3 April 2017 - Ignorance and Incredulity

[Wolfie]

Permalink: http://www.goblinscomic.org/04032017-2/

Awww, they confused MM again. Also, love the Wall of Knowledge.

[Sessine]

And...oh, poor Fumbles' wistful expression, as he hopes the bottle will save his friends without him having to go through the dangerous Teller ceremony. Note, though, that he's willing to do it, even though he might die. He's just... kind of hoping he won't have to.

That potion is really useful, though. I wonder what item they'll use it on. ...imagine if it's Senor Vorpal's moustache!

[miados]

And...oh, poor Fumbles' wistful expression, as he hopes the bottle will save his friends without him having to go through the dangerous Teller ceremony. Note, though, that he's willing to do it, even though he might die. He's just... kind of hoping he won't have to.

That potion is really useful, though. I wonder what item they'll use it on. ...imagine if it's Senor Vorpal's moustache!

I could picture that happening and freaking some people out, but since its just hair tied together would it really count as an items since it could easily be made to fall apart if untied? then would each hair give the benifit?

[Guus]

An infodump that gets us somewhere, awesome

[Sessine]

I could picture that happening and freaking some people out, but since its just hair tied together would it really count as an items since it could easily be made to fall apart if untied? then would each hair give the benefit?

It's lasted this long without falling apart, though. Once it's enchanted, it would have the usual magic-item protection against normal wear and tear, and probably couldn't easily be disassembled.

What I like about it is the visual of Senor Vorpal Kickasso, levitating, with a flaming moustache.

[MinesData]

I want to see Minmax stick Oblivious in the wall (and think it would be kinda in character for him). I suspect it would lead to the equivalent of a 404 error (and probably breaking the wall).

Sticking the Axe within the wall might be an interesting solution to all hell breaking loose. I other options fail.

Vorpal's staff and Minmax's armour might also be useful to identify as we know some properties but overall we don't full their full potential and this wall seems to better better than trial and error with the rest of the party standing well back.

If the Teller ritual causes pain anyway, the cloak could be a way of making Vorpal more powerful than we could possibly imagine without risking his life. I doubt we're going to go this route but I imagine a bunch of players might try that option. Plus with Vorpal's background it might not exactly be wise to try "We tie the cloak to Vorpal and proceed with the ritual".

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but the ring seems like the perfect opportunity to deal with Kore. All you need is someone to act as bait (wearing the cloak?) and let Kore's single mindedness let him walk into the trap. "Thunk Thunk Thunk", "You'll never kill me as long as I wear this cloak" and watch Kore move into melee. Minmax's move speed (and strength to help against grapples) would seem to make him the prime candidate for the role of bait (Although letting the paladin heroically sacrificing themselves is also an option if the Paladin Code makes him insist). His association with goblins is enough to ping him evil on the Kore-dar.

Pretty sure if I was in a PC group faced with Kore, I'd place the opened ring in a doorway with one party member at the end of the hallway armed with the cloak and a tanglefoot bag.

[Muertog]

Question: Why not stick the Axe of Prissan into the ring-dimension for holding. At the very least, it is another dimension of buffer in order to avoid corrupting the home dimension...

[Muertog]

Also, if Vorpal Kickass'o is 1/11th of all character types, a few of those have healing properties. Did he forget those?

http://www.goblinscomic.org/09022005/

[Xavier78]

Also, if Vorpal Kickass'o is 1/11th of all character types, a few of those have healing properties. Did he forget those?

http://www.goblinscomic.org/09022005/

Don't quote me but I think he isn't high enough level for it to matter. I think someone might have calculated what level he'd have to reach to heal anyone but I could be mistaken.

[Morgaln]

Also, if Vorpal Kickass'o is 1/11th of all character types, a few of those have healing properties. Did he forget those?

http://www.goblinscomic.org/09022005/

Don't quote me but I think he isn't high enough level for it to matter. I think someone might have calculated what level he'd have to reach to heal anyone but I could be mistaken.

Ah no, we don't know that, that comic doesn't have the same level requirements as the game does. Otherwise, Ears wouldn't have been able to cast most of the things he did. So while that might be the reason, we can't know for sure.

[WearsHats]

No one knows how Fumbles works. He's sort of like Minmax in that his character sheet does things it should in no way be able to do. It's even explicitly pointed out when he first says he's multiclassed across all classes that it should not be possible. I think they just had the same DM, and Herbert (by Thunt's own description) is a very bad DM who plays fast and loose with the rules as he sees fit.

Thing is, Fumbles was stuck in the Brassmoon dungeon for a while and I think he missed some XP from that compared to the rest of the GAP. Ears is slightly ahead of them because he just leveled up while talking to Al Dente.

So... it's possible Fumbles has some healing cantrips or a couple of HP worth of Lay On Hands, but it's also entirely possible he won't have any of that stuff until he's gained a huge amount of XP. In any case, I wouldn't expect it to be much at all.

I'm not sure what would happen if the Axe was put in the ring room. Its reality-warping magic might cause some serious problems in that little pocket universe. The whole thing might just get sucked into Hell almost instantly. Or crack apart. It seems risky. Letting go of Oblivious might work, if they're fast enough. I don't think they can attach it to the sword, but they might be able to throw the axe through the time hole. Except that Minmax has no clue how Oblivious works and the GAP have only seen him draw it once with no explanation.

[GathersIngredients]

Letting go of Oblivious might work, if they're fast enough. I don't think they can attach it to the sword, but they might be able to throw the axe through the time hole. Except that Minmax has no clue how Oblivious works and the GAP have only seen him draw it once with no explanation.

I miss Kin. And she would most likely be able to figure something out. Or at least she could try and explain Oblivious again. ^^

[Krulle]

I did the transcription and noticed something, that also popped up on twitter by Thunt himself.

Transription:

► Show Spoiler

Complains of Names: Ears, this is the pain cloak. It basically blocks all damage, but it hurts the wearer. So we can't really wear it, but maybe we can wrap it around the Axe of Prissan.
Big Ears: Oh. Yeah, good idea.
Hitpoints Big Ears: -9

Complains of Names: Listen up, everyone. I think we should hold the teller ceremony in front of the giant door, here. We want good visibility and we want it up against a wall. With the exception of the Human, we all know how dangerous this is.

Complains of Names: I guess we could hold the ceremony in one of these corners, but...
Wall of Knowledge: The Tumbleblade
Wall of Knowledge: Each time the wielder performs a successful tumble check during combat, This blade gains a +1 bonus for the duration of that combat. this bonus can stack up to a total of +12.

Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Whoa! The wall identifies other items too?!
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Maybe the wall will tell me if whatever's in this bottle, can heal Thaco and Big Ears.
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

Complains of Names: I had no idea that this short sword was so powerful.
Wall of Knowledge: Item Enchanter: Leviate
Wall of Knowledge: This single use potion can permanently enchant an item, causing that item to grant limited bursts of `levitation┬┤ to any individual in contact with it. This potion is meant to be poured onto a wearable item like a rind, so that it can be easily kept in contact with the individual. While levitating, the enchanted item will ignite into magical flames that don't radiate any hear.
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Hmmm.

Minmax: So what's dangerous about this ceremony? Don't they just give you a title or pin a badge on you or something?
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Oh no. It's really dangerous. See the more energy I absorb, the more powerful I am, but the greater the chance that the energy will destroy me as I merge with it. Goblins die during the ceremony all the time.

-

Minmax: How have you creatures not been wiped out?

sneak peek of panel 1, some info regarding the last panel: 1, 2, 3 (referring to page of 22 Dec. 2006)

► Show Spoiler

It only took ten and a half years to bring this line around, full circle. Funny, my notes don't mention that it'd take that long.

(referring to page of 22 Dec. 2006)

The Complains panel from 2006 is supposed to be drawn, so that if you line the two panels up, they look like they're talking to each other.

Complains' eyes however, are looking a bit too far upwards. I think I hadn't yet figured out exactly how much taller, Minmax is.

Back to discussion:

This page leaves some questions open to me:
- Why does Complains seem to be able to touch the Axe of Prissan without further damaging this reality, nor advancing his own Demonship?
- Re. the "Wall of Knowledge": Is this ability of identifying a set-up for another trap? I.e., if you put in an item that has already been identified, will it keep this item for itself?
- Has Fumbles taken over the Vorpal Kickass'o identity even when not wearing the moustache? (This q already appeared the last few pages, just didn't formulate it yet.)
- Re. Fumbles' comment "Goblins die during this ceremony all the time" and Thaco's comment "We all know how dangerous this is.": I thought Young-And-Beautiful was so old, that she named most of the Goblins present. Possibly only Thaco has not been named by her. So she was a teller before any of them besides Thaco could have witnessed a teller ceremony. How do they know how it works, what take care of (like standing close to a wall, as far open space as possible,...), that it IS dangerous, ...? I have some explanations, but all get dismissed again by other details disclosed in the comic....
Possibly they do not really know, and have only been told in bed-time/campfire stories or the like. Or to appreciate Y&B more. (If it is dangerous, why would we designate a new one and bereft Y&B of being of any use to the clan.)
- Re. the item enchanter: leviate: the flames do not give off heat, but that does not say anything about the flames being non-damaging. They may impart magical damage. It may not be wise to pour the potion over a surface that will be in direct contact with the skin of the wearer. How will this play out? And where and when did Fumbles collect this phial?

[WearsHats]

► Show Spoiler

It only took ten and a half years to bring this line around, full circle. Funny, my notes don't mention that it'd take that long.

(referring to page of 22 Dec. 2006)

The Complains panel from 2006 is supposed to be drawn, so that if you line the two panels up, they look like they're talking to each other.

Complains' eyes however, are looking a bit too far upwards. I think I hadn't yet figured out exactly how much taller, Minmax is.

Neat!

Back to discussion:

This page leaves some questions open to me:
- Why does Complains seem to be able to touch the Axe of Prissan without further damaging this reality, nor advancing his own Demonship?

Possibilities:

1. He's not demon enough for that to be an issue.
2. The two magics don't interact that way.
3. He didn't touch the axe directly, but instead picked up the cloak first and wrapped it around the axe.

- Re. the "Wall of Knowledge": Is this ability of identifying a set-up for another trap? I.e., if you put in an item that has already been identified, will it keep this item for itself?

Possible, I suppose. But I see no particular reason to believe that. And I suspect someone is wearing a ring or something that's already gone through the wall when they were grabbing stuff out of it.

- Has Fumbles taken over the Vorpal Kickass'o identity even when not wearing the moustache? (This q already appeared the last few pages, just didn't formulate it yet.)

A few pages back, there was a joke cut out of the script (for the sake of trying to condense the page a bit) wherein Fumbles pulled off the mustache and revealed his in no way secret identity. It seems likely he's sort of moving past that.

- Re. Fumbles' comment "Goblins die during this ceremony all the time" and Thaco's comment "We all know how dangerous this is.": I thought Young-And-Beautiful was so old, that she named most of the Goblins present. Possibly only Thaco has not been named by her. So she was a teller before any of them besides Thaco could have witnessed a teller ceremony. How do they know how it works, what take care of (like standing close to a wall, as far open space as possible,...), that it IS dangerous, ...? I have some explanations, but all get dismissed again by other details disclosed in the comic....
Possibly they do not really know, and have only been told in bed-time/campfire stories or the like. Or to appreciate Y&B more. (If it is dangerous, why would we designate a new one and bereft Y&B of being of any use to the clan.)

Clan lore. None of them have witnessed it, but they're familiar with the mechanics of it because that's part of what younglings learn in the goblin equivalent of high school. They're trained as younglings in the clan's real home before being sent out as warriors to the war camp.

- Re. the item enchanter: leviate: the flames do not give off heat, but that does not say anything about the flames being non-damaging. They may impart magical damage. It may not be wise to pour the potion over a surface that will be in direct contact with the skin of the wearer. How will this play out? And where and when did Fumbles collect this phial?

Fumbles found the staff (with the vial attached) outside the vine room early in this dungeon.

If the item description says it's specifically intended to be used on a ring and that the item only levitates someone who is in contact with it, then I think it's probably fair to assume the flames don't damage the wearer. Whether they do anything other than put on a light show without heat is not clear, though. It could just sort of be that the flames are effectively the item's IME. Or they could damage someone who is not the wearer. Time will tell, I suppose. But I'm not really sure where levitation comes into things. Why would they need to float?

[LAYF]

Oblivious in the wall, I think would be a bad idea.
As it is (as far as I remember) powered by its users lack of understanding it.
If it gets fully explained it would be worthless (if minmax understand anything that is.)
I'm.just wondering, would it return to being the "sword that only takes up things that empowers it"?

[Krulle]

Back to discussion:

This page leaves some questions open to me:
- Why does Complains seem to be able to touch the Axe of Prissan without further damaging this reality, nor advancing his own Demonship?

Possibilities:

1. He's not demon enough for that to be an issue.
2. The two magics don't interact that way.
3. He didn't touch the axe directly, but instead picked up the cloak first and wrapped it around the axe.

here Complains touching the Axe seemed to have caused sufficient instability for Al Dente to appear.

From current panel 1 I am not so sure that he's NOT touching the Axe. May be.

- Re. the "Wall of Knowledge": Is this ability of identifying a set-up for another trap? I.e., if you put in an item that has already been identified, will it keep this item for itself?

Possible, I suppose. But I see no particular reason to believe that. And I suspect someone is wearing a ring or something that's already gone through the wall when they were grabbing stuff out of it.

Good point. But we also saw no explanation appearing. Did Minmax even push anything through the Wall of Knowledge, or only on the Wall of Items?

- Has Fumbles taken over the Vorpal Kickass'o identity even when not wearing the moustache? (This q already appeared the last few pages, just didn't formulate it yet.)

A few pages back, there was a joke cut out of the script (for the sake of trying to condense the page a bit) wherein Fumbles pulled off the mustache and revealed his in no way secret identity. It seems likely he's sort of moving past that.

Ah, thank You.

- Re. the item enchanter: leviate: the flames do not give off heat, but that does not say anything about the flames being non-damaging. They may impart magical damage. It may not be wise to pour the potion over a surface that will be in direct contact with the skin of the wearer. How will this play out? And where and when did Fumbles collect this phial?

Fumbles found the staff (with the vial attached) outside the vine room early in this dungeon.

If the item description says it's specifically intended to be used on a ring and that the item only levitates someone who is in contact with it, then I think it's probably fair to assume the flames don't damage the wearer. Whether they do anything other than put on a light show without heat is not clear, though. It could just sort of be that the flames are effectively the item's IME. Or they could damage someone who is not the wearer. Time will tell, I suppose. But I'm not really sure where levitation comes into things. Why would they need to float?

Thank you for the finding place.
And no, the Wall of Knowledge just states "an item [...] like a ring". It could be poured on armour, shirt, glasses, helmet, swords, ... The levitating benefit only comes if you touch the item. Just possessing the item will not be sufficient to levitate, you need to touch the enchanted item.

Those questions just rose to my mind and I wanted to write them down.

[Morgaln]

I did the transcription and noticed something, that also popped up on twitter by Thunt himself.

Transription:

► Show Spoiler

Complains of Names: Ears, this is the pain cloak. It basically blocks all damage, but it hurts the wearer. So we can't really wear it, but maybe we can wrap it around the Axe of Prissan.
Big Ears: Oh. Yeah, good idea.
Hitpoints Big Ears: -9

Complains of Names: Listen up, everyone. I think we should hold the teller ceremony in front of the giant door, here. We want good visibility and we want it up against a wall. With the exception of the Human, we all know how dangerous this is.

Complains of Names: I guess we could hold the ceremony in one of these corners, but...
Wall of Knowledge: The Tumbleblade
Wall of Knowledge: Each time the wielder performs a successful tumble check during combat, This blade gains a +1 bonus for the duration of that combat. this bonus can stack up to a total of +12.

Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Whoa! The wall identifies other items too?!
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Maybe the wall will tell me if whatever's in this bottle, can heal Thaco and Big Ears.
Forehead Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Monster

Complains of Names: I had no idea that this short sword was so powerful.
Wall of Knowledge: Item Enchanter: Leviate
Wall of Knowledge: This single use potion can permanently enchant an item, causing that item to grant limited bursts of `levitation┬┤ to any individual in contact with it. This potion is meant to be poured onto a wearable item like a rind, so that it can be easily kept in contact with the individual. While levitating, the enchanted item will ignite into magical flames that don't radiate any hear.
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Hmmm.

Minmax: So what's dangerous about this ceremony? Don't they just give you a title or pin a badge on you or something?
Fumbles (Senor Vorpal Kickass'o): Oh no. It's really dangerous. See the more energy I absorb, the more powerful I am, but the greater the chance that the energy will destroy me as I merge with it. Goblins die during the ceremony all the time.

-

Minmax: How have you creatures not been wiped out?

sneak peek of panel 1, some info regarding the last panel: 1, 2, 3 (referring to page of 22 Dec. 2006)

► Show Spoiler

It only took ten and a half years to bring this line around, full circle. Funny, my notes don't mention that it'd take that long.

(referring to page of 22 Dec. 2006)

The Complains panel from 2006 is supposed to be drawn, so that if you line the two panels up, they look like they're talking to each other.

Complains' eyes however, are looking a bit too far upwards. I think I hadn't yet figured out exactly how much taller, Minmax is.

Back to discussion:

This page leaves some questions open to me:
- Why does Complains seem to be able to touch the Axe of Prissan without further damaging this reality, nor advancing his own Demonship?
- Re. the "Wall of Knowledge": Is this ability of identifying a set-up for another trap? I.e., if you put in an item that has already been identified, will it keep this item for itself?
- Has Fumbles taken over the Vorpal Kickass'o identity even when not wearing the moustache? (This q already appeared the last few pages, just didn't formulate it yet.)
- Re. Fumbles' comment "Goblins die during this ceremony all the time" and Thaco's comment "We all know how dangerous this is.": I thought Young-And-Beautiful was so old, that she named most of the Goblins present. Possibly only Thaco has not been named by her. So she was a teller before any of them besides Thaco could have witnessed a teller ceremony. How do they know how it works, what take care of (like standing close to a wall, as far open space as possible,...), that it IS dangerous, ...? I have some explanations, but all get dismissed again by other details disclosed in the comic....
Possibly they do not really know, and have only been told in bed-time/campfire stories or the like. Or to appreciate Y&B more. (If it is dangerous, why would we designate a new one and bereft Y&B of being of any use to the clan.)
- Re. the item enchanter: leviate: the flames do not give off heat, but that does not say anything about the flames being non-damaging. They may impart magical damage. It may not be wise to pour the potion over a surface that will be in direct contact with the skin of the wearer. How will this play out? And where and when did Fumbles collect this phial?

Maybe Young & Beautiful actually was young, but the teller ceremony was so stressful that she looked as old as she did? The comic never said it was her who named Chief (although since that nameless fortune teller is always referred to as "her" it is implied), so she might not have been teller at that time.

Back to discussion:

This page leaves some questions open to me:
- Why does Complains seem to be able to touch the Axe of Prissan without further damaging this reality, nor advancing his own Demonship?

Possibilities:

1. He's not demon enough for that to be an issue.
2. The two magics don't interact that way.
3. He didn't touch the axe directly, but instead picked up the cloak first and wrapped it around the axe.

Number 1 has been an issue every time Complains touched the axe ever since it broke, so I think number 3 is correct.

- Has Fumbles taken over the Vorpal Kickass'o identity even when not wearing the moustache? (This q already appeared the last few pages, just didn't formulate it yet.)

A few pages back, there was a joke cut out of the script (for the sake of trying to condense the page a bit) wherein Fumbles pulled off the mustache and revealed his in no way secret identity. It seems likely he's sort of moving past that.

The joke wouldn't have worked anyway, because Fumbles has repeatedly told the other goblins that he is Senor Vorpal Kickasso

[SirButcher]

But I'm not really sure where levitation comes into things. Why would they need to float?

Well, Big Ears have to get down into the Pit of Hell, and Complains said they need to find a way to survive the huge drop - then suddenly they found an item which can cause someone to levitate. I think they will use it to get down to the pit.

[GathersIngredients]

or, if they went back to the "dooooooor" golem's vertical corridor, they could possibly float out of Kore's reach. I think I remember that they can't go back for some reason, though the reason eludes me at the moment.

[Morgaln]

Huh, here's a good question that popped up somewhere else just now. Minmax is reaching through the wall of identify here, when handing Complains the pearl. He's wearing the gauntlet that is part of his magical armor, but it didn't get identified. Why is that? Everything else got identified when he reached through.

[ForgetsOldName]

- Re. Fumbles' comment "Goblins die during this ceremony all the time" and Thaco's comment "We all know how dangerous this is.": I thought Young-And-Beautiful was so old, that she named most of the Goblins present. Possibly only Thaco has not been named by her. So she was a teller before any of them besides Thaco could have witnessed a teller ceremony. How do they know how it works, what take care of (like standing close to a wall, as far open space as possible,...), that it IS dangerous, ...? I have some explanations, but all get dismissed again by other details disclosed in the comic....
Possibly they do not really know, and have only been told in bed-time/campfire stories or the like. Or to appreciate Y&B more. (If it is dangerous, why would we designate a new one and bereft Y&B of being of any use to the clan.)

Clan lore. None of them have witnessed it, but they're familiar with the mechanics of it because that's part of what younglings learn in the goblin equivalent of high school. They're trained as younglings in the clan's real home before being sent out as warriors to the war camp.

Do we know that a teller's tenure always ends with death? Maybe Young & Beautiful wanted to retire early but the replacements didn't last.

[Muertog]

So both Big Ears and MinMax have touched the wall (pre-explosion) while wearing their magical armor (which should include the gauntlets) for no effect:
http://www.goblinscomic.org/12132016-2/

Which means that post-explosion the wall works differently?

If the wall was a trap, I wonder when it resets. And if the items pulled from it are returned or new replacements appear.

[Guus]

@Morgaln and Muertog: I'd guess an oversight, maybe Hunt will retro-actively change it if someone lets him know. Similar things happened in the past. I don't see why the wall would suddenly change due to a magic item that happened to be in it. Unless they are bound somehow.

[Belzera]

Or maybe the wall doesn't identify items being worn? After all Minmax is in the armour and isn't Big Ears armour created by the A.o.P itself? Or heck maybe it needs a major component of the magical item to be inserted into the wall for the item to be indentified [IE The chestplate of Minmaxs' armour, the A.o.P for Big Ears armour]

Also regarding the issue with Complains holding the A.o.P and his demonic status, remember he grabbed the ORB of the A.o.P which I always thought was the magical core of the item and his demonic nature clasping it being the final straw of the seals designed demise.

[ArvoKatsuya]

Hello. Always been lurking for several years and on the old forums I was Tharg.

Registered to predict possible interaction between Tumbleblade, A Fumbles, and the Levitation enchant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4n73jYSM2A