December 24, 2015: For given values of Okay

Aegis J Hyena · Post by **Aegis J Hyena** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:56 am

http://www.goblinscomic.org/12232015-2/

Minmax, quit whining at the goblins, they're the only ones keeping you alive.

(and I'm sure they think that job sucks...)

Simon · Post by **Simon** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:20 am

Aww. It's understandable for them to be wary of Minmax, but I hope they become (if not exactly friends) at least not enemies. Hopefully Complains and Minmax decide not to try and kill each other.

Also, is Minmax a bit 'honourable' or something? I'm sure when he met Kin, he had the opportunity to kill her while she slept. He had a similar chance here, but didn't take it. Just thought it was a bit interesting.

Morgaln · Post by **Morgaln** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:37 am

Did they seriously crash down for several hours of sleep while being hunted by a murderous paladin bent on their destruction? And the reason they put up a watch is not him but Minmax? I hope someone comes along and kills them all, because at this point they deserve everything terrible happening to them for their stupidity.

Sessine · Post by **Sessine** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:33 am

You do have a point; Kore could show up at any moment. They may not have known before this room that there are lots of ways into this dungeon, though apparently Forgath could have told them -- it turns out those shafts of light are coming from holes in the ceiling. We can't see it from our angle, but they can look up and see sky. (from the live broadcast)

Well. Can't fault them for needing to sleep. They did set a watch. And, you know... Complains was probably just messing with Minmax.

Arch Lich Burns · Post by **Arch Lich Burns** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:05 am

Er, why did three rooms takecmultiple hours? It should have taken an hour tops to finish the rooms and it was around noon when they went in the dungeon. It feels like a wast of time.

Xavier78 · Post by **Xavier78** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:22 pm

Arch Lich Burns wrote:Er, why did three rooms takecmultiple hours? It should have taken an hour tops to finish the rooms and it was around noon when they went in the dungeon. It feels like a wast of time.

Good question. Also, that was super underwhelming and the entire page just seems... off. I'm not sure why. Perhaps because nothing happened. No tension, no continuation of the story, not even a joke.

SamWiser · Post by **SamWiser** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:47 pm

Maybe I'm reading into things, but the looks of (especially Big Ears and Thaco) don't seem to be what you would expect from a rant like this. My guess is that the main point of this page is to finally let the Goblins know about Kin, so they can mention that they know her too.

Post by **RocketScientist** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:46 pm

They already saw Kin in the pillar, when Minmax said he is in love with her. They haven't had much of a conversation about her, though.

Guus · Post by **Guus** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:11 pm

It is to mention that he isn't best buddies with the Goblins yet though. All is not good in this group, and that is good. A bit redundant though.

thinkslogically · Post by **thinkslogically** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:42 pm

Arch Lich Burns wrote:Er, why did three rooms takecmultiple hours? It should have taken an hour tops to finish the rooms and it was around noon when they went in the dungeon. It feels like a wast of time.

But it hasn't just been 3 rooms... They crossed that river (bulls strength), lost their chief, battled Kore, solved the entrance puzzle and THEN did 3 rooms. If they didn't need an extended rest after all that, then they're better at this game than me.

BuildsLegos · Post by **BuildsLegos** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:44 pm

Besides, did you SEE the size of this room? They're probably half-way through it.

Post by **Thunt** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:28 pm

Morgaln wrote:Did they seriously crash down for several hours of sleep while being hunted by a murderous paladin bent on their destruction? And the reason they put up a watch is not him but Minmax? I hope someone comes along and kills them all, because at this point they deserve everything terrible happening to them for their stupidity.

None of them have any reason to believe that Kore can find them. Forgath is the only one who knows lots about this dungeon crawl. So I don't see how it's stupid to not react like Kore is on their heels.

Arch Lich Burns wrote:Er, why did three rooms takecmultiple hours? It should have taken an hour tops to finish the rooms and it was around noon when they went in the dungeon. It feels like a wast of time.

It was around noon? Really? Nothing in the comic says how much time passed between escaping Brassmoon and encountering Kore. Not sure where you're getting "noon" from. And before someone says "The lighting suggests...", I always use that simplified shading unless there's an extreme light source in the scene.

Xavier78 wrote:Good question. Also, that was super underwhelming and the entire page just seems... off. I'm not sure why. Perhaps because nothing happened. No tension, no continuation of the story, not even a joke.

Nothing happened. Okay, here we go...

Panels 1 through 3: Establishing that it's the next morning and that the party got some sleep.
Panels 3 through 7: Showing that Complains is still not liking Minmax and still doesn't trust humans.
Panels 7 and 8: Showing that between the two characters, Complains is currently the one who trusts the other, less. This follows the character progression of both characters. Minmax has already gotten to know a monster, while Complains has not befriended any adventurers.
Panels 8 and 9: Minmax's reaction to Complains' lack of trust, widens the gap between him and... well, the G.A.P. (Goblin Adventuring Party).
Panel 9: The comic is echoing what (I hope) the readers are feeling, which is a sense of loss concerning the break up of Minmax/Forgath/Kin. Reminders about plot progression are important and over the past decade, I've gotten pretty experienced with having these reminders in the comic without most readers even knowing they're there.
Panels 10 through 12: Cementing what the story has suggested, but not confirmed as absolute fact. That Minmax has gotten ALL of the goblins' names wrong (if you count the fact that he's the only one who calls Complains "Names").
Panel 13: Shining more light on the relationship between Minmax and Fumbles.

All of this is important and all of it happens on one page. And it happens seamlessly enough that no one is complaining about info dumps or massive exposition.

And whether you find it funny or not, yes the end of the page has a joke. It's a simple comedic trope of using established character traits as humour (like Homer Simpson liking donuts or Capt. America not really 'getting' the 21st century). Minmax whines like a childish RPer who isn't too smart.

Kjeld · Post by **Kjeld** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:08 pm

It seems strange that all the goblins are stuffing their faces with the weird pink stuff growing on the ground...

Post by **RocketScientist** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:05 pm

It's yumyuck moss. Dwarves eat it. Young & Beautiful had some. Minmax has eaten it. http://www.goblinscomic.org/03102006/

Morgaln · Post by **Morgaln** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:45 am

Thunt wrote:
Morgaln wrote:Did they seriously crash down for several hours of sleep while being hunted by a murderous paladin bent on their destruction? And the reason they put up a watch is not him but Minmax? I hope someone comes along and kills them all, because at this point they deserve everything terrible happening to them for their stupidity.
None of them have any reason to believe that Kore can find them. Forgath is the only one who knows lots about this dungeon crawl. So I don't see how it's stupid to not react like Kore is on their heels.

Do they have any reason to believe that Kore can't find them? They've been through three rooms so far and we haven't seen a single branch on the way. If Kore goes into the dungeon, all he has to do is follow a straight line right to them. Even if there were branches we haven't been shown, he might still find the correct way through luck, skill or magic.
Is Kore unable to enter the dungeon crawl? If so, why? Even if he is, how do they know he isn't able to enter it? Maybe Kore knows more about this dungeon crawl than Forgath knows? The GAP cannot know whether he does or not. If he knows more than them, he might even be able to move through the dungeon more quickly than them. The GAP cannot know where Kore is and the possibility that he is in the dungeon and right on their heels is very real. He might even know where the exit of the dungeon is and make his way there around the mountain. The longer they dawdle, the greater the chance he'll arrive there before them.
Also, for them, Forgath was last seen losing the fight against Kore. Who has already proven to them that he will torture people to get what he wants. Like, say, information about the dungeon crawl they just entered. So Forgath knowing a lot about the dungeon is a danger to the GAP more than anything else at this point.

If they ignore all of the above or don't even consider it on the assumption that just entering the dungeon somehow makes them impossible to find, yes, they are stupid and deserve everything that will happen to them because of their stupidity.

SuperVaderMan · Post by **SuperVaderMan** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:31 am

Thunt wrote:None of them have any reason to believe that Kore can find them. Forgath is the only one who knows lots about this dungeon crawl. So I don't see how it's stupid to not react like Kore is on their heels.

For the past however-many pages, people have been wondering why no one seemed to care about Kore anymore. Forgath didn't seem at all concerned that either Kore was hunting down his best friend or was off to murder everyone in his clan for being 'tainted', and the GAP didn't seem at all concerned that Kore could've been right on their heels if he somehow made it into the dungeon. There was a lot of opportunity there for dramatic tension and hard character choices, like Forgath choosing to either save his friend or run off to warn his clan about Kore.

Instead of this obvious and logical progression to the story, though, we're left with very little. Minmax and the GAP are continuing on almost like nothing happened, and Forgath seems like he's about to go off on a completely unrelated quest with 3 strangers. All of this without any of the characters so much as acknowledging the whole Kore situation.

It's disappointing to see this narrative potential be dropped like this for no substantial reason (or is it that the potential was never recognized?). We should've been on the edge of our seats this whole time wondering what either group is going to do about Kore, how they're going to escape in time, etc. Instead we got several infodumps from rabbit girl and Minmax 2.0 and a few lame (imo) jokes here and there from both parties.

illocust · Post by **illocust** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:18 am

I wonder if Fumbles got excused from the watch. He's pretty friendly with MinMax, and I could see letting him skip due to worry he might get tricked.

Also, considering he's just recently become verbal again, it might be nice not to expect any kind of responsibility from him for at least a week.

JustRight · Post by **JustRight** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:53 am

Could be our heroes are simply exhausted and suffering from PTSD a bit - their minds and bodies will take advantage of a lull in the terror of Kore to detox by trying not to think about it for a while...seems natural.

Post by **RocketScientist** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:35 pm

So are MinGAP assuming that Kore can't also open the dungeon door? Is there any reason for them to believe this? I haven't seen any other obstacles to Kore following them.

Arch Lich Burns · Post by **Arch Lich Burns** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:39 pm

So we are expected to know what time of day it is Without referring to the light in the background? Even if said light is outside?

Even prior to MoM, there was beight lighint indicating early day/afternoon and since MoM takes zero time to compleate it would be reasonable to assume it was the same time as when min max came out. True, we don't know how long the escape was but we do know how much time mom yook because you told us in comic. Amd simce there was no dramatic moment prior to mom it is most likely to be neutral in terms of lighting, and hence they entered the crawl of dragon's maw early afternoon at latest.

-------
And i am not quite sure what part of the story this page moves. It seems very stagnant as to what is happening and minmax showsvery little emotion about loosing Kin or Forgoth.

Post by **RocketScientist** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:09 pm

According to this, lighting has little or nothing to do with the time of day. I guess. I dunno. It confuses me.

Xavier78 · Post by **Xavier78** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:35 pm

Thunt wrote:SNIP

Look, I may make you, or others mad and I don't mean too, honest, but all you've managed to do with this post is prove yet again that no one should dare question you. You didn't hide your spite very well. The venom behind that post is obvious. I know I'm not the only one who sees it. You really need to teach yourself to accept criticism. You aren't above all of us peons Hunt. You should be grateful that people question, hell, even complain. It shows that you still have folks who care enough to bother. Every single "complaint" has been valid and you just brush it off or get angry and scream how you are persecuted, or whatever. That is all I have to say on the matter. I will attempt to refrain from commenting on the Comic here again in the future. No promises though.

FailsWildly · Post by **FailsWildly** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:10 am

Gonna be that guy everyone finds annoying for a moment. Is it really that hard to accept that the reason Thunt comes off as venomous and spiteful really isn't 100% his fault? Considering how flat out rude and insulting people have been to him about his own creation? Because people don't agree with how he's written characters and because they get stupidly offended over it and project on it and completely ignores what he says what his actual intention was? I'd be pretty spiteful too if people accused me of supporting anti-feminism, rape culture, trivializing rape, misgendering someone and other things.

I mean, to be fair, it's his comic and his vision and he doesn't force anyone to read it. Sure, he gains revenue from his comic and I'm sure he's grateful for that, but that in no way entitles any of his readers to tell him how they want the story to be written or progressed. I've seen far more angry and entitled webcomic artists who demand and have come to expect their readers to give them money and shut the hell up about it. Thunt is actually quite nice for a guy who's been robbed, cheated, ridiculed and otherwise subjected to a lot of unfair criticism.

Now, yes, there is a lot of criticism that is well within merit and by all means do I mean people aren't allowed to question things or ask about plot holes and the like c but do it with respect. The way these things were worded came off very disrespectful and condescending to me, as if to insult Thunt's intelligence and ability as a storywriter. I'd be annoyed too if someone was like, "Yeah, this page has absolutely zero substance." or for previous pages, "Wow. These curses are juvenile and ill-thought out and shouldn't be here because I don't like them and therefor deem them worthless to a story I clearly know everything about because I'm the writer all the sudden." I know I'm being antagonistic here and I'll apologize for that, but I'm trying to make a point here as to attest to why Thunt is getting fed up with a majority of commenters. Try to see it from his point of view. He's doing something he enjoys and he just gets trashed on half the time. So cut him some slack here, I think he's allowed to be human and not a perfectly professional robot. The dude has stress in his life and I doubt we help much with it.

Likewise, if Thunt one day decided he was done with Goblins and just said sayonara and gave us no closure for the comic, sure, I'd be angry and disappointed, but if he can't cope with how some people are, then maybe it's better for him to just say peace out. Or disable the forums so he doesn't have to deal with the added stress of it all. I just hope he realizes that there's probably a lot of readers out there who don't participate in the forums and thoroughly enjoy his comic. Vocal minorities tend to give you very bad impressions of certain people. I've dealt with that before and boy did I ever hate a certain group of people for a VERY long time based on the interactions I had with 3 people I was forced to work with. It took time for me to stop being spiteful to that group of people in general because of a small vocal minority.

So if you read this Thunt, know this. I know people wear you down, I know your nerves are on edge and it's really upsetting to see what you view as harsh, unfair criticism to something you love and put a lot of effort into and it's very draining and discouraging to you. But know that there are people who understand why you snap at others sometimes and that you don't truly mean it. Humans are mean. I'm mean, you're mean, it's something that just happens naturally when a person feels like they need to defend themselves. I encourage you to take a deep breath and try and read into the tone of your text in the future if only so you don't have to deal with people saying you're overly sensitive and are overreacting. I know sometimes you see things that really get you flustered and you want to fire back and let those people know that they've made you feel insulted, I've been there. It usually results in me feeling satisfied for a whole 5 minutes until I start to feel like now I look like I was just itching for a fight. Even if I don't feel wrong for how I felt or for what I said, I feel wrong for how I said it, because now I get picked apart for it and it makes me even angrier for it. Don't feel bad for getting mad and don't feel bad for wanting to explain why you disagree with a comment someone made about something you know is wrong because you're the author. Don't even feel bad for overreacting! You're human. But! Do realize that a lot of people don't read into the deeper meaning or root cause of things and only take things for face value or the very shallow surface. I don't think you're a spiteful person I think you're just tired of being treated like you don't know your own story and characters.

But a little helpful criticism don't hurt nobody. We can help point out things if we think you've forgotten something and if you haven't forgotten and have shelved it for later or a future plot point? Just tell 'em! Nope, I haven't forgotten that, don't worry, it'll be addressed in due time.

ANYWAYS!

I think this was a very insightful page to Minmax and the goblins relationship and that it was conveyed well. Minmax clearly is more trusting towards the goblins than they are of him. Fumbles and Minmax have a potential future friendship! Even if Fumbles bit his angry purple worm, it says a lot for Minmax to just overlook that for the sake of their budding friendship. I think the goblins will grow to like Minmax and trust him. Also, even if I was worried about Kore, if I was exhausted I would rest. At least I'd be able to face him well rested versus being exhausted from trying to flee!

Post by **RocketScientist** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:23 am

I didn't get venom and spite out of his post. A bit of annoyance or frustration, maybe.

Krulle · Post by **Krulle** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:48 am

Thank You, FailsWildly. (btw, your name is not really suitable for this - and I am unfairly criticising)

Thunt, most of us simply enjoy, and while we may wish for a faster story pace, at least I do enjoy a bit of a break.
Most of us will wait how the story deploys before evaluating a scene.

Few people complain about LotR scenes in the book, where it's all about doing nothing and passing time.

The difference lies in the medium, and that you publish each page immediately.

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