CTF Game 1 Turn 11 Game Over MVP Vote Closed

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M0rtimer
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 6

Post by M0rtimer » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:25 am

Also Pats, I'm sorry but while I completely approved of your action OOC-wise, we are now live-long arch-enemies. :roll:

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 7

Post by SeeAMoose » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:56 pm

Turn 7, part 1. Score: 1-5.

Image

Mines stands back up slowly after suffering a brutal tackle last turn. The other two blues sprint in opposite directions as Dreamer races for the flag square while Runs tries to race straight for the Red flag.
Pats advances further into blue territory earning 1xp as No Name reaches the flag square earning another point for his team. Righteous stands around for a moment spacing out... until his captain shouts from across the field "Righteous, get moving and guard our flag!"

Turn 7, part 2. Score: 1-6.
Image

Mines moves to cover the route back to Red territory. Pats advances to the flag row, earning another xp for himself. Dreamer finishes his sprint to the flag square, just in time to see the opposing defender pick up the flag. "So wavy and blue! Righteous, guard against that sprinting blue, I'm coming back with their flag." Righteous dutifully obeys as Runs sprints straight into him.
► Show Spoiler

Righteous successfully halts Runs's advance, earning yet another point for the Red team and 2 more xp for himself. Thus continuing the blue's string of bad luck.


Blue Team
Mines Flags: 2xp
Dreamer: 3xp, Suffers a 5% penalty for sprinting and cannot sprint for 2 turns.
Bravely Runs Away 3 xp, Suffers a 5% penalty for sprinting and cannot sprint for 2 turns. Must respawn in the blue's home row.

Red Team

Has No Name 4xp,
Pats Dragons 7xp
Righteous Charger - 5xp

Next moves due by 8:00PM EST on Thursday (about 46 hours from now). However, if I get all of the moves by tomorrow evening I will update then. Also, I've decided to start using BotWalter in the Ustream chat to conduct the rolls in case anyone is interested in chatting while I'm working on updates (or just interested in seeing the rolls).
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 7

Post by SeeAMoose » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:47 pm

Missing one move, if I get it before I go to bed I'll update tonight, otherwise tomorrow.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by SeeAMoose » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:30 pm

Sorry for the delay, I went over this one a couple of times trying to figure out how to handle it.
► Show Spoiler
Turn 8, part 1. Score: 1-8.

Image

Mines runs across to the far side of the field while Righteous sprints down the other. Dreamer tries to guard to prevent No Name from escaping with the flag, but Runs spawns next to him and
Pats tackles into him to let his captain escape.
► Show Spoiler


Pats wins! He earns a point for his team for winning the tussle, another point for reaching the flag square, 1 xp for himself (for the tackle), and he extends the Blue's extraordinary string of bad luck.

Turn 8, part 2. Score: 1-8.
Image

Mines crosses over into Red territory... maybe going for a flag run himself? Pats stands victorious as Dreamer stands up. No Name advances towards his side as Righteous moves to meet him and Runs moves to cover him.


Blue Team
Mines Flags: 2xp
Dreamer: 3xp, Cannot sprint for 1 turn.
Bravely Runs Away 3 xp, Cannot sprint for 1 turns.

Red Team

Has No Name 4xp,
Pats Dragons 9xp (forgot to add 1xp for advancing last turn.
Righteous Charger - 6xp

Next moves due by 8:00PM EST on Saturday (about 45 hours from now). However, if I get all of the moves by tomorrow evening I will update then. Also, in the past we've played with the rule that a team gets points for a flag capture the moment they cross over the center line. Given the utter rout this is turning into, and in the hopes of making things a little bit more interesting, I would like to rule that the flag must remain on your side at the end of the turn with at least 1 person from your team standing in the square (either holding it or just standing next to it) for the remainder of this game. I would like to see this game continue at least a little bit longer if the majority of the Red team is alright with it. Please post whether or not you are okay with this plan.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by Krulle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:54 am

SeeAMoose wrote:Turn 8, part 1. Score: 1-8.

Image

Mines runs across to the far side of the field while Righteous sprints down the other. Dreamer tries to guard to prevent No Name from escaping with the flag, but [ h i g h l i g h t=#000000]Runs[/highlight] spawns next to him and
Pats tackles into him to let his captain escape.
► Show Spoiler


Pats wins! He earns a point for his team for winning the tussle, another point for reaching the flag square, 1 xp for himself (for the tackle), and he extends the Blue's extraordinary string of bad luck.
Question: Red had two players in the same square (one tackling me, and one moving out.
Did the one moving out (No Name) got to move out before any tackling? Whithout any rolls? Then he should have been gotten by my defending. (I was aiming for No Name. So it would be weird for No Name to have left the square BEFORE Pats tackles me.)
Because I was expecting a penalty for red in this case.... (which, seeing the roll, would not have changed anything).

Just a question.

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:31 am

Considering how badly things have been going for the other team, I certainly don't mind to do a few things so they aren't left horribly behind. Both sides should be having fun after all. With that being said... On one hand I'd like some clarification on what exactly you're proposing first, and secondly I want to express why I can't help feeling slightly irked by it.

Let me start by giving feedback on respawning in an occupied square first, though. I suppose I can understand, to a certain extent wanting to change that ruling... But by doing so you're also taking away a major aspect of tactical play in which a team could "lock down" part of the field. That's part of the reason why we did what we did last turn. You're also putting the attacking team in a far more difficult situation by allowing this, and attacking IS harder than defending.

One thing though- (even if it's too late to change now and I'm not going to complain about it...) It should at the very least NOT be allowed to respawn in the flag square while it's occupied. Notwithstanding we managed to seemingly capture it, a flag run is VERY hard to pull off, and if we had failed but a single roll on our way to that flag we would have failed. If you'd allow the opposing team to respawn in an occupied flag square, they're almost guaranteed to get another, heavily penalized hit in on the enemy attacker. Or at the very least, as is currently the case, good odds to get in a hit...

Anyways that being said, to what you're proposing... What exactly are you meaning with it? Because if it is what I think it sounds like, while I do want the other team to leave with more than they have now, I'm pretty sure I don't like it and I definitely don't think it's the way to go. The way you make it sound, what is happening is... You're removing any bonus that we might have gotten from the flag (no? yes?), and then one of us has to stay behind to continue guarding that flag..? I'm sorry, but that very much feels like we're being penalized for pulling off something that is rather hard to do. Not to mention, it's just one that gets the major disadvantage as the way you make it sounds, he gets hooked up to the flagpole with ball and chain, while the others can continue to do what they want... Potentially even get some more advancement exp as that is reset upon a flag capture. So that's probably what irks me most, in that arbitrary one of us would need to sacrifice himself for the team... And what would the point even be? Allow them to recapture their flag which is not supposed to be something that's possible..? At what point would we actually get the flag bonus..?

So definitely not in favor of it, firstly because it seems like a very lopsided and rather unfair approach to the whole issue (Not between teams necessarily, but within the own team as once again one needs to sacrifice himself) and secondly this is a rather abrupt example with no clear defined rules leaving everyone (or me, at least) confused as to what the exact terms are, and you likely need to think up rules on the spot on how exactly to handle it.

Of course, it's possible I'm just completely wrong on my interpretation - In which case feel free to correct me on it.

There's also the very big point if you we should be asking ourselves if this is a thing we actually want to do - Giving a team an advantage because they're losing. Like I said, looking at the current state I want to give them some more exp/ points as well, but you don't start giving penalties to a team because they're winning in a sports game. Besides that, let's say we do just that, and then suddenly lady luck makes a 180 degree turn and turns on us, making them win - Would they feel very fulfilled anyways..? It's not like only lady luck is to blame either. I admit some more rolls should have gone in their favor, but if you go and actually look, you'll see that from everything so far our team managed to manipulate the rolls to such extent that 4 out of 6 rolls total (+1 neutral) were in our favor - Of the two rolls in their favor I believe it was a max bonus of 10%, while some of ours had massive bonuses. So while we've definitely been having good rolls, and at least some of them should have gone your way... You can't blame only lady luck. :shrug:

If you must, I would simply advice to reduce the amount of points a flag run gains this one time to allow the other side to catch up at least slightly, assuming the dice actually want to show some sympathy. But I must admit that if a flag run ends up being a disadvantage rather than a boon, I will be very disappointed... (Especially since I don't really see the benefit for the other team more than the disadvantage for one member of the own team - I mean, the one player having to protect his flag could still defend it and he'd have home advantage...)

@Krulle: If someone in the square you're defending/tackling is doing a hostile action of their own (aka defending/tackling) you cannot target anyone else that might be in that square that is not doing a hostile action of their own. Hence it can be used to cover your allies. So yes, you would have been able to guard against me had Pats not tackled into the square, which is why he did exactly that.

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by Krulle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:10 am

That I know, but why did you not receive a penalty for having two players in the same square (as I was penalised for someone spawning) - he may have spawned after our tussle).

(With that roll it would not have changed anything, but... yeah, I just want to know why the rules are laid out like that...)

Regarding rolls:
the D20 rolls have been:
8 (turn 3), 7,10 (turn 4), 19,20 (turn 6), 15 (turn 7),
18 (BotWalter)
That looks evenly distributed enough to me. Felt differently,....
Q: how do you decide who gets the lower part and who the upper part of teh dice? By teams (Team one always 1-X, team 2 always (X+1)-20)?



I do not want any changes. We had bad luck in rolls (except maybe get the other side of the dice, as the dice seems to have a slight preference for the higher numbers; the 7,8, and 10 are within the range of bonus adjustments), and we made some bad decisions on how to move. I might want to check the XP for advancements later, but I don't really care. It's a game. And I see this game as learning experience on how to approach the game and which moves can be successful.

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:30 am

Ah, yeah I understand. I think it's determined by where you end your turn rather than where you start or any other factor. So since you two ended the turn on the same square you got a penalty, while we didn't.

And yes, each side of the dice always correlates to one team - So we currently got the top while you guys got the bottom part. But yeah - We actually managed to push a lot of the earlier rolls enough into our favor that the rolls that went to your side actually got successes, and then we got particularly lucky in the last few rolls...

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by Patdragon » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:22 am

Sounds a little like the ruling I got about cheering. If I want to cheer someone who is tackling, it is the tackled square that get the bonus.
I asked which square I needed to be in (1 or 2) to effect the defender.
xxxx
x12x
xTDx

Mort ruled i'd need to be in square 2 to add my cheer to the D square tussle. So that would mean you check for cheering bonus after the tackle move, and I guess multiple players too.

Of course that does make the odd encounter of if D also tackles to T it was stated the winner of the tussle who wins the square, which mean the bonuses could be confusing there,

edit:- 1 . So an example in this case would have been if dreamer decided to tackle south, instead of guard. Who ever won the tussle would have had a penalty from their fellow team mate. So i guess this is where a pure dice roll comes into to see who acts first.

edit:- 2 forgot to add about flag crossing the line, but for this game, it should as we thought the flag rules were. Especially if we're going to discuss the informal rules after the game. I know i've already asked for a few times for clarification on some point or another that some people just know as an informal rule from old games.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:04 am

To be honest, pretty much everything is mentioned in the rules. The only reason I "remembered" that rule was because I went on a small nostalgia trip going through old ctf games, and I noticed NSO mentioning the rule in question. And main reason I was asking was so I could adjust my strategies if it turned out not to be the case... Although it didn't matter much, honestly.

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by SeeAMoose » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:20 am

Okay, that's a lot to respond to... for good reason. First as to my proposed rule, it would give the blue team an opportunity to tackle A4 and prevent a capture, that is assuming they want to do such a thing. Thinking about it further, I think it was a mistake to add after already changing the spawning rule. So let's forget the proposed rule and leave things where they stand. The first rule change already gives them a chance to stop you, that's enough to give them a chance to not be practically shut out.

You are also right that wasn't fair of me to switch the spawning ruling without telling you, the problem was that it wasn't explicitly in the rules and I couldn't get an updated move from noland in time. Given that had I not made those changes the blues would have precisely 0 chance of stopping your capture attempt, I am willing to give you all 3xp regardless of whether your capture succeeds, in recognition of your superior tactics on this flag run.

With regards to why Dreamer wasn't able to prevent No Name from getting away, it's because Pats became the primary target when he tackled into the square.
Multiple targets: If more than one opponent is avaliable when a tussle starts, the opponents that are doing agressive actions (Guarding, landing a tackle) are targetted before passive actions (running, sprinting, moving part of tackle, cheering or standing around). If several targets have the same priority (like two guarders in the same square) the initiator gets to choose (random if they don't choose).
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by M0rtimer » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:03 am

Well, not 0% - I was very much afraid that Mines would see the potential of me trying to run through bottom and tackle into A2, or that he'd defend there and might be able to hold me back... But that seems agreeable. :)

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by Krulle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:02 pm

SeeAMoose wrote:With regards to why Dreamer wasn't able to prevent No Name from getting away, it's because Pats became the primary target when he tackled into the square.
Multiple targets: If more than one opponent is avaliable when a tussle starts, the opponents that are doing agressive actions (Guarding, landing a tackle) are targetted before passive actions (running, sprinting, moving part of tackle, cheering or standing around). If several targets have the same priority (like two guarders in the same square) the initiator gets to choose (random if they don't choose).
That was only part of my question. My question was why blue did not receive a penalty for having two players in the same square... He tackles in to catch me, but I would have caught the flag carrier if he hadn't, so the flag carrier must be in the same square when the tussle happened.

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by SeeAMoose » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:52 pm

Still missing two moves, I do have the captain moves, but I've been out since 10 hanging with my cousin for his birthday and I am wiped out. I will update in the morning with whatever moves I have.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by Patdragon » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:27 am

Waits patiently to see if his lucky xp gaining streak continues.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 9

Post by SeeAMoose » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:31 am

Turn 9, part 1. Score: 2-8.

Image

Mines advances further into Red territory as Runs to move forward as well. Righteous guards No Name's path with the flag. Pats tries to prevent Dreamer from moving forward to support his teammates.
► Show Spoiler


Dreamer wins! He earns a point for his team for winning the tussle, 1 xp for himself, and finally breaks the Blue's extraordinary string of bad luck.

Turn 9, part 2. Score: 3-13.
Image

Mines reaches the Red's home row, earning more xp for himself. Pats stands up as Dreamer advances. Runs tries desperately to keep No Name from scoring, but finds Righteous guarding his retreat.
► Show Spoiler
Runs wins! He earns a point for his team, and 2xp for winning the tussle and sending Righteous home... however there's nothing he can do to prevent No Name from escaping with the flag. No Name scores, earning 5 points for his team, and 3 xp for everyone on the Red team who was involved in the capture... which happens to be everyone!

Blue Team
Mines Flags: 3xp
Dreamer: 4xp
Bravely Runs Away 5 xp

Red Team

Has No Name 7xp
Pats Dragons 12xp (must return to his side before earning more advancement xp)
Righteous Charger - 9xp, Cannot sprint for 1 turn. Must respawn in his home row next turn.

Next moves due by 8:00PM EST on Monday (about 32 hours from now).
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by M0rtimer » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:37 am

(Righteous would have gotten a 5% penalty for guarding on the same square again, but it matters little. :P)

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by SeeAMoose » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:44 am

Actually that's only if he guarded in it last turn, you can guard for both... wow I have read that rule wrong the entire time I played this game, I guess that comes from playing as an attacker and not a defender :P Err... I mean I totally knew that :paranoia:

Fixed the update. Also, technically he only said he guarded once, I think it's pretty clear that he wanted to guard for the duration of the retreat so that's what I used. However, it would helpful to me if everyone included what they did for both parts of their turn.

So in Mines's case instead of saying Mines moves to C6, say Mines moves to C6 via C5, or Mines moves to C5 and then to C6. It just makes it a little bit easier for me to update quickly.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 9

Post by Krulle » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:03 am

How did righteous guess that Runs would not attack A2, but hope for an escape from A2?

I was very sure Righteous would tackle A2 to prevent Runs from tackling the flag carrier there...

:applauds!:
:clap:
Last edited by SeeAMoose on Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Or not... apparently it won't show the smilie >_<

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 9

Post by M0rtimer » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:10 am

We're using the american tactic...

If we don't know what we're doing ourselves, you surely can't anticipate our tactics! :P

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 9

Post by ChuckDaRighteous » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:21 am

Wait so guarding twice on a turn is enough to take a guard penalty? I thought it was per turn not per action. *shrug* didn't make a difference though.
Krulle wrote:How did righteous guess that Runs would not attack A2, but hope for an escape from A2?

I was very sure Righteous would tackle A2 to prevent Runs from tackling the flag carrier there...

:applauds!:
Lol, If you tackled A2, pat had a chance of stopping you and you got less in the way of tackle bonus. If you tackled a3 you got more bonus so hedged bets.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 9

Post by M0rtimer » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:27 am

I love how Moose edited Krulle's post and it's still the wrong code. :P

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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 9

Post by SeeAMoose » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:30 am

:clap: There we go! It is the right code but for whatever reason it won't work for me when I edit the post :wall:

By the way, awesome job by both teams, this was an exciting turn to make. I'm going to try something next turn with the visuals, we'll see if the game lasts long enough for me to really try this out. It'll take a couple of turns to set it up, so first person to guess (after next turn) gets 1 xp.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 8

Post by WearsHats » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:25 am

SeeAMoose wrote:Actually that's only if he guarded in it last turn, you can guard for both... wow I have read that rule wrong the entire time I played this game, I guess that comes from playing as an attacker and not a defender :P Err... I mean I totally knew that :paranoia:

Fixed the update. Also, technically he only said he guarded once, I think it's pretty clear that he wanted to guard for the duration of the retreat so that's what I used. However, it would helpful to me if everyone included what they did for both parts of their turn.

So in Mines's case instead of saying Mines moves to C6, say Mines moves to C6 via C5, or Mines moves to C5 and then to C6. It just makes it a little bit easier for me to update quickly.
And normally I would have. But there's only one possible path from C4 to C6.

Oh, wait. In the second paragraph, you were talking about the ambiguity of saying you were guarding without explicitly saying you're guarding twice. But in the third, you're saying that even if it's obvious which path you have to take, it's easier for you, when you're organizing the update, if it's clearly spelled out who is in exactly which square for each half of the turn. Same request, but for a different reason. Gotcha.
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Re: CTF Game 1 Turn 9

Post by SeeAMoose » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:35 am

Yep, sorry for not being more clear about that. It's just easier to know exactly what you're planning to do, because then I just have to plug it directly into my spreadsheet with no interpretation. It's a small thing but it does speed things up a bit because I don't have to compare your final position to the last update to figure out what you're doing.
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