile as any other unarmored Level 3 spell-caster, lesser threats than Buzzin' Woody could easily kill her and proceed to hurt the others. Junior is exactly how you don't maintain a fair challenge because the only solution for even the most prepared minmaxer, even more so than with Kore, is run indefinitely. Junior would be Herbert's way of telling these players "I don't want to play with you ever again" and anybody who tolerates Minmax's ridiculous feats has no right to be cross with a once-per-day suicide bomber. And if it does bother him, it was his own fault for putting the daily death curse on the Curse Wheel to begin with!
The mistake is not to put the death curse on the wheel. The mistake is to allow a level 3 character without access to a laboratory or funds to research incredibly overpowered spells that take advantage of the curse, and within only a few days., let alone letting them cast those spells. The curse in itself is a feature that would allow for great role-playing opportunities and interesting stories in the hands of a good storyteller.

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:07 pm

Fair enough, but that still concludes that you're all very much mis-characterizing Herbert as decisive enough to not let players get away with over-powered characters and we know that isn't the case.

And la-de-da wouldn't you know, Thunt seems to be telling an interesting story with this character trait, but he's clearly not DONE yet!
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by Rooks » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:17 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:27 am
[Giving her a challenge is already accomplished by using the extra life. Now that she's as fragile as any other unarmored Level 3 spell-caster, lesser threats than Buzzin' Woody could easily kill her and proceed to hurt the others. Junior is exactly how you don't maintain a fair challenge because the only solution for even the most prepared minmaxer, even more so than with Kore, is run indefinitely. Junior would be Herbert's way of telling these players "I don't want to play with you ever again" and anybody who tolerates Minmax's ridiculous feats has no right to be cross with a once-per-day suicide bomber. And if it does bother him, it was his own fault for putting the daily death curse on the Curse Wheel to begin with!
All great points in thinking about these characters in the context of Thunt's story/campaign, which I wasn't. I was more thinking just in general a character that is a low level spell caster who's cursed to die once per day and having way overpowered spells at her disposal. Herbert's campaign does definitely seem to portray itself as a type where you have to propose crazy minmax strategies even to have a prayer of surviving.

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:44 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:07 pm
And la-de-da wouldn't you know, Thunt seems to be telling an interesting story with this character trait, but he's clearly not DONE yet!
And for the record, what I mean by this is more than the budding romance I mentioned earlier; if Bowst survives the death of his only willing sex-partner, then he'll likely become a survival-rapist. And going by Thunt's passionate denial of this ever happening, it's safe to say that's the only exception.

And yet "Bowstrings break" implies a non-lethal breaking point. As early as the next page, I think we're going to see his allegiance change based on the same feeling of disenfranchisement that we saw in the mud-pit. Maybe Ward will be worried about Salt getting infected while Bowst is in negative hit-points.

Edit: Also, daily curses were probably acquired some way other than the wheel; as that seems to be themed entirely around cosmetic transformations.
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GathersIngredients
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by GathersIngredients » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:46 pm

NSFW musings about Bowst's daily curse
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Krulle wrote:My bad memory allows me to enjoy positive news far more often!
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by Generic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:38 am

GathersIngredients wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:46 pm
NSFW musings about Bowst's duly curse
► Show Spoiler
I completely forgot (repressed the memory) about that.
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by rwstyles » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:18 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:24 pm
Even if it is Buzzin' Woody, which is suggested by the word-balloon and the angle now that you mention it, look at the state of him with skeleton-Idle hanging out of its mouth like a cartoon tongue. The teeth are cracked, the jaws have been severed, and the bugs are no longer buzzing around it. This is the creature's dying words, same as Bowler* before him.

How's that for original klik's name? "Dies' pal" just doesn't cut it and his given name has been obsolete for a while now.
If you want to name this new, now hopefully dead klik, call it either "Buzz" or "Woody". I like Buzz better.

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by rwstyles » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:24 pm

Rooks wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:40 am
BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:44 am
Let me get this straight: your idea of balance is that there's literally no rest for the living and everyone needs to die as soon as possible. You sound like a very popular GM.
I think you are jumping to conclusions here. TrueFederalist has a point that it would be very hard to GM a character like Idle. Work up to a big baddie for the team to fight, and then BOOM. She just one-shots him and the team gets the loot without any challenge. 

Like I said in my previous post, it would be fun to play her, but I can see how DMing a campaign with that type of character would be very hard. How do you make it challenging without causing that character to have a guaranteed death (i.e. installing 2 big bad bosses in 1 day)? But I suppose something else to consider is how you personally like to DM. Personally, my favorite campaigns were always run by my friend who tried to make things hard, but far from impossible. He loved DMing and put a lot of effort into his campaigns. We had to be smart to survive. I know other DMs were all about just getting folks loot and making them feel like they were all-powerful which is fun for awhile, until you are loaded with +5 weapons at level 12 and steamrolling everything day after day.

Something else to consider about Idle, we don't really know what else she has for abilities (or I could have forgotten). How useful is her character when she's not doing her 1 big boom spell per day?
There are always ways to punish players for overreach. If the players honestly attempt to beat your threat without resorting to an Idle spell, so much the better.

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by BuildsLegos » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:25 pm

Complains (landing on his arm to save Fumbles) and Forgath (Kore chopping his shoulder) both had disabled arms for a brief period, until Big Ears and the Klik tribe respectively healed them. Then of course, there are those times body-parts were disabled via removal.

Rwstyles, don't ruin my Toy Story reference! Besides, he has 1 page left before we only speak of him in past-tense.
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by Formaltide » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:05 pm

Rooks wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:40 am
BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:44 am
Let me get this straight: your idea of balance is that there's literally no rest for the living and everyone needs to die as soon as possible. You sound like a very popular GM.
I think you are jumping to conclusions here. TrueFederalist has a point that it would be very hard to GM a character like Idle. Work up to a big baddie for the team to fight, and then BOOM. She just one-shots him and the team gets the loot without any challenge. 

Like I said in my previous post, it would be fun to play her, but I can see how DMing a campaign with that type of character would be very hard. How do you make it challenging without causing that character to have a guaranteed death (i.e. installing 2 big bad bosses in 1 day)? But I suppose something else to consider is how you personally like to DM. Personally, my favorite campaigns were always run by my friend who tried to make things hard, but far from impossible. He loved DMing and put a lot of effort into his campaigns. We had to be smart to survive. I know other DMs were all about just getting folks loot and making them feel like they were all-powerful which is fun for awhile, until you are loaded with +5 weapons at level 12 and steamrolling everything day after day.

Something else to consider about Idle, we don't really know what else she has for abilities (or I could have forgotten). How useful is her character when she's not doing her 1 big boom spell per day?
Perhaps give her curse an extra condition, like if she uses her free life up, she is exceedingly frail for the rest of the day until her free life returns? Basically, that would put her out of commission and possibly turn her into a handicap for the tradeoff of having convenient suicide spells.

You could get pretty creative with it. She could be cursed to have a higher chance of encounters to balance out her extra life. Or perhaps have to fight an evil spirit that attempts to kill her every day, so that she has to consider whether it's worth throwing away her extra life or not knowing that she might get assassinated by a strong monster later.

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by BuildsLegos » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:48 pm

I think Elven wizards are already plenty frail, as I already suggested with maybe too much confidence, no need to force the issue. And if any of your hypothetical curses were in play, we would have heard of them by now.
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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by TrueFederalist » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:07 pm

BuildsLegos wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:44 am
Let me get this straight: your idea of balance is that there's literally no rest for the living and everyone needs to die as soon as possible. You sound like a very popular GM.
Actually, as a DM, I'd probably never even allow such a spell in the first place. But Herbert's campaign has quite a few unbalanced aspects. That said, it's fairly clear that the players who have Herbert as their GM are quite willing to play campaigns in which character death has a fairly high chance of happening.

Last, but not least, the latest comic has Idle doing the intelligent thing - RUN!

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Re: 22nd October 2018: Idle's Bad Idea

Post by BuildsLegos » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:07 pm

And with that, maybe Herbert actually is growing a spine after all. Idle's only hope may be that an already recovered Bowst is hiding amongst these trees and can make another strike, which will 100% finish it off at this rate.
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