Altiverse Goblins [blue screen of death]

[Arch Lich Burns]

No classes please. They don't make much sense in this game, nor looks like what he is going for. I much prefer a skill based game. There will still be stats to use, but not as important.


How about the better roleplay = more chance of success? Even if they bullshit it? (because hell I don't know how sciene work but I may try to science something )

[Godbot]

well, the other option there Gbot, is to have skills or better yet a class. And under that class are said skills that you can attempt and possibly succeed at, but then saying that everything which is cross class is next to impossible unless you roll a natural 20. The other thing though that is needed is a negative side.

I mentioned that there should always be a chance of failure in the third sentence of my post, and just treated it as implicit for the rest of the post instead of saying it over and over.

And a class system seems like exactly what SGTdude wants to avoid. It does differentiate the characters, but it also categorizes them very rigidly. I prefer systems that give you freedom to build your character for a certain role if you want to, but don't strictly enforce it.

That said, if you mean a class system as in a "package" of skills, rather than something that defines your character, that could be interesting. (e.g. a Medic or Doctor class could emphasize skills related to healing allies and diagnosing diseases, and maybe give small bonuses to partially related things like looking up information, noticing small details and preparing food that's safe to eat.)

[BadgeAddict]

I am sorry for confusing myself and/or others. Yes, I meant class system to mean a package of skills. This determines what people are good at instead of allowing a free-form style of picking your own skills. Here is why i said class, because technically a doctor doesn't understand explosives or hunting. Whereas a hunter doesn't understand brain surgery and rocket science.

To me, A class is simply a set collection of skills that someone is good at. And using the example that i used above, you could add a third option which would follow something along the lines of Star Wars saga edition.

Skills are either none, skilled or focused.
Please understand that i am using % signs simply as a method of transferring my idea, not as a set thing.
No training in skill = 75% failure, 25% success
Skilled in a skill = 50% failure, 50% success
Focused in a skill = 25% failure, 75% success

And i should add one more thing, failing at something that you have no training in, versus failing at something that you have some or more training in would have varying degrees of bad.

So, failing at unarming a trap with no training might kill you, while failing at unarming a trap which you focused may simply be you losing some hitpoints.

[Godbot]

By the way, SGTdude, if you want the campaign to be story-driven, you might want to give the players a basic premise before they build their characters, so that players can come up with characters who would want to go along with the story, rather than take a bunch of premade characters and say they all meet in a bar.

The characters in Mass Effect are a good example of what I mean: the basic quest hook is that you have to find this rogue space cop and his magic spaceship, and the characters who join your party all have different reasons for why they want to come along with you. One character wants to find her mother, who's the space cop's second in command; another wants to fight the space cop's minions, who overran her people's planet; another just wants to get in good fights and wants to come along, and so on.

[SGTdude]

well i made a comment but somehow it didnt post.

I plan on telling you some of the story. But the problem right now is that I dont know how to do that without spoilers. That is part of what I am trying to figure out. And if I do this right, you will definitely want me to not spoil the spoilers.

I do like the idea of a skill system, but will have a class just for Burns since he wants one so badly

Piecing together the plot for this thing is turning out to be more challenging that I first expected, but I am getting closer to having the initial hook and setup for character creation. But we are not there yet.


In regards to roleplaying = success, I plan on doing something similar to M0rt where I basically repeat your actions and what not, but the way you chose to do things will help me determine how your actions/etc actually take place in consideration of what is going on. But like I said, this is still in development. Let me see what I can come up with today though.

[Arch Lich Burns]

Badger wanted it, not me. I want the skill based system.

[BadgeAddict]

Stop it... i did not say i wanted a class system. Merely that a class was a name to call a set of skills. And for the last time, stop calling me badger.

honestly, it completely makes sense. If there was a list of skills: Stealth, Traps, Lockpicking, Backstabbing then most people would assume that it is a rogue. So, when i say class, i mean a TITLE for a set of skills.

If i said hunting, tracking, traps, ambushing then the title would most likely be scout or huntsman.

Thus, in ending, in my understanding and/or the way i see it.

Class = Title/Name for a set/group of skills.

[gamecreator]

Of what use those titles would be?

[SGTdude]

Well BA is not far off from where I am starting this, but then remember that everyone will start at level 0.

But I see his point, its aiming at a center of something (like rogue) but picking up what skills you want along the way). Or at least that is my interpretation of what he said.


I should have something later today.

[BadgeAddict]

None, except to call the skills something. a short term to mean a range of skills.

It allows the Gm, to say, Pick from this list of Assembled Skills

The other option, is for the GM to come up with a list of skills and allow people to pick from them to create their own variant/type of character. However, should there not be certain skills that have anti skills. Meaning if you are good at one skill should you be bad a another one.

There is potential to create an unbalanced character otherwise. Whereas if there are these...TITLEs, which contain certain grouping of skills, the GM has more control over what a character can do.

Understand that everything in a game is about the balance between two things and only two things

1. Allowing the Character to do anything they want.
and
2. Controlling the game.

Too much freedom is no fun, and too much control is no fun. Thus, I'm merely suggesting a way to allow skills, but limit their overuse. If skills are bundled under certain types, or if there are skills that when taken make it so that other skills may not be taken, it creates a balance. Whereas allowing characters to choose any skill they want without a limit of what they pick creates what is known as dumps. In alot of dnd games, either wisdom or charisma become a dump stat, in which players choose to start with a 7 so that they can get more of something else (point buy system). If there are skills that are given but have no clear use, what is the point in getting them.

Though it depends on what kind of character you want to make. Why not take the best of all skills and ignore the rest.

Perhaps i am over-analyzing this though.

SGT, you may understand what i say in any way you want, it is your game after all, I'm just trying to give general ideas.

[gamecreator]

Let's call this class-titles of yours as presets. As I see it, the purpose of presets is to merely guide players in their choice of skills. They shouldn't limit character creation and development.
About balance and overuse: if you are given a set number of starting skill points and all skills are approximately equal in usefulness, the system is already balanced. Obviously, you can't pick all skills mastered, as you wouldn't have points for that. And in no way skills should limit learning of other skills! That's the purpose of character traits (e.g. one-handed fighter can't learn dual wielding, but two-handed wizard can).
And if a game system (e.g. DnD) has stats (or skills), that can be harmlessly dumped, such system is unbalanced.

[BadgeAddict]

well, until you just said it just now, there has been no mention of traits. As far as we've been told or have discussed there are only skills. And to make another point about the balance of pure skills. Although i may be incorrect in stating this, and i will check after I've typed this out, but, i can't think of any class that has all skills available. There are, in every case that I'm aware of, at least some skills that are "Cross-classed". This means that some skills are outside of your parameters to learn because of the skills you have available to you and or have already chosen. If this is incorrect, I will accept proof.

edit: and by outside of your parameters to learn, I mean specifically, more difficult to learn.

[SGTdude]

Please do not turn this thread into a debate over balanced character creation methods.

If you want to do that go start your own thread.

But to make an end of it, I pretty much have the idea set for how I want to do characters in this if I can get all the story elements pieced together suitably. So any further discussion about how to do character builds is pretty much useless speculation.

Still hoping to have some kind of update today.

[BadgeAddict]

You'll have no altercation from me commander.

[SGTdude]

Sometimes you try not to do something for various reasons. And then later on you go "why am I trying so hard not to do this? Is doing this really so bad?", because if you don't do that you just continue trying to force something to work a certain way because it just cant end up being that thing that you didnt want in the first place.

So I am making this a goblins game. Because making it not a goblins game is just too difficult.

Its not a goblins game, but that wont make sense to you right now, so its a goblins game for all intents and purposes.

Here is the basic story to get you started:
This is an altiverse. Somewhere on this world there may be a Maze of Many, but I have not decided to make that connection yet, so we will see. But this game setting can basically be considered to be an alternative of the universe of THuntonia.

In this world many of the goblin clans, fearing eventual extinction came together with the human populations that were nearby and a peace was established. Cities that existed grew larger, and soon these cities became a haven for all intelligent creatures and the basic fantasy equivalent of a metropolis was formed. There were exceptions to this peaceful progress, but thats getting a bit ahead of ourselves. These cities, formerly functioning as waypoints for adventurers, became centers of commerce and trade with outlying villages and other major cities. The future seemed bright, until you were born that is.

There was a small group of goblins which sought to distinguish themselves instead of becoming further assimilated into the melting pot culture. They wanted to restore their clan identity and while living in the city, still be separate and free to pursue their destiny as goblins. The leaders of the city however saw this as divisive and destructive to the future of the city. In their mind, all citizens had to be the same, no matter how different, and there was no room for distinction of subgroups any more. So those identifying with the clan were exiled from the city and told, in no uncertain language, that if they took any action against the city or the outlying villages to which they provided patronage other than complete surrender to all city laws, they would be imprisoned on sight. Determined to see their vision through, the newly elected chief lead the small clan of goblins to a land far away from the city to a large island where they lived in peace.

It is to this clan which you were born. And, because players generally are not content to live out their lives as farmers, or woodworkers, and such, the world would never be the same.




I have obviously left out many details, some of which will be provided later, some which will be provided sooner, some which will be decided upon by the group themselves. This is not a turn based game, excepting instances of combat, and is set to focus on the larger story at hand and that of the individual characters rather than a documenting of how they leveled up, got more power, and killed lots of stuff.

For those interested, there will be an application process (it wont be that difficult, but it will exist). Feel free to move about the cabin and discuss among yourselves.

[gamecreator]

well, until you just said it just now, there has been no mention of traits.

Well, obviously characters have some traits or distinctive features, otherwise they will be identical. Traits might not exist in rules, but that doesn't mean there are none.

There are, in every case that I'm aware of, at least some skills that are "Cross-classed". This means that some skills are outside of your parameters to learn because of the skills you have available to you and or have already chosen. If this is incorrect, I will accept proof.

Do this cases concern certain game systems? Naturally, limitations of what skills character can learn come from character's stats or them not knowing some other skill, rather than from knowing it.

As for the game description so far, it sounds kind of boring. I shall see what happens next.

[SGTdude]

Well you already seemed to indicate that you didnt think you would be that interested in this, so I was kind of figuring you weren't joining up anyways.


As far as a boring game description, well I just dont really want to give much away at all with what I have in mind. All I was trying to do with the description is give the basest of understandings about why this game is going to start where it is starting. I am very tempted to just put out the whole idea from the start but I dont think that would be enjoyable.

I dont mind saying that I dont know that this is going to work. The idea I have is...well I dont know if its going to work. But I am still trying to go forward with it to see if its possible to make this work. It will definitely take to collaborative creativity of everyone working together. But if this idea doesnt get off the ground, I have another idea which is so completely different that it may not even really find a place here. But thats why I am trying this one first.

There is still much to work out with this so I wont be making another update to this again today.

[SGTdude]

I am not going to be able to run this idea for several reasons, a lesser one of which is that certain elements of the plot just arent meshing like I had hoped.

I would love to do this in the future, I dont know when that might happen. I regret to put this down, but its just what has to happen for now. Thanks for expressing interest and for understanding.

[SGTdude]

Ok, I really want to see this idea pursued.

It is a good idea and I know that now. Its just a hard one to put together and run for me right now. I could just novelize it but I dont believe that would be as enjoyable as having others who can take part in shaping what happens. So I am still thinking about this and will hold off putting this away for the moment. I can not run this right now as things stand but I am going to see if there is a way to run this at all.

[Arch Lich Burns]

It does not have to be a perfect game, and perhaps you can fix the plot as you go. Some people are better with improv plot than planned. At least give it a shot to try at least? Maybe?

[SGTdude]

I am seriously considering it burns.

I will make a decision one way or the other for sure by next week.

Until then, I will see what ideas strike me.

[BadgeAddict]

To be slightly honest, in cavemen: sotf, We spent about two weeks making up possible story events, but because players do the darnedest things sometimes, we're making up alot of stuff on the fly. So, don't worry about creating something perfect before starting.

[SGTdude]

Ok...

Assuming I am starting this (which I am not officially doing), let me ask you:
Remember when Chief sacrificed himself to fight Kore? And then remember how he died?

This isn't wacky zany goblins. This is more like that stuff.


The clan that all the players would start in would live in a land pretty much to themselves, but there would still be a danger of wild animals, climate, and other harsh elements of just trying to survive.

With all that in mind, I would like you to describe what you do for the clan. I am not asking you what your character's personality is (although, should this get started and you want to use this material it would be up to you) but asking you to answer this situation:

A stranger is visiting your clan and walks up to you asking, "So what do you do around here?"

Post your answers some time before the beginning of next week. They dont have to be great, but they shouldn't suck.

[Arch Lich Burns]

"You are asking me what I do? Well, that really depends on what you mean by that, for all I know is that I have done nothing, or I have done everything. What you see around here may or may not exist. Why believe it to be such? You can be an illusion for all I know or something that came from my own mind. If you are from my mind then why should I answer you? Because I want it to be so? Because from what I see here is a world that is not the world we live in. A wizard has conjured everybody up, and nothing is certain, how are you certain that you even exist? Even if you do exist then why should I answer you when the solution should be clear? You are only a tiny part of this world, you are unimportant now and forever, only a speck. Someone so small that all their achievements will be forgotten.

I am not the person or goblin or whatever that grants one insight, for to have insight one must know what is going on. No, I make them Question Everything. I make them doubt themselves and their actions."

[BadgeAddict]

The small goblin looks around, left, then right, before whispering I sneak out late at night and spy on the main camp where the ladies live. He says with a sly grin which quickly vanishes again from his face as he scans the area to make sure no one is listening to him. Im the sneakiest and bestest climber in the entire village. I have a favorite tree that I like to climb to watch the lalaladies from. He says with a small stutter as his cheeks turn a slight shade of red. Its just my luck that the tree branches stretch over their bathing pool." He stops talking, takes another look around before walking away whistling.

► Show Spoiler

I still don't know if i'll play, but here is just in case. The bad grammar or spelling is intentional.