29-01-2018: Who's There?

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by BuildsLegos » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:32 pm

I've never heard of racial leveling -especially in DnD; but that doesn't matter much when her powers are subdued.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by thinkslogically » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:44 pm

She's only subdued when someone holds the leash tho.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by RocketScientist » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:15 pm

I missed that. So she's had all kinds of psionic and shape shifting powers all this time?
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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Morgaln » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:21 am

BuildsLegos wrote:I've never heard of racial leveling -especially in DnD; but that doesn't matter much when her powers are subdued.
Racial leveling is included in some supplements, at least if you include 3rd party supplements. Usualy it allows a character to take a few levels (usually up to three) in their race instead of in any class, thus unlocking additional abilities available only to their race. This allows for races to be player characters without making them crazily overpowered from the start. One example I know of is the WoW D20 rules book.
I don't know if there are any official WotC books that allow for this. Since Yuan-Ti are not open source material, the rules for them as player characters cannot be easily found online (and I don't have access to the relevan supplement), so I don't know what powers a Yuan-Ti character would have available either.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Hjerne » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:23 am

BuildsLegos wrote:Hm, I figured the ogre with the crossbow was a medium-level threat just by his size, but now I'm starting to realize your assessment that Kore is more neighborhood's dogs worth of barking than bite might be onto something. After all, I always compare him to a Terminator, but their primary targets are an untrained woman and child respectively. I was expecting that Kin would for sure escape with her life to be indication enough of how far she's gotten, but now I'm hedging my bets she'll achieve a non-lethal victory even without letting Kore dominate the symbols. Granted, that increases her chances of getting hurt in the process; but what good is a tail like that if she isn't going to curl up like a rattlesnake?
3rd edition ogre is 4d8+8. So it's about a 4th level monster. It took Kore several shots to take him down and his crossbow did manage to wound Kore. So yeah, about a level 7 adventurer vs an ogre type result.


I've been thinking that maybe part of Kore's curse is that he is frozen at the point that he was cursed. So he doesn't age, he doesn't die, and he doesn't lose his paladin status no matter how much evil he commits. But he also doesn't gain levels

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by BuildsLegos » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:26 am

As you said, the probable lack of leveling can easily be a side-effect of grinding on weaklings; I asked a Game HQ clerk once and he confirmed that a perception-altering curse is the only way to have a paladin commit evil without loosing their powers. Thunt has gone on record that dwarves a) live for centuries and b) keep growing and becoming more stone-like; that Kore is so much bigger than Forgath is because he is all but confirmed at this point as the Last Greyhill Paladin. So the nature of the curse is that a) his victims appear all over his visage and b) he severely misunderstands the nature of good and evil.
RocketScientist wrote:I missed that. So she's had all kinds of psionic and shape shifting powers all this time?
This is why it's safe to say Thunt could have worded that balloon better.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Guus » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:57 am

IÔÇÖm so excited about this update, curious to see what happend next!
You might be right, but is it productive?

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Sidewaysgts » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:27 am

Hjerne wrote:
BuildsLegos wrote:Do you actually think they made it through Brassmoon City without leveling up? Besides, this authentic Paladin spell puts him at least level 14 or higher. You can't use Big Ears' rope-trick to gauge anyone's level, as that magic-abusing loophole subverts the prospect of health; instead of being injured, Kore was being deprived a vital resource.

Which magic item of Forgath's are you counting, the +2 strength ring, the Kinslayer, the indestructible beard, the Hammace, or the fact that he reached level 4 mid-battle? Because with all that going for him, he was nearly chopped into thirds and could only manage to impale Kore through the hand for his troubles.

None of us are suggesting Kin will die here for sure, but there's no way Kore won't at least give her a good scare.
I'm not sure why you think the page you linked means he has to be level 14. Lay on hands is available to Paladins at level 2. It's an innate ability. Now he does have to be at least level 9 because he used remove paralysis and he wouldn't get that spell until level 9.
I will admit that I forgot Forgath had all those magic items but it still means that Kore is not that powerful. One of Thunt's latest tweets is that he kept a record of all the damage that Forgath dealt to Kore because it was extensive. Yet people in twitter and here were reacting as if Kin being slaughtered in battle against him is a forgone conclusion. When I saw who was coming my first reaction wasn't "NOOOOOOOOOOO" but rather Kore is going to find out what it's like to fight somebody his level.
Correct me if im wrong but im PRETTY sure that page was keeping track on the costmetic damage forgath did to kore

Unless forgath putting a chip in kores axe counts as physical damage to kore.

The only real damage Forgath did to kore was a stab through the hand. Everything else was, as far as we could see, largely cosmetic armor / equipment damage.

Noting that forgath did that with the axe of racism, which gave some ridiculous bonuses to people of your own race- And its highly likely forgath wouldnt have dont any damage to him without that thing period.

ALSO keeping in mind how impressively anal Thunt is with his detail, and the importance of that when he talks about "keepin track of damage". Were talking about a guy who ALSO keeps diagrams with different colored blood splats related to chronological order, so he can keep tabs on how far blood "should have dripped", when comparing an earlier wound to a newer on- so that the older wound physically has blood dripping more than a newer one, and the direction is "dripped" in relation to the action going on.

Seriously- Forgath didnt do diddly to kore.

Neither did the GAP. Keep in mind- Up until the rope trick, they didnt do *any* damage to him. And when Complains tries to tell thaco that thaco nearly "killed him" by fusing that rope through his throat-

Thaco corrects Complains and basically says "Killed him? I only pissed him off".

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Glemp » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:15 am

thinkslogically wrote:She's only subdued when someone holds the leash tho.
For as long as her collar's on, her powers are subdued. When someone holds the leash, she has to obey, and cannot attack, them.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:36 am

You're probably right. The posted link just said it worked when someone was holding the leash, but there's a ton of detail that I've forgotten :lol:

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by ForgetsOldName » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:28 pm

I have this wacky idea that Kore will cast remove curse on the leash and then she'll be free. I just can't figure out how we'll get there.
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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:32 pm

I'm not sure... Kin taking off her collar in a nuclear explosion of self-sacrifice is also something I could see happening.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by ForgetsOldName » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:31 pm

But remember she suspects the explosion was a hoax. If she's at death's door, she risks it, get's her powers back? That would be interesting.
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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by thinkslogically » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:42 pm

For sure. I think the collar has an interesting part to play in the story, but I think it'll take a pretty terrible situation for kin to risk blowing up a mountain on a gamble. A last-ditch attempt might well be the trigger that does it. Or it happens now and then there's a quest thru hell to get her back, Orpheus style.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Xavier78 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:32 pm

ForgetsOldName wrote:But remember she suspects the explosion was a hoax. If she's at death's door, she risks it, get's her powers back? That would be interesting.
Yuan-Ti innate powers are so powerful that she would risk it, IMO.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Morgaln » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:57 am

I don't think Kin can take off the collar. The page talking about the explosion was saying that it would happen if someone cast Remove Curse on it, as evidenced here. There was no mention at all of just taking off the collar. My assumption is that the collar acts like most cursed items in D&D and it is physically impossible to take it off without casting Remove Curse first.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by ForgetsOldName » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:54 am

Morgaln wrote:I don't think Kin can take off the collar. The page talking about the explosion was saying that it would happen if someone cast Remove Curse on it, as evidenced here. There was no mention at all of just taking off the collar. My assumption is that the collar acts like most cursed items in D&D and it is physically impossible to take it off without casting Remove Curse first.
So Kore does it...because it somehow aligns to his moral code?

Or maybe Forgath, Idle, and Bowst show up and Forgath tries a last hope strategy?
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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Eaglem » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:09 pm

So thinking about the prophecy and Kins leash... Is it possible Kore would use it to make Kin a tool to kill any other "monsters?" If so, thinking about the prophecy that Forgath goes to kill kin to save/release her from this fate and it's something Minmax couldn't handle Thus "friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate."

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Xavier78 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:45 pm

Eaglem wrote:So thinking about the prophecy and Kins leash... Is it possible Kore would use it to make Kin a tool to kill any other "monsters?" If so, thinking about the prophecy that Forgath goes to kill kin to save/release her from this fate and it's something Minmax couldn't handle Thus "friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate."
The way Kore has been presented, there is no way he would let her live, for any reason.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by gharp » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:48 pm

Xavier78 wrote:
Eaglem wrote:So thinking about the prophecy and Kins leash... Is it possible Kore would use it to make Kin a tool to kill any other "monsters?" If so, thinking about the prophecy that Forgath goes to kill kin to save/release her from this fate and it's something Minmax couldn't handle Thus "friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate."
The way Kore has been presented, there is no way he would let her live, for any reason.
Sounds plausible - Kore fights & kills Kin, brings her back with his resurrection pills so she's bound to either answer questions, or complete one task... and the one task she's given to fulfill is to lead Kore to the goblins.

(Or maybe the task is to hunt Forgath? Not sure which would fit the prophecy more closely)

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Morgaln » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:47 am

gharp wrote:
Xavier78 wrote:
Eaglem wrote:So thinking about the prophecy and Kins leash... Is it possible Kore would use it to make Kin a tool to kill any other "monsters?" If so, thinking about the prophecy that Forgath goes to kill kin to save/release her from this fate and it's something Minmax couldn't handle Thus "friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate."
The way Kore has been presented, there is no way he would let her live, for any reason.
Sounds plausible - Kore fights & kills Kin, brings her back with his resurrection pills so she's bound to either answer questions, or complete one task... and the one task she's given to fulfill is to lead Kore to the goblins.

(Or maybe the task is to hunt Forgath? Not sure which would fit the prophecy more closely)
That doesn't sound plausible to me. There's no reason for Kore to even suspect Kin knows the goblins or Forgath, or that she would have a better chance of finding them than he does. The only way this would make sense is if he learned that she "sees" Minmax, and I doubt she'll tell him about that in the short window between them meeting and him identifying her as a monster.

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by SylvanDragoon » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:02 pm

My first thought upon reaching the end of this page roughly corresponds to panel 7 of this page

http://goblinscomic.com/comic/03222009

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Wolfie » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:31 am

@SylvanDragoon: I'd have to agree with you on that.
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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by Eaglem » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:47 am

Morgaln wrote:
Xavier78 wrote:
Eaglem wrote:So thinking about the prophecy and Kins leash... Is it possible Kore would use it to make Kin a tool to kill any other "monsters?" If so, thinking about the prophecy that Forgath goes to kill kin to save/release her from this fate and it's something Minmax couldn't handle Thus "friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate."
The way Kore has been presented, there is no way he would let her live, for any reason.
That doesn't sound plausible to me. There's no reason for Kore to even suspect Kin knows the goblins or Forgath, or that she would have a better chance of finding them than he does. The only way this would make sense is if he learned that she "sees" Minmax, and I doubt she'll tell him about that in the short window between them meeting and him identifying her as a monster.
The way I'm thinking on it. It doesn't matter if Kore knows anything about Kin and anyone. If he accidentally grabs it during the skirmish and she obeys he may just view her as a tool to do his work. This would be in line to his ideas on good and evil as to him it would seem a leash that makes "monsters" "good." In addition, it would give him reason to keep her alive to use her for her combat skills. This is similar to how Dellyn used her for... lets say, unsavory things, even though he tortured and mutilated other "monsters."

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Re: 29-01-2018: Who's There?

Post by BuildsLegos » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:56 pm

The main kink in your theory (aside from the bondage theme of the item) is that Thunt has specifically said that her new gauntlet is to ensure that nobody ever grabs that damn leash again. At the very least, they'd have to forcibly remove the gauntlet first; and that's assuming the leash is inside the gauntlet instead of transformed into it as some of us have speculated before.

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