Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:56 am

I do not understand it, and could not find about ghostwalk ghosts, and sounds like a major pain to get rid of my ghost LAs


...Oh! Can I get an etherial handy haversack? When i materilize i can move stuff, and I can keep some comporeal items. Like potions of inflict wounds (or a wand of it). I can rechard wands with my spells right?

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:20 am

As for recharging, there's this variant rule on the subject, though by default you cannot recharge items. There is, I believe, also a feat that lets you pay a minute fraction of a charge based magic item's cost to add charges back, but it requires the prerequisite feat for making the type of item you're recharging. However, the only reference I can find for said feat is from NBoF, so that may be out.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:05 am

Theis2 wrote:I've never used or heard of the variant where you buy off level adjustment, but that would mean I would start at level 8 only needing 3000 xp to get to level 9?
Something to that effect, yeah; players start with the same amount of XP, so any penalties they've taken would short them a level.
and I guess bloodlines is out of the question :P
Bloodlines are terrible; if you really want one I can probably live with it, but I certainly don't advise it.
Arch Lich Burns wrote:I do not understand it, and could not find about ghostwalk ghosts
Nevermind Ghostwalk actually; I found the extra ghost rules I was thinking of, they should answer your questions. Note: Please take the entire ghost template along with 4 levels (or less, if you wanted any other fancy stuff) of Bard. I know some GMs would allow you to take only part of a savage progression, and almost any GM would be fine with you being a Bard 8 who's just taken his first level of Ghost and will progress in that until level 13, but I'd really rather have you stick to the straightforward and progress only in a "real" class. The full five levels of Ghost SP are essentially the same as the Ghost template in the MM, but with clarified rules for ghost powers and equipment.
and sounds like a major pain to get rid of my ghost LAs
Unfortunately for any total LA over 4, you can only ever buy off 1 of it, at level 12 for an LA +4, or 15 for your LA +5. (Now that I think about it, even though nobody ever gets level 21 in my non-epic campaign, I could probably allow a player at level 20 to eventually buy off a 2nd point of their 4 LA. But there's definitely no hope for your +5, sorry.)
I can rechard wands with my spells right?
I am not aware of any rule that would let you do this. If you have the Create Wand feat, you could probably use the physical stick of an old wand when creating a new wand, and I might houserule that this reduces the gold cost slightly, but otherwise it's pretty much no different from normal crafting.
Amara wrote:As for recharging, there's this variant rule on the subject, though by default you cannot recharge items.
They pretty much tell you right in that rule that you probably shouldn't use it, so yeah, not so much.
There is, I believe, also a feat that lets you pay a minute fraction of a charge based magic item's cost to add charges back, but it requires the prerequisite feat for making the type of item you're recharging. However, the only reference I can find for said feat is from NBoF, so that may be out.
Yeah, very little of the Forgotten Realms is going to be improved in my game (I did once use a Mineral Warrior monster, but only because my player had a very minmaxed warblade and I was having trouble finding anything to challenge him - without shutting him down completely, which is still easy enough to do). The last thing I want to do is make wizards even more powerful, by giving them extra toys from a high-magic setting like Faerun.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:16 pm

Incidentally Spider, I found out why Bloodfeeding seemed like such a weak weapon enhancement - your math was off! According to the MIC, the weapon still gains 1 BP per hit, and still can add up to 10 damage to a strike - but it costs only 5 BP to do so, for each BP spent is +2 damage. That's a LOT more relevant, because you can pretty much just constantly have a +2 to damage as long as you keep stabbing things, earning 1 BP which you then spend on the next attack, even in the next combat, unless you have a reason for saving it up. This means that Bloodfeeding is essentially a +2 enhancement bonus only to damage, with a slight limitation (doesn't charge up when fighting oozes/constructs/skeletons/plants/elementals/etc. - with all those exceptions, it's probably still good close to 2/3 of the time), and a slight advantage (able to concentrate the damage on particular hits at up to a 5-to-1 ratio if desired. Given that you're taking Bloodfeeding instead of a +1 enhancement to both attack and damage, having its effect bonus to just damage be +2 rather than +1 is...rather significant.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:18 pm

It sounds like the source you are reading from now and the one I read from before don't say the same thing,...

"Every time this weapon deals damage to a creature with blood, it gains 1 blood point. When the weapon has 5 blood points, it can deal an additional 1 point of damage at the user's behest (spending the blood points). The weapon can store up to 50 blood points, allowing an additional 10 points of damage, usable all at once or divided up over a number of attacks."

When I posted it, I hadn't really done the math, just thought the mechanic was kinda neat, it wasn't til you pointed it out that I saw that how this was written, that you had to :stab: five times to be able to do an extra 1 damage...
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:11 am

So can I have etherial items? I need hat of disguise (you do NOT want to see what he really looks like), and hopefully wand of inflict light wounds and maybe handyhaversack.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:19 am

spiderwrangler wrote:It sounds like the source you are reading from now and the one I read from before don't say the same thing,...

"Every time this weapon deals damage to a creature with blood, it gains 1 blood point. When the weapon has 5 blood points, it can deal an additional 1 point of damage at the user's behest (spending the blood points). The weapon can store up to 50 blood points, allowing an additional 10 points of damage, usable all at once or divided up over a number of attacks."

When I posted it, I hadn't really done the math, just thought the mechanic was kinda neat, it wasn't til you pointed it out that I saw that how this was written, that you had to :stab: five times to be able to do an extra 1 damage...
Maybe they nerfed it. What was your source?
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:10 am

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:51 am

Does it say it looses blood points overtime? You can damage animal and stuff to get the points, and keep it at 5 if they do not expire

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by spiderwrangler » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:13 am

They stay, which does allow you to store them, but as written where I found it, you would have to hit 50 times to store up 10 damage worth of bloodpoints.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:08 pm

Ah. Their source for it is Book of Vile Darkness, which is a 3.0 product. So the MIC version I mentioned is definitely the correct one.
spiderwrangler wrote:They stay, which does allow you to store them, but as written where I found it, you would have to hit 50 times to store up 10 damage worth of bloodpoints.
Yeesh, you're right, that is what it says. I had read it previously as simply needing to have at least 5 blood before you gained the ability to spend 1 blood for 1 extra damage, up to a maximum of 10 per attack and 50 for the weapons' total fill. So the MIC one is about a hundred times better than this, instead of just twice as good. (Unless I misread that one too.)
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:34 am

I threw something together quickly. If we play higher, I can easily advance him. It is 4 AM and I am barely coherent. It is likely none of this makes sense.
Name : Cassien Pelgraves
Race : Human
Class :Beguiler 9
ECL : 9
Align : True Neutral (Leans more toward CG than LE)
Affiliation: None
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Still need to edit skills to update them to the new amount (I think I mis-counted on the sheet I made for him,) and I'm debating over some items. Needed to at least post THIS since it's been days. x-x
I've had a ton of papers due. I'm sorry for taking so long.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:52 pm

Working on intensive character-sheet review now, so that we can start soonish; I might get busy in a week or so, and thus want to try and get over the hill so that we can coast for a while.

A question came up on Amara's character, which I'll take anyone's input on. Since beguilers are spontaneous casters, and the book doesn't say anything to the contrary, I'd assume that even though the class gave them the Silent Spell metamagic feat, they suffer from the same penalty as sorcerers when using it, IE they have to cast as a full-round action?
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Last edited by willpell on Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:28 pm

I think I transposed his level 8 beguiler bonus when I was trying to type up the updated feats and features section, since Cloaked Casting now offers a +2 to overcoming spell resistance. I didn't realize I was short on his stats. I was assuming for typical starting at 8, with 9 costing 1 point, 10 costing 2, 11 costing 3, etc.. It's been ages since I statted up Rian, so I'm sorry if I forgot a modification for how you were running it. Hrm. How I'd wanted to handle Cassien originally, I SHOULD add more to CHA, but I'm not sure if my original build idea for him will be at all possible. For example, if it was wisdom skills I needed, I could pick up Keen Intellect to replace WIS with INT for skill use, but all I'm aware of for CHA is Rapscallion, which only aids bluff. I think there may be an INT feat that aids in magic device use, as well, but I can't recall it.

I'm also thinking I may change for 8 Beguiler / 1 Swashbuckler to pick up weapon finesse, if you're alright with that, and go for +1 to CHA and +1 to DEX. At least then I'll be able to hit the broad side of a barn if I'm forced out of range, since I won't be able to do damage with my spells. :b

[edit]
Silent spell shouldn't effect my casting time. Right, 3.5.It will, however, make a spell count as one level higher whenever I use it. It should be the same for a sorcerer doing such. IE, silent spell on a fireball would make it eat up one of their 4th level slot uses. No, I'd be ruled the same as a Sorcerer.That was why I was originally hoping to pick up the ring, to be able to get a few spells off silenced if need be that I wouldn't be able to raise in spell level, otherwise..and in quick succession on subsequent turns. (Such as Charm Monster, should I need to...persuade anyone.)

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:02 pm

Amara wrote:I think I transposed his level 8 beguiler bonus when I was trying to type up the updated feats and features section, since Cloaked Casting now offers a +2 to overcoming spell resistance. I didn't realize I was short on his stats. I was assuming for typical starting at 8, with 9 costing 1 point, 10 costing 2, 11 costing 3, etc.. It's been ages since I statted up Rian, so I'm sorry if I forgot a modification for how you were running it.
No, that is how it works; points 15 and 16 cost 2 point-buy each, and points 17 and 18 cost 3, but otherwise this is correct. You probably just started with 18 intelligence and then took his two +1s to other stats, which might be a logical thing to do if playing the character from level 1 (although then you'd probably just take INT up to 20 by level 8). But if these are basically the stats you want and 18 INT is enough for you, then you can at least shore up your Charisma, Wisdom, or Constitution a bit, making you less fragile, less oblivious, and more effective at beguiling.
Hrm. How I'd wanted to handle Cassien originally, I SHOULD add more to CHA, but I'm not sure if my original build idea for him will be at all possible. For example, if it was wisdom skills I needed, I could pick up Keen Intellect to replace WIS with INT for skill use, but all I'm aware of for CHA is Rapscallion, which only aids bluff. I think there may be an INT feat that aids in magic device use, as well, but I can't recall it.
I'm not familiar with any of this stuff at the moment, so if you want to take these feats please let me know.
I'm also thinking I may change for 8 Beguiler / 1 Swashbuckler to pick up weapon finesse, if you're alright with that, and go for +1 to CHA and +1 to DEX. At least then I'll be able to hit the broad side of a barn if I'm forced out of range, since I won't be able to do damage with my spells. :b
This would deprive you of a spellcasting level, which is probably not wise, and Weapon Finesse alone is kind of a sad reason to multiclass. I only counted three feats on you besides the bonus Silent Spell; as a level 9 human, you should have five of them (two at level 1, one more at 3, one more at 6, and the last at 9). Although I should probably say Versatile Spellcaster is a higher-level feat which costs two feats of the previous level. :-P
That was why I was originally hoping to pick up the ring, to be able to get a few spells off silenced if need be that I wouldn't be able to raise in spell level, otherwise..and in quick succession on subsequent turns. (Such as Charm Monster, should I need to...persuade anyone.)
If you want to go back to having the silent spells ring, that's perfectly fine by me.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:30 pm

He has Eschew materials, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Unsettling Enchantment, and Versatile Spellcaster. The issue is inherent in playing a utility-based caster. I have some damage, though it's entirely nonlethal (so I can't do much against undead, constructs, etc), and the majority of damage I contribute in a combat scenario is going to be purely weapon-based or purely control. I'll definitely be getting an item to help with his CHA, since honestly I need much higher CHA to run a beguiler properly. Probably a wand or two so I have something to do when we're against creatures my spells don't work on. With how you're ruling the silent spells ring, it could still be very useful for other casters, just not so much for me if anyone I use it around is instantly aware. I'd been planning buying it preemptively and riding things out until level 5 spells get unlocked for Dominate Person.

er
How I take him from here though depends; what are we going to be looking at for combat vs social scenarios?

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:50 pm

Okay Amara, I've completed an exhaustive review of Cassien's sheet, and here's what I've got to say.

* Waiting for confirmation that you are indeed taking your DEX up to 16 and your Charisma to 14, increasing both modifiers.

* Please put a line in there somewhere for your XP total, currently at 45,000 (the bare minimum of a level 9 character; since nothing majorly changes between levels 8 and 9 for the beguiler, your character probably has no particular awareness that he just crossed a threshold in his career path).

* Please record your BAB (+4) and saves (base +3/+3/+6, total +4/+5/+6 or +4/+6/+6 depending on whether or not you raise your DEX).

* Again, you're missing two feats, one of which you had suggested using for Weapon Finesse, and that's completely fine.

* You appear to have a whopping 18-21 unspent skill points (I've counted three times and keep getting different results; I suppose I'm mathed out for the day); I'm guessing you forgot the +12 that you get just for being a level 9 human, but that still seems to leave at least 6 unaccounted for. Besides upping some of your skills (you didn't max your Concentration and Tumble why exactly? and why only 1 rank in Spellcraft and the two Knowledges? makes your character seem like an incredibly sheltered know-nothing, which doesn't appear to quite match his backstory, though he may trend in that direction somewhat), I'd also like to draw your attention to the option of Skill Tricks (described in Complete Scoundrel). Each one costs 2 skill points, and you may have at most 5 of them; ones that seem particularly appropriate or useful, and which you already qualify for (despite having only taken one of your skills up to the common prerequisite of 12 ranks; the others all stop at 9 and I'm not certain why), include:
* Conceal Spellcasting - Once per encounter, make a Sleight of Hand roll while spellcasting, and anyone who doesn't beat you with a Spot check has no idea you did it, which means they can't make attacks of opportunity or attempts to counterspell. (I'm ambivalent as to whether to allow using this ability after failing a "cast defensively" roll; since one is always possible and the other is slightly limited-use, being able to use one to substitute for the other *might* be appropriate, but I worry about the precedent this would set, and it seems as though casting defensively would logically be somewhat obvious, though perhaps you can make it look as if you failed to cast the spell at all.)
* Group Fake-Out - For a -2 penalty per additional target, you can Feint against an entire group at once (again, once per encounter). I'm not sure the writers of Scoundrel entirely though this one through, since few characters will both have Bluff in-class and a high enough BAB to be effective in attacking more than one or two targets, even if they don't have their DEX bonus. A TWFer might like it against two monsters, but otherwise it's generally not much use to a typical character from the corebook classes. However, it seems like it might have been specifically designed for beguilers, as it could easily work with an area attack. (I think you still have to be adjacent to everyone you're feinting at, though neither the description of Feint nor that of Surprise Casting seems to specify.)
* Extreme Leap - I'm not sure why you have five ranks of Jump, but since you do, this trick will let you get an extra 10 feet of movement any time you make a Jump check (and as far as I know, it's perfectly legit to jump just because you feel like it, if you can nail the DC required to jump as far as you could have traveled on foot). As usual, this applies once per encounter, but it could be a good way to close with an enemy and hit them with a short-range spell when they're otherwise just a little too far away.
* Nimble Stand- You can stand up from prone without provoking. This one doesn't specify any exception to the general once-per-encounter rule of skill tricks (Clever Improviser does), but it's so situational that I think you can pretty much use it as often as necessary. Otherwise, it's not especially great, but I wanted to provide you with options.
* Tumbling Crawl - Once per encounter, you can crawl 5 feet as a move action with a DC 15 tumble check, and not provoke as crawling usually does. An alternative to the previous one, this one would involve you remaining prone instead of getting up, letting you close with an opponent who just 5-stepped away from you and stab him in the foot or something, without his buddies getting to kick you as you wriggle across the floor. I picture halflings and such doing this sort of thing a lot; up to you whether you think it'd be in-character for Cassien.
* Swift Concentration - This one you actually don't qualify for yet; you'll have to max your Concentration ranks (costing a total of 5 skill points for the trick and its prereq), and it'll be something that you only recently became able to do. But the ability to Concentrate on a spell as a swift action is potentially pretty exciting to a spellcaster, so I figured I'd bring it up.
* Clever Improviser - go without thieves' tools and ignore the -2 penalty on Open Lock and Disable Device rolls, as long as you haven't failed such a roll that day. Another one where you don't quite meet the preqs; you'll need 1 more rank in Open Lock, but it's very likely to be worth it for the boost to your Disable Device rolls, unless you were planning on buying masterwork thieftools anyway. (And if you get picked up and thrown in jail, they'll presumably take all your stuff, so this trick might really save your bacon. Not that I plan to have this be a plot point or anything, of course....)

* Synergy bonuses stack, so both your Bluff and your Sense Motive will improve your Diplomacy check, giving you a current total of +6 to such rolls. Conversely, the Bluff synergy with to Disguise only applies to a check made to act like another person; as far as I know, the standard Disguise roll to look like someone else never benefits from a synergy. (And technically, if you make an untrained Survival check to follow tracks with a DC of 10 or less, you have a +2 on that roll thanks to your Search ranks. Don't you feel special.)

* Please select the five languages you speak besides Common. Options available to you include but are not limited to the following, as well as those listed in the PHB:
Arcadian (the language of the Fair Folk from the Chaotic Good afterlife)
Yeenagh (language of the hyena-men also known as Yeenagh, who are definitely not "gnolls")
Goblin (spoken by the militaristic Hobgoblin "hatchet kingdom" which persists in chafing the Empire's buns, as well as the verminous little "bogles" and brutish "bugaboors" of the wilder regions within and without human lands)
Illumine (a peculiarly complex and counterintuitive language popularized by a few pretentious scholars)
Worg (the bizarre, Darwinian speech favored by this murderous race of Awakened wolves)
Maenad (an archaic human tongue as far as anyone knows, but one popular among psionicists, many of whom are indeed secretly Maenads)
Aboleth (language of the "slaver fish" who rule much of the Underdark; this name is not applied to the creatures themselves in my setting)
Tyranski (language of the "eye tyrants", fearsome arcane aberrations which kill even their own cousins on sight)
Ghost Dog (language spoken by an intelligent race of Good-aligned canines with the power to blink in and out of reality)
Thri-Kreen (clicking, hissing, barely-prounounceable-by-humans language of the insectile Mantodea)
Valuska (secret language of a race of serpentine infiltrators lurking among humanity; very few even know they exist, and those who can decrypt their speech are likely to end up with slit throats)
Ancient High Elven (extinct version of the general Elven tongue, still prized among cultural elitists)
Southern Cycadrian (one of the three native dialects of a large, tropical, and rather rough-edged human country which dislikes the Empire you live in)
Desert Nomad (language of the wanderers in the most inhospitable parts of the aforementioned Cycadria)
If these options and the PHB ones are inadequate, let me know and I'll scrounge up some more. My world is nothing but not complex; Common is as omnipresent as English on Earth, but the variety of other languages is also comparable, unlike in Greyhawk and the like.

* You probably want a weapon of some sort, and otherwise to finish picking out your remaining 34,900 crowns worth of gear. Once you accomplish that, you'll be ready to rock and roll!

Since this process took like four hours for just one character, I'll get to everyone else whenever I can. Amara posts less often than the rest of us, so I figured I'd give her the extra time to review and react to this post on her own schedule. I'll probably do Synch next since (s?/)he has some of the same issues.
Amara wrote:He has Eschew materials, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Unsettling Enchantment, and Versatile Spellcaster.
I missed Unsettling Enchantment, but that still leaves you one to take Weapon Finesse.
With how you're ruling the silent spells ring, it could still be very useful for other casters, just not so much for me if anyone I use it around is instantly aware.
I didn't say that was 100% true; it will depend on how much ambient noise is around, as well as how perceptive the person is. I'll probably have them roll Listen checks at whatever DC I decide is fitting, and/or just fiat it based on my opinion of their personality. (My philosophy is always that, while the fate of the world literally does revolve around the PCs, even the lowliest of the flunkies they encounter is still a person with their own feelings, dreams, opinions and such; they won't all be special snowflakes, but I try to keep their status as cardboard cutouts cleverly disguised with a semblance of individuality, and I'm very fond of having them turn into major campaign NPCs after the first time you met them, who could be allies or enemies depending largely on how you treated them. Not that preemptively slitting the throat of anyone who might decide to follow them in search of retribution guarantees that this won't still occur; after all we have a vengeful ghost right in the party.)
How I take him from here though depends; what are we going to be looking at for combat vs social scenarios?
Some of each. D&D has shit for social rules, but I love roleplaying, so I feel as if combat is the "real game" that everyone signed up to play, but it takes so much longer and is so frequently much less interesting, I can't resist having a lot of social situtaions come up, even if they all have to be handled strictly through dialogue and guesswork.
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Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:05 pm

Wait we have tricks starting?

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:12 pm

I'm debating introducing a "rule of thumb" to simplify my task of granting XP awards; anyone with a better head for math than me, tell me if you think this seems reasonable and semi-accurate. I ran an exercise which modeled (very imprecisely) the careers of four (later five, which was a much better number in math terms) adventurers murderhoboing their way through a series of monsters identified only by their CR and quantity, and saw how their XP totals fluctuated, attempting to document the "river of XP" phenomenon that the Practical Optimization community has known about for some time. I came to the conclusion that it seems as though, if you have as many class levels as your level adjustment x8 (the model doesn't yet extend to creatures with Hit Dice), you'll pretty much be in lockstep with your non-LA-having counterparts as to when they level. Thusly, I'm debating decreeing that level-8 characters who have a total of +1 Level Adjustment can simply not have that level adjustment, and be built as if their race was LA +0. The same would be true of +2 LA creatures with 16 class levels; having entirely dispensed with their LA by level 9, they will since have "caught up" completely enough that they functionally might as well be humans or dwarves or the like, despite having the advantages of being Drow or Phrenic or whatever (though not both - that totals a +4 LA, which is essentially inescapable). In theory LA +3 creatures, like half-dragons, would need 24 class levels to make their LA "invisible" (they can buy it off by level 18, but they'll need vastly more XP to reach level 20 than their contemporaries; I haven't modeled the difference but I'm predicting 4 epic levels would suffice to catch them up) - but since my game doesn't go into epic levels at all (the number of creatures worldwide who can't be modeled as ECL 20 or less NPCs is perhaps in the quadruple digits at most, for an entire physical universe AND all the outer planes, and all of them exist basically as load-bearing plot devices who are assumed to have basically no free will - most of them just gave up on existing aeons ago, and now exist as dragon-shaped lakes or tortured-looking statues on the Abyssal plain or the like).

Since our game is just above the level 8 threshold, this rule would be germane to players who aren't already married to having an LA +0 race (mostly Synch and Theis, since they didn't specify species as far as I noticed - this would let their characters be a Tieflings or Draconics or something and still have nine class levels). If the players who are already a template-less human, a non-Drow Elf, a gnome, and someone whose LA is in the stratosphere feel discriminated against by this eleventh-hour offering, I'll refrain from extending it to the other two; it might not be a great idea anyway. But I thought I'd field it for discussion before I filed it away in my collection of not-yet-market-ready house rules.
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Skill Tricks are available for purchase, yes. Follow all guidelines in Complete Scoundrel and ask if anything's unclear. I am not terribly averse to the idea of homebrew ones either, as long as they stick very close to the power level demonstrated in the book, and are formatted similarly (ie avoiding dangerous vagueness and calling attention to whatever normal rules they break). Overall I think it was one of the better additions to the D&D canon (Skill Tricks, that is, not necessarily CScou as a whole).
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:20 pm

Okay will have to find a pdf of that then.


Also: amaura if you really want to sneak i can always play distraction. o:)


Also does that mean those with higher templates have another pevel in a class?

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:48 pm

willpell wrote: I didn't say that was 100% true; it will depend on how much ambient noise is around, as well as how perceptive the person is. I'll probably have them roll Listen checks at whatever DC I decide is fitting, and/or just fiat it based on my opinion of their personality. (My philosophy is always that, while the fate of the world literally does revolve around the PCs, even the lowliest of the flunkies they encounter is still a person with their own feelings, dreams, opinions and such; they won't all be special snowflakes, but I try to keep their status as cardboard cutouts cleverly disguised with a semblance of individuality, and I'm very fond of having them turn into major campaign NPCs after the first time you met them, who could be allies or enemies depending largely on how you treated them. Not that preemptively slitting the throat of anyone who might decide to follow them in search of retribution guarantees that this won't still occur; after all we have a vengeful ghost right in the party.)
So if the "sneaking along an alleyway, enact it to bombard someone with spells for full takeover" (ideal cardboard/stock situation, not...something I necessarily see happening in character OR game,) were to happen, I'd probably still be fine? I might still swing for it, then. I'll finish making myself a spreadsheet to keep track of my inventory for myself and then I'll type it up here. I missed a ton of skill points because I...forgot to spend some after leveling up from 6 to 9. Oops. I'm guessing that's also why I'm missing a feat. As for the synergies, half of my "why do you have X ranks in Y" was probably when I was first setting him up for 6, and dipped JUST enough ranks to get synergies. I may look at tricks with the remaining points once I finish fixing his sheet PDF side, so that I can type it all here.
willpell wrote:Some of each. D&D has shit for social rules, but I love roleplaying, so I feel as if combat is the "real game" that everyone signed up to play, but it takes so much longer and is so frequently much less interesting, I can't resist having a lot of social situations come up, even if they all have to be handled strictly through dialogue and guesswork.
Nah. Not me, at least as far as combat being my main interest, I'm more of a "MacGyver" player because I tend to play characters that avoid combat except as a last resort. I just also try to simultaneously prepare them for combat if that becomes an issue. I also have a fondness for starting characters out inexperienced or inept, and getting to role play their 'growth'. Ultimately I enjoy tabletop so much BECAUSE of the freedom to solve the big scary problem with creative thinking instead of just taking the hack and slash approach, but when you need some cathartic beat up the monsters time, it's still good for that too. C:

Arch Lich Burns wrote:Okay will have to find a pdf of that then.


Also: amaura if you really want to sneak i can always play distraction. o:)


Also does that mean those with higher templates have another pevel in a class?
PMing you a download link in a moment.

While I'm at that, if anyone else needs specific PDFs, let me know. I'm sort of swimming in them at this point.


As for why I've suddenly been super inactive... frustrating constant internet disconnects combined with it being midterms for me right now. I may have finally fixed my internet issue, though! I had a hunch it was due to there being too many connections on the same channel, due to wireless cutting out so much (for a few seconds each time), so I tried setting both bands to a higher channel aaaaaaand so far, no problems since.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by willpell » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:06 pm

Arch Lich Burns wrote:Also does that mean those with higher templates have another pevel in a class?
No. As I was apologetically saying, your LA is too high to be possible to ignore this way (short of an absurdly high epic level, 40 to be specific).
Amara wrote:So if the "sneaking along an alleyway, enact it to bombard someone with spells for full takeover" (ideal cardboard/stock situation, not...something I necessarily see happening in character OR game,) were to happen, I'd probably still be fine?
Like I said, it'll depend on the situation. And thanks for making me have to decide ambient noise levels for every scene. :P
Nah. Not me, at least as far as combat being my main interest, I'm more of a "MacGyver" player because I tend to play characters that avoid combat except as a last resort.
Well what I mean is, if you're not going to be playing a combat-heavy game, one begins to question why exactly you're playing D&D instead of some other game system. For example, the World of Darkness gives people game statistics for their social and mental attributes - where D&D has only Charisma to represent how social you are as a person, WOD distinguishes between Charisma-meaning-leadership-ability-and-overt-likeability, Manipulation which is more subtle and treacherous, and depending on the version of WOD there's also either Appearance, for your character's attractiveness, or Composure, for his resistance to emotional manipulation and disturbing experiences. That's just the tip of the iceberg as to how other game systems do much better jobs of representing noncombat situations than the tacked-on afterthought that is the D&D skill system (it's telling that what are now Skills originally started out as "Nonweapon Proficiencies"). D&D started life as the Chainmail miniatures game, and as recently as 3E they put out an entire Handbook of the RPG telling you how to integrate tabletop minis more thoroughly into the game. Even if you're absolutely in love with the setting as I am, for a game with absolutely no combat, you probably would have an easier time doing a system conversion to Gurps or HERO or BESM or a dozen other rules sets, for the handfuls of things you'd need rules for at all (such as the measurable differences between various humanoid species - which, by the way, I really hate hearing referred to as "races"). The only things that D&D does really well are combat and spells, and if you're really attached to the latter, Mage the Ascension/Awakening is still better at making you feel omnipotent by giving you entire chapters full of hexes and divinations to throw around.

So if we're going to play D&D, there will definitely be *some* combat. But in view of how long it takes, and how hard it is without an easy method of mapping, while it will take up a great deal of our time, it will represent a fairly small proportion of the actual events in-character. You'll go days without getting into a fight, but probably not much worth typing about will happen during those days; then we'll spend a week and a half resolving thirty seconds of frenzied maneuvering, after bandits jump out at you or an efreeti teleports in or whatever.
I also have a fondness for starting characters out inexperienced or inept, and getting to role play their 'growth'.
This is something I love as well. It's why I have great difficulty building NPCs above first level; I always want to know how they started out, what made them choose the path they did.
While I'm at that, if anyone else needs specific PDFs, let me know. I'm sort of swimming in them at this point.
There are certainly a few I could use.
You either die Chaotic, or you live long enough to see yourself become Lawful.
Glemp wrote:To some extent, you need to be arrogant - without it, you are vulnerable being made someone's tool...for Herbert's sake, have the stubbornness not to submit to what you see instantly, because you can only see some facts at a time.
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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Amara » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:22 pm

Eh, while D&D's pure social mechanics are kind of dodgy, (and I'll confess I started pen and paper as a cWoD player!) D&D's surprisingly streamlined for most things, combat and non. It's nice knowing I just need a single roll to get a quick grasp on what knowledge a character should have in a given situation. But I've always found rolls during strict social/role play times to be...awkward, even in WoD, unless you're doing something that SHOULD be mechanical for balance, like trying to believably lie to someone. (And don't get me started on Exalted's SOCIAL COMBAT, dear lord, I still have flashbacks.) It feels like it breaks up the flow sometimes. So I tend to view rolls there as something more to speed things up when needed in my own games, though everyone's methods are different when running a game, and I like seeing how people handle things differently, honestly.


What PDFs are you needing?

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Arch Lich Burns » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:28 am

Ooooooh collector of stories is really good abd suits my character nicely. +5 on knowledge checks if monsters? Yes please. I will bardic knowledge all the things



Edit: amaura, are there any books with bard variants? Looking to replace countersone with something.

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Re: Recruitment Thread for Pell's D&D 3.5 Game

Post by Theis2 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:54 am

I think I may have to pass on this as I can't seem to get enough time to even look at my character lately. Hope you have a great game though.
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