Do the characters feel pain?

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BiggestBlackest
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Do the characters feel pain?

Post by BiggestBlackest » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:01 am

It seems like they do while they are receiving injuries, but on the current page (http://www.goblinscomic.org/03202017-2/) there's no indication, and no one seems inclined to heal anyone for the sake of alleviating suffering, despite the fact that many of them are in negative HP.

Also, can you even change gear when you're that near death? I guess inventory management might be a free action.

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ForgetsOldName
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by ForgetsOldName » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:10 am

One of the long standing criticisms of DnD is that a character at one hit point fights just as well as when they're at 101 hit points. I think the official explanation is that the deities give heroes an extra boost. So characters must not experience pain the way you and I do.

For roleplaying reasons characters must feel pain.
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BiggestBlackest
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by BiggestBlackest » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:34 am

I'm referring to the characters in Goblins. Specifically the goblins.

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Guus
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by Guus » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:46 am

In D&D, HP is not necessarily life points. It is an abstract concept of differing conditions. It'd also suck pretty bad if you cannot do anything while low on HP, because no one likes to fail their actions, and a consistently higher fail rate once you are on low HP would take a lot of fun away from the game, so yes, it comes down to roleplay.

Honestly, I think that the goblins in the comic only feel pain when it serves a function for Hunt's story. They should obviously be hurt right now (and unable to talk not to mention), but they should also be unconcious, which they clearly aren't. So yes, I do think they feel pain, but no, I don't think there is any consistency in when they do or don't.
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BiggestBlackest
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by BiggestBlackest » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:04 am

Guus wrote:
I do think they feel pain, but no, I don't think there is any consistency in when they do or don't.
Doesn't that seem like a problem? This page seems pretty jarring given both the urgency and affect the characters were presenting since the big explosion.

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Guus
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by Guus » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:18 am

Yes, to me it does. To others it might not. It's very game-like, but that doesn't always translate well to a story in my opinion. It might be a good question to ask Hunt himself on Twitter though, and see what explanation he has. Who knows, he might have an explanation that I haven't thought of ;)
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ForgetsOldName
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by ForgetsOldName » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Guus wrote:In D&D, HP is not necessarily life points. It is an abstract concept of differing conditions. It'd also suck pretty bad if you cannot do anything while low on HP, because no one likes to fail their actions, and a consistently higher fail rate once you are on low HP would take a lot of fun away from the game, so yes, it comes down to roleplay.

Honestly, I think that the goblins in the comic only feel pain when it serves a function for Hunt's story. They should obviously be hurt right now (and unable to talk not to mention), but they should also be unconcious, which they clearly aren't. So yes, I do think they feel pain, but no, I don't think there is any consistency in when they do or don't.
Actually many gamers do not think it sucks to have more realistic representations of pain and injury, and the number of times D&D has changed this and the number of times players have written variants reflects that. Just about every alternative game I've played uses a better damage system as their starting point and they are often quite proud of it.

The comic makes a point of playing off of the absurdities in D&D, and this one was called out a long time ago:

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BiggestBlackest
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by BiggestBlackest » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:25 pm

My question isn't about 'characters (especially PCs) functioning in negative HP' it's about the goblins feeling pain, which they did, and then stopped doing, between this page and the last.

And I think at this point it's not a question as much as a criticism: boy, it sure is hard to care about these main characters when they stop feeling things in between panels.

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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by Puschkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:50 pm

I also thought it was weird that everbody was shrugging it off so easily and even quabbling like usual while discussing how to heal each other.

If they don't feel pain, then how can torture be a thing in Goblins? It's probably like someone else said: They feel pain when the story requires it (hence, when the GM insist on it or the players feel like playing it out).

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Krulle
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by Krulle » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:35 pm

Not rreally interested in this discussion, but saw some tweets:
@AnAustinCampion wrote:@Thunt_Goblins question for you - do the goblins feel pain? If so, when? Latest page is a bit jarring.
@[color=red]Thunt[/color]_Goblins wrote:The comic establishes early on that no one follows the "rules" and they all talk while bleeding to death. They're supposed to be unconscious
@AnAustinCampion wrote:@Thunt_Goblins so when they make faces and groans, that's just pretend? They could keep talking and doing things if they wanted?
@[color=red]Thunt[/color]_Goblins wrote:Sword to the chest, etc = Ouchiness
Knocked into -HP = Ouchiness
Waiting around at a stabilized -9 = Complaining, ranting or idle chit chat
@AnAustinCampion wrote:@Thunt_Goblins So it's the process of LOSING health or being damaged that causes pain, not HAVING injuries. Thanks for the clarification.
@[color=red]Thunt[/color]_Goblins wrote:Well they're still in pain, they're just not showing it much at that time. If they were to try to move, they'd show it again.
@[color=red]Thunt[/color]_Goblins wrote:It's 1 of those things you just need to accept about the world. Like how you have to accept, ppl in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon can float.
parallel discussion:
@Thunt wrote:@Shotdown1027 @anaustincampion I actually think that working out the logic of the world is part of the fun. I do it with other stories. :)
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GathersIngredients
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Re: Do the characters feel pain?

Post by GathersIngredients » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:52 am

It's exactly what players do. If you get an RP group (be it D6D or other systems), and their group would get in a situation like that, they would take it seriously (and probably RP the pain) until the moment when everyone is stabilized (= no more immediate threat present of someone dying). And within the next 10 seconds or so, they would start arguing about a) how to resolve the situation (= who can be made teller, so they can heal the others), b) how to split the loot (hey, I'm down, but I'm not out, don't you dare overlook me when handing out stuff!) c) any number of things, maybe the last movie they saw, whether or not there are any potato chips left, if anyone else wants to order pizza...

Thunt has been known to mimic these things in the comic, making light fun about the RP "scene" that way. And since the goblins are the "players" of their own characters, they act similar, I would imagine.
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