16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

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BuildsLegos
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by BuildsLegos » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:17 am

It doesn't matter if you're the Collector or Michael Myers, murder is still murder. Grabbing the rape-tool before the rape victim can take it off is still sexual assault.

To commemorate the finishing of this discussion, has ANYBODY noticed my much better improvement of Morgaln's story?
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by Wolfie » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:10 pm

BookWyrm17 wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:40 pm I would like to note that, above all, this is a game of DnD being played by a bunch of people who were here to have fun. And a good DnD game isn't defined by the best story or the best Roleplay or the strongest characters. A good DnD game is defined by if the whole group is having fun.

Yes, sometimes that means a deep, serious story with realistic mourning and grief and learning to live again. But having players that can do that without complaint doesn't mean they're the *best* players. I myself love some good RP, and dice rolling. [sic]

As Thunt established early on, the players in this comic love jokes. That's all the first few pages were, even. Memes and laughs and ridiculousness.

Eventually, the players started to see the world, and get attached to the characters, and really fall into their heads. To understand them, and find a plot, and run with it. To enjoy the serious roleplay too.

But underneath it all, even between the grief and pain and epicness, the players enjoy corny, silly, rude jokes. And while normally, that stuff would be out-of-character, just funny jokes around the table, its clear that this world is much more meta than that, and the characters are as much the players as the players are the characters.
This.

I once played a D&D campaign where only three of the original 6 characters survived, and mine was the only one to not die at all. One person had 4 characters during the campaign. Did our characters feel the loss? Yes, but they didn't have the time to sit around and mope and be depressed. They had their lives to save and others that were counting on them, though they didn't know it. My character had an affair with one of the NPC's and went off on a raging, crying tangent when he committed noble suicide. She honored him with her actions throughout the rest of the campaign, but it didn't stop her from cracking jokes and bantering with people less than a day later.
We mourned the loss of our friends, but other things took precedence. We all mentioned that mourning would best be done at the end, when we had the time to indulge.
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by Davis8488 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:18 pm

There are frequent debates in the forum about things like the tone of the comic, or delays between updates.

It has been more than a decade since this comic started. You should know by now that it's like this.

Fumbles was goofing off, and jokes were being made by the Goblins when they were less than a day removed from the destruction of their war camp, where most of their friends were killed.
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If anything I say offends you I am sorry. It is likely late and I am tired, or I'm upset and I am not thinking straight, and though I sincerely wish I could, I can't express myself in such a way that helps you be less of a crybaby.
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by redfeather » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:41 pm

I could definitely argue the point more, but I think it's clear this community isn't interested in listening to dissenting voices. I'll just go back to lurking.

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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:59 pm

Red Feather, you're the only "dissenting voice" in this thread who was objectively wrong. This declaration of yours is just a cowardly surrender.
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by RocketScientist » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:40 pm

Dissent all you want. It's a discussion. Just don't hold your breath waiting for anyone from either side to change their mind. :shrug:

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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by redfeather » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:16 am

RocketScientist wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:40 pm Dissent all you want. It's a discussion. Just don't hold your breath waiting for anyone from either side to change their mind. :shrug:
Very well. Here is the post I refrained from making yesterday. Feel free to delete it if it crosses a line of any sort.
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by Generic » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:57 pm

BuildsLegos wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:59 pm Red Feather, you're the only "dissenting voice" in this thread who was objectively wrong. This declaration of yours is just a cowardly surrender.
HISS

Not OK. I do not approve.

Everything is subjective as hell since we're talking about our interpretations, and you do not call anyone a coward. No. I am not ok with that statement.
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by Morgaln » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:22 pm

redfeather wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:16 am
RocketScientist wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:40 pm Dissent all you want. It's a discussion. Just don't hold your breath waiting for anyone from either side to change their mind. :shrug:
Very well. Here is the post I refrained from making yesterday. Feel free to delete it if it crosses a line of any sort.
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I'm afraid you're misrepresenting what the discussion was about. To repeat the part of my original post that spawned this whole discussion:
Minmax declares his love to a female friend. When she tells him she isn't interested, he tries to rape her to make her see how great he is (that is the closest real-world analogy to trying to mind-control her into having a relationship with him, I'm afraid). He doesn''t go through with it, but she parts with him forever in a highly emotional scene.
Therefore, I never said what Minmax did was exactly like rape. I said that he went through actions similar to preparing to rape her, but also that he stopped before going through with it. You then made various posts about how nothing of what Minmax did even comes close to rape and compared it to blackmail instead. I proceeded to explain how the effects of the leash don't compare to blackmail at all and are far more like restraining or imprisoning someone, as well as the implications that kind of effect would have on someone with Kin's past.
In other words, I never said what Minmax did was exactly like rape. I also never said that was completely unforgivable. I am, however, of the opinion that it is not something you just forgive after a few days. Trying to heal from traumatic experience is a good thing. So is forgiving a person who assaulted you. But seeking out the person who assaulted you because you think you love them and want to have a relationship with them is questionable at best. But then, abused spouses return to their partners all the time, so there's certainly precedent in the real world.

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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by Generic » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:35 pm

Rape being such a big issue will get subjected to a lot of hair-splitting. Rape sucks, and comparisons to rape tend to bring the suckiness with it. I think I understand what you meant Morgaln, but it getting batted back and forth was almost a given from the get-go.
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Re: 16 July 2018: Sorry, who's up there?

Post by redfeather » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:45 am

Morgaln wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:22 pm I'm afraid you're misrepresenting what the discussion was about.
Oh really?
Morgaln wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:30 pm
When she tells him she isn't interested, he tries to rape her to make her see how great he is (that is the closest real-world analogy to trying to mind-control her into having a relationship with him, I'm afraid). He doesn''t go through with it, but she parts with him forever in a highly emotional scene.
Morgaln wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:22 pm
Therefore, I never said what Minmax did was exactly like rape.
You didn't say it "was exactly like rape", but you did say it "was rape" (attempted). I mentioned that I was tired of semantics.
Morgaln wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:30 pm You then made various posts about how nothing of what Minmax did even comes close to rape and compared it to blackmail instead. I proceeded to explain how the effects of the leash don't compare to blackmail at all and are far more like restraining or imprisoning someone
Blackmail is, essentially, a form of restraint or imprisonment, only it is social rather than physical.
I also never said that was completely unforgivable.
Okay, fair enough. Let's say that this part of my argument was directed not at you, but at against the general societal attitude about rape.
I am, however, of the opinion that it is not something you just forgive after a few days.
We don't know how long Kin stayed in the Maze level-grinding with her alternates. It could have been years. Hell, it could have been centuries (we don't know how long yuan-t....er, Silkscales live, and the Maze of Many is timeless anyway. She could have spent a solid decade murdering effigies of Minmax, until she realized she didn't hate him any more, that she never really had, that it was just a momentary shock and that she's completely over it.
Trying to heal from traumatic experience is a good thing. So is forgiving a person who assaulted you. But seeking out the person who assaulted you because you think you love them and want to have a relationship with them is questionable at best.
Why? If you "think" you love them, then you do. Love isn't some objective thing that can be scientifically measured; it is a figment of people's imaginations, and therefore anyone who imagines that they feel it actually does.
But then, abused spouses return to their partners all the time, so there's certainly precedent in the real world.
Even the term "abuse" is subjective and excessively charged. I don't think people should even go around calling relationships "abusive" a tenth as often as they do. It's kind of like calling every police officer a killer of unarmed black people; certainly, such incidents have happened, but to automatically assume such a crime exists in every situation where it could, that every husband who has ever struck his wife is an abuser, that every man who has ever breached consent is a rapist...that's going too far, it's escalating situations when they should be de-escalated, and it gives people who have actually done something wrong no incentive to try and behave better, because they're going to be called villains and monsters anyway.

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