24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

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Sessine
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Sessine » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:20 am

BuildsLegos wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:24 am First Kin, now Forgath. Thunt has a bad habit of rushing characters through potent and dramatic character development at a much faster rate than any real person can reasonably be expected to...take. (Don't you hate it when you can't think of the last word to finish a sentence?)
Though I understand the point you're making, the webcomic format makes subtle and realistic character development really difficult to pull off. I can think of a couple of artists (well, maybe three) who are doing an excellent job of it, but they all routinely get flak from fans as each page is published.

This scene may be an add-on. I know the original story was set in stone a long time ago, but Thunt just recently had a very serious brush with death. This may have given him new ideas that he wants to work into the story. Another layer of meaning won't be easy, since there are future events that still MUST and WILL happen. If I am right, if that's what he's doing here, well, he's expanding into new writing territory for him. I won't expect all the joints to be invisible.

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by BuildsLegos » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:59 am

That's what I'm trying to say, I totally get that a flaw like this is simply going to happen. Even Unsounded, an even better fantasy webcomic than Goblins, will have subtle continuity flaws from one panel to another.
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A more reasonable version of this mantra is that since perfection is impossible, settle for being better than before to the best of your understanding. And as Thunt's career thus far can show, he excels fantastically in that regard.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Shardstorm » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:22 pm

As for the rushing characters through development, we also have people on the forums complaining that it's slowing down the pace of the story. It can't be both ways. Plus, I'd argue snap character development is also a product of the D&D story. A lot of people I play with think about actions and effects on their characters between stories, and come in with an intention to act that new idea or direction out in a session or two. Things happen quickly when you essentially only get snap shots. So I see it fitting D&D players.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Wolfie » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:36 am

Shardstorm wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:22 pm As for the rushing characters through development, we also have people on the forums complaining that it's slowing down the pace of the story. It can't be both ways. Plus, I'd argue snap character development is also a product of the D&D story. A lot of people I play with think about actions and effects on their characters between stories, and come in with an intention to act that new idea or direction out in a session or two. Things happen quickly when you essentially only get snap shots. So I see it fitting D&D players.
You articulated what I wanted to say. :)

Goblins is, at its core, a D&D story. I think we tend to forget that or think that we've moved on from that. THunt tends to throw things in to remind us of it, every so often. D&D stories happen in real life over months but in game it is only a few days. Development seems really pushed because we're applying real world time frames to a game.

Personally, these past couple of pages are very telling of THunt's current state of mind. Not only are his characters evolving, but so is he as a story teller. I can't wait to see what happens next.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Tofu » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:38 pm

ditto the above.

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Catmandont » Tue May 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Glemp wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:55 am
Krulle wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:54 pm "Lot's of screaming" dos NOT sound like a death where the dying person "made peace"....
It might be a case of Forgath screaming in pain, then getting the "it's beautiful" epiphany right before he dies.
I do not remember this being brought up before, so if it has... oh, well.

I can imagine that the 'Lot's of screaming' descriptive could refer to everyone witnessing Forgath's death at it's happening. That would definitely be traumatic for those who hold him dear, as well as yet another emotional farewell to a reader favorite (I still tear up a bit when I reread Click's death scene).
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Glemp » Wed May 02, 2018 2:11 pm

Catmandont wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 1:57 pm
Glemp wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:55 am
Krulle wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:54 pm "Lot's of screaming" dos NOT sound like a death where the dying person "made peace"....
It might be a case of Forgath screaming in pain, then getting the "it's beautiful" epiphany right before he dies.
I do not remember this being brought up before, so if it has... oh, well.

I can imagine that the 'Lot's of screaming' descriptive could refer to everyone witnessing Forgath's death at it's happening. That would definitely be traumatic for those who hold him dear, as well as yet another emotional farewell to a reader favorite (I still tear up a bit when I reread Click's death scene).
IIRC the Wall says "It's not a good death either. Lots of screaming." That suggests the death itself is painful, not just witnessing it.

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Krulle » Thu May 03, 2018 12:31 am

The page : http://goblinscomic.com/comic/12152009
http://goblinscomic.com/comic/12152009 wrote:Talking Wall: Oh yeah, that's totally going to happen.
Talking Wall: And not a good death either.
Talking Wall: Lots of screaming.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by TrueFederalist » Sat May 05, 2018 10:23 pm

As for Idle's response, I'm thinking her player has likely played a dwarf before, hence the comment.

Problem is, I don't recall a previous dwarf PC character, hence I've got the following odd theory.

When characters get possessed or the like, they often change from being PC's to NPC's. Perhaps Idle's player previously played Kore?

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Guus » Sun May 06, 2018 6:02 am

She’s transformed beyond recognition right? Idle could very well be a cursed dwarf.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Inspired » Sun May 06, 2018 8:50 am

Guus wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 6:02 am She’s transformed beyond recognition right? Idle could very well be a cursed dwarf.
She is an elf. :)
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Guus » Sun May 06, 2018 11:53 am

Ah, fair enough. Totally forgot about that, thanks!
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by BuildsLegos » Sun May 06, 2018 1:53 pm

Still, that he(?) probably played a dwarf before is still a valid theory and that character doesn't even have to be Kore. In fact, I think Herbert is re-contextualizing and/or ret-conning his own 1st Edition murder-hobo.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by sunphoenix » Mon May 07, 2018 5:49 am

I'm not criticizing anyone... certainly not Thunt.. he has gone through so many difficulties, but I must rail against the idea that there is ANYTHING such as a "good death". I lost my mother in death over a year ago... and I am still not over it... but along with just the emotional loss of her constant loving presence in my life ~ a pillar upon whichj my lifwe has stood for long... comes the doubt and regret that comes with always wondering...was I a good enough son? Did I love her enough? Could I have done more..could I have been a little nicer.. a little more obbedient..could I have told her how much of the person I am today... is bacuase of her? I'll never get that chance in this life...she's gone.

ANY Death is a tragic loss of something unique and precious...something irreplaceable and more than that one lost soul... but also the pain that most precious and unique life had on all the other lives it touched and affected. Our lives are not our own... we ALL of Us belong the to the lives our life we touches...for good or bad in our living.

There is not such thing as a "Good Death"... every death is just that a tragic loss of th emost valuable and precious thing anyone can loose.

Now.. I need to dry my eyes.. and I'm sorry if .. I insulted or offended anyone... it weas not my intention.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Wolfie » Mon May 07, 2018 7:18 am

I don't think THunt was talking about those left behind for a Good Death. I think he was talking about the experience a person/character goes through at the time of their passing. I believe with all my heart that my grandmother had a "good" death. She passed away, peacefully, in her sleep after a harsh battle with lung cancer that spread to her lymph nodes. My Papaw also had a "good" death. Surrounded by family and his wife of 62 years; also in his sleep.

The pain felt by those of us left behind is nothing good. However, time can mellow the hurt and allow the good memories back in. I also believe that when your time comes, you can either fight and scream, simply accept it, or embrace it. IMO, THunt is speaking of the third when it comes to Idle and her conversation with Forgath.

@sunphoenix - I'm sorry for your loss.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Sessine » Mon May 07, 2018 7:39 am

Sunphoenix, you have my deepest sympathies. It is never easy to lose someone you love, no matter how long you had with them. My youngest brother died at the age of six and our family was never the same afterwards. My mother lived into her mid-80s, my father to his mid-90s. Now I am in my mid-70s myself, and I am looking at my beloved children and grandchildren, wondering if there is anything I can say or do to ease them about my own passing, which... well, nothing's certain until it happens, but it looks like it might not be that far away.

I can tell you this: you are the mark she left on the world -- or part of it, anyway. For as long as you live, you will remember and honor your mother for who she was, and how she changed your life. She made a difference. If you loved her, you didn't have to keep saying it. She knew it well, and it was a comfort to her.

In the end, that is all any of us get. Everyone dies. Everyone. It is the natural order of things, and there are no exceptions. Nor should there be. I can only speak for myself, but I am a mother who loves her children. I cannot spare them the grief of missing me. I really hope I can spare them some of the regrets you are feeling, that somehow they should have done something differently, something better. In living their lives, they are giving to me. They are shaping the future with what I taught them. They are making who I am, and how I have lived, matter. It is what I want them to do.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Guus » Mon May 07, 2018 7:49 am

That sucks Phoenix, I wish you the best.

And Sessine, don't you dare have your death not far away, you're supposed to stay here indefinitely to disagree with stuff I complain about! :winkwink:
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by RocketScientist » Mon May 07, 2018 11:13 am

Sorry for your loss, sunphoenix.

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Matney X » Fri May 11, 2018 7:54 am

... Thunt hasn't updated this comic, and he hasn't been active on Twitter in over 24 hours (I'm sure there's history of this happening, but not in the time I've been passively watching)... Should I be as worried about this as I am?

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Wolfie » Fri May 11, 2018 8:18 am

He posted a preview for the Patreons for the next update a couple days ago.

There are a few people here who have near direct access to him we could ask to reach out.
"This is my therapy dragon, she's for my panic attacks. I attack, everyone panics." (Quote found on http://outofcontextdnd.tumblr.com/)

"If I have a +2 strength sword and I stab you, you won't get a +2 strength, you get wounds" ~Sir Butcher

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Matney X » Fri May 11, 2018 9:27 am

I assume if anything bad happens, we'll know. It's just kind of scary when he has "hey, I almost died!" experiences and a history of debilitating depression.

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Krulle » Fri May 11, 2018 11:50 am

Matney X wrote: Fri May 11, 2018 7:54 am ... Thunt hasn't updated this comic, and he hasn't been active on Twitter in over 24 hours (I'm sure there's history of this happening, but not in the time I've been passively watching)... Should I be as worried about this as I am?
He did tweet just some three hours ago. I' e not checked when you postd, so it may be after you. But he seems to be fine.
And besides the cited tweet, he also made cat/wife/chick jokes....
@Thunt_Goblins wrote:(Singing)
Hello Thaco my old friend.
I've come to draw you here again.
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Would also make a nice avatar.
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Wolfie » Fri May 11, 2018 12:47 pm

I'd like him to finish the lyrics... :D
"This is my therapy dragon, she's for my panic attacks. I attack, everyone panics." (Quote found on http://outofcontextdnd.tumblr.com/)

"If I have a +2 strength sword and I stab you, you won't get a +2 strength, you get wounds" ~Sir Butcher

"How few there are who have courage enough to own their faults, or resolution enough to mend them." ~Benjamin Franklin

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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Krulle » Sat May 12, 2018 6:17 am

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I'm willing to give it a try. Not much to change either.
Not really good in transporting one message with my adaptation, but suggestions for improvements are welcome.



Hello Thaco my old friend,
I've come to draw you here again
Because a vision solftly creepin
Left its seed while I should be sleepin
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of crayons.

In restless dreams I drew you alone
Narrow streets of Goblinshome
In the halo of the silver moonlight
I used my crayon on the tablight
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a magic light
That split the night
And touched the sounds of crayons.

And in the naked light I drew
Ten thousand monsters, maybe more
Monsters talking without speaking
Goblins hearing without listening
People drawing sketches that paper never shares
And no one dared
disturb the sound of crayons.

Fools, said I, you do not know
Image details like cancer grows
See my sketch that I might teach you
Take my arms that might reach you
But my sketches like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the panels of comics.

And the people bowed and prayed
To the magic light they made
And the drawings flashed out their warning
In the panels they were forming
And the comic said, the words of the prophets are spoken by Brassmoon Wall,
and Tellers dead,
And drawn with the sounds of Crayons.

Original: Paul Simon
Mangled by: Krulle
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Re: 24 April2018 - "'You clearly don't know much about Dwarves"

Post by Wolfie » Tue May 15, 2018 10:26 am

:clap: :clap: :clap:
"This is my therapy dragon, she's for my panic attacks. I attack, everyone panics." (Quote found on http://outofcontextdnd.tumblr.com/)

"If I have a +2 strength sword and I stab you, you won't get a +2 strength, you get wounds" ~Sir Butcher

"How few there are who have courage enough to own their faults, or resolution enough to mend them." ~Benjamin Franklin

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