MineCraft is Coming....again...

Nerre
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Nerre » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:49 pm

Where I was so far, you could open up tickets asking for protection for your area. Some kind of ingame text message mod. Then an admin only had to go there, click two diagonally opposite corner blocks of the zone and type in a simple 1 line command - done, its protected for the player/group owning the land.

There is a mod for that. You can even asign rights of your zone yourself if you are the owner, allowing people to build with you. Usefull if several people share a spot for example building a city.

For most not-nice people chat behaviour was enough. Most got sorted out by misbehaving there.

They had very good mods to spot x-rayers and grievers. Mining behaviour using statistics. So if you for example 5% of your blocks are valuable minerals instead of 0.5%, they made themselves invisible and watched you to catch you cheating. Or they placed diamond ores on the map where you were mining and waited to see if you went there by changing your movement/mining pattern.

There are plenty of good mods for that. The one allow admins to rewind an area I think is called logblock or similar.
Don't remember the rest, has been a while I did more than singleplayer.
:zzz:

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:33 pm

How would that fix the problem, Badge? Unless you're talking about spawn camping, and there are ways around that. I would think you'd do opposite... non PVP to start, PVP later.
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M0rtimer
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:02 pm

While that might fix the problem, I think the more likely scenario for that is going to be that you're going to scare away players. "Why should I join this server where I have to prove myself first, while there's a 100 other servers which will give it to me right away?"

Besides, it does also seem a bit... Counter-intuitive? To get access to the non-pvp area, you first have to prove yourself being a nice guy... In the pvp area. Where with any luck, well, do you remember me mentioning flying invincible douchebags with rocket launchers..?

You probably can do without claim protection and perhaps only rules with anti-griefing rules... But I don't think it's going to go over well with most players. I've yet to find a (popular) modded server which doesn't have some kind of claim protection...

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:22 pm

Well, it's obviously only an idea as well as a Work in progress.

I'd prefer not to do it that way as it would be a ton of additional work to set up those kind of permissions.
But you make a good point.

We'd obviously have some anti-griefing laws for people to abide with when they are within the NON-PVP area.

I do understand what you mean about people not really being willing to join a server when they can just join another one...

However, this is something my brother has said that I agree with. The reason that we won't be giving away Creative permissions is because we will not be using creative. Everything we build will be from stones that we mined (or created) ourselves.

The best part of this whole server idea is that, we're doing it for ourselves and inviting people to join us..although it would be open to the public sure, the point of this experiment is to have fun, not create a Minecraft empire like others have.

And honestly, if you Mort, Nerre, Aegis, LAYF...have enough friends/acquaintances or know some people that you would like to invite, then we can keep the server semi-private and you don't need to worry about people destroying things. If there are enough Goblins & Friends interested to make the game fun/interesting (like ~20) then the game needn't be public at all.

What it really comes down to is, my brother and I enjoy playing MC together, and we thought we would invite others to join in on our fun.

@Mort: Also, do you know which mod adds /home commands?

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Aegis J Hyena » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:36 pm

I would rather keep it full public. I like seeing random wanderers come in and add to the ranks.
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M0rtimer
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:58 pm

Yeah, I can see what you're trying to do... Sadly, it's easy to open the floodgates to allow the creation of a great community in theory- In practice it never turns out to be quite that easy, hence I'm just trying to give advice on preventing that.

In the end though, you're right in that "keeping" people doesn't seem to be in what you want most- Set the rules the way you want, regardless of what the majority wants if that's the case. Just keep in mind that there's always going to be that one asshole who's out to ruin it for everyone...

As for the home commands... It might be a bit tricky, but what I remember doing is that while a server usually comes default with forge, what I did was instead use MCPC+ or Cauldron- Which is a combination of Bukkit and Forge, meaning you can play modded while making use of bukkit plugins.

Cauldron:
https://www.beastnode.com/portal/knowle ... ldron.html

And bukkit plugins:

Lots of bukkit plugins, with commandbook adding /home and more: http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/Main_Page
*cough* grief prevention *cough* http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/grief-prevention/ :shifty:

I think there's also some forge only plugins if that's too complicated which I can give a look if you have trouble with that, though.

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gamecreator
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by gamecreator » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:09 am

I would advise removing any mods that rely heavily on entities or tile entities (as it's the main source of lag). From the list ones I know about are Agricraft, Bibliocraft, Carpenter's Blocks, ComputerCraft, Forge Multipart(the biggest lag machine of all mods), Pam's Harvestcraft, Thaumcraft. Probably Botania too, as there are individual mana pools for each block. PneumaticCraft and Roguelike Dungeons are ones to watch out for if you plan on adding other mods. Applied Energistics is somewhat controversial since it potentially reduces number of other tile entities present (chests, pipes etc.); I haven't tried AE2, but from the looks of it, it became much worse.
Basically, any blocks that carry complex/compound data or have complicated/custom rendering or consist of parts are most likely tile entities. Harvestcraft also likes making all crops into tile entities for no apparent reason (no, vanilla crops are not tile entities).

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BadgeAddict
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:26 am

So one thing to point one here is that we had a server together a couple years ago and played FTB: unleashed on it with 1gb or less of ram....we did have a little lagging but now we're bumping up to 8gb of RAM.

Mort: Thanks for those references, we'll look into something along those lines.

Here is a running list of mods we are planning on adding, maybe adding and not adding. And as before, we are open to hearing what you think may need to be added/removed. As for lagging issues, we'll deal with them if/when we get to that point. Thanks again so much for all of your comments so far. :)

NAME:

YESÔÇÖs:
Advanced Solar Panels
AOBD 2 (Supporting Code)
Applied Energistics 2
INpureCore (Support)
Baubles
BiblioCraft
BiblioWoods BoP
BiblioWoods Forestry
BiblioWoods Natura
Big Reactors
CodeChickenCore
CodeChickenLib
CoFH Core
Dense Ores
EnderIO
Extra Utilities
Fastcraft
FastLeafDecay
Forestry
Forbidden Magic
Gravitation Suite
Hats
Hat Stand
Headcrumbs
Nuclear Control
iChunUtil
IndustrialCraft 2
Inventory Tweaks
Iron Chests
JABBA
Mantle
MineFactory Reloaded
MobiusCore
Morpheus
Natura
Nether Ores
Not Enough Items
NEI Integration (Support)
Pam's HarvestCraft
Railcraft
Runic Dungeons (Dungeon Dimension)
Springboards
Thaumcraft 4
Thaumic Energistics
Thaumic Exploration
Thaumic Tinkerer
Thermal Dynamics
Thermal Expansion 4
Thermal Foundation
TiC Tooltips
Tinker's Construct
ExtraTiC (Support)
Tinker's Mechworks
ttCore
Twilight Forest
Witchery

MAYBEÔÇÖs:
Agricraft
AromaBackup
Biomes O' Plenty (Heavy RAM Use)
Buildcraft
Buildcraft Compat
Not Enough Keys
RF Tools
Thaumcraft NEI Plugin


NOÔÇÖs:
Aroma1997Core
BDLib
Binnie's Mods
Blood Magic
Botania
Carpenter's Blocks
ChickenChunks
Chisel 2
ComputerCraft
Custom Main Menu
Decocraft
Draconic Evolution
EnderStorage
EnderTech
EnderZoo
Forge Multipart
Funky Locomotion
Gendustry
Infinibows
JourneyMap
Logistics Pipes
Magic Bees
MineTweaker 3
Mystcraft
Enables the creations of a multitude of new dimensions.
NEI Addons
Not Enough Resources
OpenBlocks
OpenModsLib (Support)
OpenPeripheralAddons
OpenPeripheralCore
OpenPeripheralIntegration
Opis
Project Red
MrTJPCore (Support)
Redstone Arsenal
Portal Gun
Resource Loader
Simply Jetpacks
Solar Expansion
Steve's Carts 2
Steve's Factory Manager
Steve's Workshop
Translocators
Waila
Waila Harvestability
Wawla
WR-CBE

Note: After some testing on running it, source codes may need to be added in which were previously not included, etc.

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M0rtimer
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by M0rtimer » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:37 am

HEAVILY disagree with what gamecreator is saying. Yes, of course more entities requires more resources. By that logic however, strip everything you have straight back down to vanilla, since every single mod is going to reduce performance. Tile entities are not that bad you should blanket ban a mod that uses any. Especially not amazing in-depth mods like Thaumcraft or botania.

Besides, these blocks only become an issue when they're actively being overused- And even then, in my experiences the issues these bring are mostly client-side, with little to no actual effect on the server. As in, if you're near an area with a LOT of these, you might encounter issues. Soon as you're away from them, you're fine. So if you litter your own base in them, that'd be your own choice and fault.

But even then, the only mods that really bring entities in such quantities that they could cause noticeable issues are carpenter's blocks, forge multipart and perhaps bibliocraft... But each of these allow things that would otherwise be impossible, so I wouldn't just blanket ban any of them. In my eyes, the proper method is allow it->punish abusers and then only if it really becomes an issue remove it.

The only thing on the mods you've listed I'll give you is forge multipart, since that one is indeed intensive. Even then, with 8 GB dedicated ram and moderate use it should honestly be fine.

Anyways, to move on to the list of mods... I'd definitely add buildcraft since it's still one of the conerstones of modded minecraft, but likely disable some of the machines such as the quarry.

Chickenchunks: Pretty much what I've said already
Blood magic: Any reason why this is not added? It's one of the more popular magic mods- Although some of the tools/rituals can probably be considered dangerous for server use.
Botania: Unless there's another reason for not adding it besides what's listed above, I would add it. It's one of the best current magic mods, imo.
Carpenter's blocks: I'd honestly add this. It allows you to do decorations that would otherwise be impossible, such as making slopes or stairs of any kind. With 8 GB there shouldn't be an issue with these, as they're pretty much used only as "finishing touches"...
Decocraft: Based on what I said above I wouldn't remove it just because it "might" cause lag, but on itself I don't think it's that great a decorative mod for me to say much about it.
gendustry: Look, I don't play bees if gendustry is not an option. Then again, I likely won't play bees even IF gendustry is an option...
Mystcraft: Yeah, good choice not allowing this. Although, what you could do is enable it, which would give you as admin easy opportunity to make multiple worlds, then disable the feature for regular users. Optionally, the books could also be used as players as a way to teleport between existing worlds (other mods are available).
Openblocks: Openblocks is pretty much a mish-mash of a lot of different blocks with different functionalities, but I know for a fact it's a mod I always end up using... Any reason you're disabling it?
Simply jetpacks: Not a mod I really use, but considering I know lots of people do for the early game at least, any reason for this?

Also no y no waila :( (Is that enabled client side only..?)

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gamecreator
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by gamecreator » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:57 am

M0rtimer wrote:HEAVILY disagree with what gamecreator is saying. Yes, of course more entities requires more resources. By that logic however, strip everything you have straight back down to vanilla, since every single mod is going to reduce performance. Tile entities are not that bad you should blanket ban a mod that uses any. Especially not amazing in-depth mods like Thaumcraft or botania.
I don't suggest to ban all mods that use tile entities, that's just ridiculous. But you have to consider benefits and drawbacks of each mod.
Take for example Thaumcraft: a nice magic mod with lots of functionality, but with very crappy implementation. Rendering of TC blocks is just horrendous. I doubt there was any optimization done regarding mod logic as well. Result: put blocks in a chest, construct-use-deconstruct structures when needed.
I hope Botania is much better done.
M0rtimer wrote: Besides, these blocks only become an issue when they're actively being overused- And even then, in my experiences the issues these bring are mostly client-side, with little to no actual effect on the server. As in, if you're near an area with a LOT of these, you might encounter issues. Soon as you're away from them, you're fine. So if you litter your own base in them, that'd be your own choice and fault.
Yes, rule of thumb is avoid using tile entities if possible. But next to no people follow it (because they can not be bothered). As for client-side - yes, but what use is a server without people playing? And if you seclude yourself somewhere far away to avoid lag, then what's the point in multiplayer?
BadgeAddict wrote:Here is a running list of mods we are planning on adding, maybe adding and not adding. And as before, we are open to hearing what you think may need to be added/removed. As for lagging issues, we'll deal with them if/when we get to that point. Thanks again so much for all of your comments so far. :)
I would recommend AromaBackup. Extremely useful, even as just-in-case measure. You might want to configure it though.
Blood Magic might be buggy about how it stacks items, but otherwise an awesome magic mod I highly recommend.
MineTweaker is useful if you want to add some custom recipies.
OpenBlocks has some useful and often irreplaceable utility blocks.
Opis is extremely useful for resolving lag problems. Not the mod to be included on any regular basis though.
I don't have experience with Steve's Factory Manager, but it's widely regarded as a very low-lag automation mod.
Also check for any unnecessary core mods in your list.

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:41 am

I'll let you know when the server is up, though it may force me to buy a new laptop that has the necessary RAM...luckily, you can buy a really good laptop with 8gb of RAM for less than 500$ these days.

My brother understand the setup of servers much more extensively then I do, so it'll come down to whenever he has time to set it up. Hoping that this happens in the next few weeks.

Nerre
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Nerre » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:44 pm

While you can discuss a lot of what is fine and what is not, there are some that can be pointed out as bad for the server, just judging by mathematical and IT facts, not going by flavour and personal preference.

For example, you should remove all mods that include clocks. Those keep each and every chunk containing a clock activly loaded in the servers memory all the time, which really, really can slow down a server. I noticed a server where an admin accidentally KILLED the server save file by trying to do a performance test by adding huge amounts of clocks using world edit mods. He accidentally misstyped a number and added so many, that the server was unable to even initially load the safe file into an editor. He had to use a backup from (luckily) only one day ago.
Just warning you about this, clocks are serious shit and can do much more damage than slow a server down. They even can make a save file corrupt.

Almost the same if you add too many entities (like animals or light sources), it too can bring down the server, the save file, or at least the client cause it cannot render the area. (but those are a bit more harmless, as you can rid an area of those by using world edit tools).

And really, you should at least consider one method of securing what players build, even if you do not want to add a protection. At least install LockBlock then, so you can restore areas easily.
Punishing a Griever does not help the victim in any way.

Just to get this clear: You want to use a computer plugged into your internet line as a server rather than renting one? I really hope you got a good connection with a lot of bandwith. Most people/teams that started a server rented server capacity on a commercial server farm. They do a lot of the backup and maintenance stuff for you, and you normally get a lot more bandwith than with just a normal household permanent line.

@Mortimer: Some of the mods blow up the safe file cause the blockinfo in the stored chunks lies on the save file on the server. The client has to load the graphics and render it, yes, but the server has to prepare all the info of the chunk. If there are not 255 or 2x255 possiblities of what a block can be, but 8000+ (I think somebody mentioned that number), your traffic and server file and the amount of date it has to process is about 12 times as huge. Just think of having binary, but now imagine a computer based on a hexadecimal system instead. Each "atom" would not be a 0 or 1, but a 0 or 1 or 2 or 3 ...or 15, which is 8 times as much. Same happens if each block can be massively more than just the vanilla blocks.
:zzz:

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gamecreator
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by gamecreator » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:32 am

Nerre wrote:For example, you should remove all mods that include clocks. Those keep each and every chunk containing a clock activly loaded in the servers memory all the time, which really, really can slow down a server.
Not really. While clocks do slow down the server tremendously when loaded, they don't necessarily act as chunk loaders. Usually mods have just a couple of clock blocks, which can be easily disabled or configured.
Nerre wrote:Almost the same if you add too many entities (like animals or light sources), it too can bring down the server, the save file, or at least the client cause it cannot render the area. (but those are a bit more harmless, as you can rid an area of those by using world edit tools).
Light sources are not entities and don't affect performance in any way. It might seem that they do, but in reality this is caused by changes, for example a block being moved, placed or broken, light levels changing, liquids spreading etc. This is the main reason for clocks affecting performance, as there are usually some contraptions connected to them. And speking of moving blocks, moving tile entities (hello, ComputerCraft) can turn the game into unplayable rather quickly. This is the reason why pistons can not move them.
Nerre wrote:If there are not 255 or 2x255 possiblities of what a block can be, but 8000+ (I think somebody mentioned that number), your traffic and server file and the amount of date it has to process is about 12 times as huge.
The total number of blocks has no effect on the server whatsoever. Block id and metadata have fixed range and the amount of data transferred would always be the same, no matter how many and what blocks are placed in the world. What really increases amount of data is entities and tile entities. And your render distance determines how many chunks the server would send you (but not less than 21 by 21 area centered on player IIRC, which corresponds to render distance 8 plus 2 chunks of a buffer).
On the other hand the client may become significantly slower the more blocks you add, as it has to keep all textures in memory and render these blocks.

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:48 am

We will be renting a server and we will be taking the cost of this upon ourselves.
Again, as I said before, If you would like to help by donating some money toward that cost, we won't stop you, but we also aren't asking for donations.

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:22 am

Update on this project, still happening, there is a lot of work being done, collecting mods, installing, making sure they work together properly.

We will be adding, in addition to the majority of Infinities Mods the following:
Trophy
MoÔÇÖ Creatures
Iguana Tweaks
Compact Machines
chocolate quest
Flans mod

^Even with some of these additions, many of the advanced machines will be locked out of crafting initially...most likely....I mean...come on...there are tanks..

If any of you would like to suggest any other mods which are not listed here or in the FTB: Infinity pack, please do, we will be adding several.

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Nerre » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:27 pm

Do you have an estimated date for the server start? Curious but don't want to check this thread every day. :D
:zzz:

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:24 am

Unfortunately I don't have a strict timetable. A lot of the finer details of setting up the server are the duties of my brother who is more capable than myself. I will send a PM to all of the people who expressed interest here as well a post here. That way you won't need to constantly check back here to see if anything has happened yet.

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Nerre » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:57 pm

Thanks in advance. Curious what you come up with. If you want some startup help for the entrance area, pm me. :)
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:42 pm

Great news, its finally ready.

long story: the initial server that we got was a piece of crap, so we got a new one which worked perfectly on the second try.

We're using FTB: Infinity 1.8.2 (newest)
We will be whitelisting only, not going public. Incoming players will be vetted by either myself or my brother. Not going full public and being whitelisted means that the majority of players who want to grief only won't even have access to this world, and players who are somehow let in but then grief anyways can be deleted off of said list. Creativity will not be given out and neither he or me will be using it, but rather our approach will be more the more natural way of mining all of the resources we need to build the empire we want.

If you would like to join, pm me your minecraft name and we'll get you on the list as well as sending you the name and ip address.

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Nerre » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:03 pm

PS to the PM: Do I have to install anything on clientside, or are those all serverside mods?
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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:55 pm

you have to run FTB launcher. Modpack = Infinity

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Nerre » Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:00 am

Installing...
:zzz:

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by Nerre » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:09 am

Seems your massive mod pack is a bit too much for my old pc. Java run out of space when only 4/7 of the game reparing was done.
Sigh.Got 2 gig ram but seems I cannot play until there is a trick to get this started nonetheless.
:zzz:

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by BadgeAddict » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:37 am

Java has special settings within Minecraft. You may want to search google on "increasing java ram within minecraft".

The thing is, java only allocates maybe 1gb to MC initially, I upped mine to 6, and i have 8. Since when using MC you don't really use anything else, you could put it up to 1.5gb of ram...this might help...

the other option is saving up for a new laptop, after asking your wife for permission to make a "large" purchase....at least thats what i had to do. :D

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Re: MineCraft is Coming....again...

Post by gamecreator » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:03 am

Nerre wrote:Got 2 gig ram
From my own experience I can say this: no heavily modded MC for you. You will most likely need Optifine to run anything modded. And with that much RAM you likely have 32-bit OS, so Java can only allocate no more, than 1420 Mb. And Minecraft accepts memory only in increments of 512 Mb, so maximum you would be able to enforce is 1 Gb (which happens to be default IIRC, but it doesn't hurt to enforce it anyway). You would have to restart the game often. The heaviest modpack I was able to run is Agrarian Skies (I haven't tried AS 2), but it was barely playable. I had to make a heavy use of Opis (which for some reason doesn't like when java memory goes over the limit) and optimize anything I build in the world for performance (hence my hate for Thaumcraft (and Pneumaticcraft - I played Crash Landing too)).
But even if you have 64-bit OS, don't get your hopes up. Any Windows other than Windows XP, would likely take too much RAM all by itself, which would leave you at the same 1 Gb with all resulting limitations described above.
Oh, and don't forget to kill MC launcher every time you run Minecraft, because it hangs in the background, taking additional 300+ Mb. Close every application you can as well.

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