A spell book.

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LAYF
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A spell book.

Post by LAYF » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:35 am

Thanks all...
but...

I've decided to go a slightly different way....
you can all see it here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/168775637/Rules

you are all more than welcome to help me out with scrolls do :)

or if you don't like PDF's: (but then you will not see the character sheet...)
► Show Spoiler


Hay everyone... so.. do any of you feel like helping me with making a HUGE spell book for the game that I'm currently making graphics for...

If I'm so lucky, then you can see some sample spells below.
Spells needs 4 things:
A Level
A Name
Two Schools (Sample schools: Fire, destruction, Ice, Arcane, Healing, Divine and Creation. Feel free to invent schools, but a school needs at least 3 spells in level 1)
and a description.

Thanks in advance

Spell book
Accepted spells wrote:
Level 1 Spells:
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Level 2 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Level 3 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Level 4 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Level 5 Spells:
► Show Spoiler




Spells under development wrote:
Level 1 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Level 2 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Level 3 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Level 4 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Level 5 Spells:
► Show Spoiler


Current Spell Schools wrote: Arcane
Creation
Destruction
Divine
Fire
Healing
Ice

-Best regards LAYF

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Re: A spell book.

Post by gamecreator » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:19 am

Ball Lightning - Level 4 Fire/Creation - Range: sight
Creates ball lightning, which moves in general direction of caster's choice, but may (and most probably will) deviate from it. Deals 1d(Power*Level) damage to target (ignores armour). It can be partially blocked. It can pass through very thin walls (windows, screens, curtains etc.). It is attracted to conductive materials. It is affected by air currents.

Death ray - Level 5 Healing/Destruction - Range: sight
Creates magical ray controlled by caster for Level rounds. Anything touching the ray has a chance of Power in (Power+10) to die instantly. Aim is affected by caster's accuracy. No spells can be cast while using death ray, but it can be interrupted by caster as free action. It can be blocked.

Regeneration - Level 2 Healing/Creation - Range: touch
Makes target regain their health by 1d(Level/4+1) for Power rounds.

Simulacrum - Level 4 Healing/Ice - Range: touch
Recreates any lost tissues and organs from ice. They will function as normal. Can restore lost health. Spell takes 10 rounds to cast. Created tissues are resistant to cold and vulnerable to heat (can be destroyed by powerful fire). If target was dead, it's recreated body goes under caster's control and caster must make concentration check every round they want simulacrum to act.

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ThroughTheWell
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Re: A spell book.

Post by ThroughTheWell » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:36 pm

It would help to know what the max spell level is. If there are only 5 spell levels, then a d&d spell level 9 is equivalent to a 5ht level spell, and generaly, it is divide by 2. In other words, people need to know where on the power scale a given spell goes.

But why create a new system when so many systems already exist? Odds are high, that beyond the 1st level, your spells will end up being unbalanced. Hell, many a d&d spell is unbalanced and they've been working on it for decades.

Aside from max spell level for scaling, we also need to know the feel of your campaign world. Is it generaly epic high magic, or generaly low magic? Is magic common or rare? Will the players reach max levels? Etc.
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Re: A spell book.

Post by LAYF » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:49 pm

Well...
levels:
1 to 5 so far, only rare mages every few generation is known to make more powerful magic but in theory no limit.
lvl is equal ant of DnD 0 and 1 lvl, and level 5 about 4-5 level DnD spells.
Characters that can cast spells can cast spells of their own level (so level 3 wizard can throw level 3 spells)
Characters only go up a level when a dungeon is completed.
In general, magicans are rare, but natural magic (uncontrolled I'll add) is common, including flying mountains spell warped creatures and much more.

hope that helps a bit.

About why a new system, because it's meant to be a fast system fit for Forums, so i have nothing against reuse of spells from other games, they just need to be rewritten to the simple system.
-Best regards LAYF

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ThroughTheWell
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Re: A spell book.

Post by ThroughTheWell » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:06 pm

LooksAtYouFunny wrote:Well...
lvl is equal ant of DnD 0 and 1 lvl, and level 5 about 4-5 level DnD spells.
Characters that can cast spells can cast spells of their own level (so level 3 wizard can throw level 3 spells)
Characters only go up a level when a dungeon is completed.
Let me rephrase what you just said. A d&d wizard able to cast 5th level spells is character level 9. You posit your players being equivalent to d&d 9th level wizards after 5 dungeons. That is rather fast and rather powerful. Just so you know what you are getting into.

I'll also say, in d&d, magic users (cleris, wizards, druids) already tend to overshadow other character classes. For reference see the Tier system. I'll be astounded if you have some method of allowing non-spell casting classes to remain relevant, particularly at your extreme accelerated leveling rate. Unless you let every player 'multiclass' to a spell caster, I just don't see how the other players will remain powerfull, relevant, or keep having fun. If anything, you need to slow spell caster's leveling down, and speed fighters, thieves, etc up.

It looks like you are about to exacerbate d&d class inequality.
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Re: A spell book.

Post by LAYF » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:23 pm

ThroughTheWell wrote:
LooksAtYouFunny wrote:Well...
lvl is equal ant of DnD 0 and 1 lvl, and level 5 about 4-5 level DnD spells.
Characters that can cast spells can cast spells of their own level (so level 3 wizard can throw level 3 spells)
Characters only go up a level when a dungeon is completed.
Let me rephrase what you just said. A d&d wizard able to cast 5th level spells is character level 9. You posit your players being equivalent to d&d 9th level wizards after 5 dungeons. That is rather fast and rather powerful. Just so you know what you are getting into.

I'll also say, in d&d, magic users (cleris, wizards, druids) already tend to overshadow other character classes. For reference see the Tier system. I'll be astounded if you have some method of allowing non-spell casting classes to remain relevant, particularly at your extreme accelerated leveling rate. Unless you let every player 'multiclass' to a spell caster, I just don't see how the other players will remain powerfull, relevant, or keep having fun. If anything, you need to slow spell caster's leveling down, and speed fighters, thieves, etc up.

It looks like you are about to exacerbate d&d class inequality.
I know its fast leveling, but, being a forum game it will still "feel" slow i think.. and will allow me to add a good deal of difference to dungeons.

about magic users being OP, the problem is that many players storm in with their spell casters, throws spells right and left and then just rest to regain spells.
the fact that each spell regaining rest will count as a "Day" in the game, and that days passing will lower the reward/chance of success and add to monsters in the dungeon, should help prevent this, and make spell-casters preserve their spells...
Also, many of the spells are going to be "low effect mass target" and "weakening" spells so the spell casters mostly weaken opponents and then the others can handle them...
-Best regards LAYF

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ThroughTheWell
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Re: A spell book.

Post by ThroughTheWell » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:49 pm

I agree that a forum game needs to be fast, but it does not necessarily have to end at high level. If you were to run this as a straight up d&d game, I doubt you'l let players hit level 9 after 5 adventures, even in a forum game. Shoot, in another 6 adventures they'd be epic. 11 to epic!

That is only 1 problem with casters. Another is versitility. Another is 'anything you can do I can do better', plus I can do all this other stuff that you can't do. Again, look at the Tier system and understnd the reasonSSSS beheind it. And looking at your spells, I already see versatility and power creaping in.

You think you are the first to try to impose a timelimit? For the power, they will rest, fort up a room, and love the extra XP they get from all of the extra monsters. That is unlikely to be a real solution. And if it is, then you've taken away the 'fun' of being a caster. Our mental image of casters is such that they are powerful and versitile and people will be disapointed if that turns out not to be the case, particularly when they are lead to believe it by all of the similar trapings and all of the similar penaltys. (Hey, I did not say balance was easy, I just said I think you are going about it wrong.)

Odd, the spells so far do not look either mass or weakening. If that is what you want, you need to seriously redo your spell list, and be very selective in what you pick from the d&d equivalents.
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Re: A spell book.

Post by LAYF » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:06 pm

Well.. since its 1 level up per adventure, they wont get any extra XP from extra monsters, and it will be wandering monsters, so no treasure either (or very little) NO! RAT'S DO NOT DROP GOLD
(sorry... but I had an argument with a player once who was angered that after killing 20+ rats he had not gotten one item, let alone even a single gold piece.. he was convinced that Prop chance was a thing....)
So that that's solved... and, I do know of Tier systems, but newer actually used it... (or maybe I have... but I've not read enough about it to understand it fully)

Our mental image of casters is such that they are powerful and versitile and people will be disapointed if that turns out not to be the case
That might be the case for some.. but I've had experience with people loving less powerful spell casters, simply for the flavor.. this is supposed to be role-play... not Diablo....

And yea.. I know.. not the best sample spells up there.. was also just a bunch i threw off the bat in less than 10 min.. mostly to show how a spell is build up.. maybe I should move it to suggestions instead of Done spells......


Hmm.. I don't know... might just stick with standard LSN/ECR system.... who knows...
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: A spell book.

Post by ThroughTheWell » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:39 pm

What are the stats to a character or monster? People need to know those in order to know what spells can buff or debuff. And maybe what your combat system is like too.

Spells that are more like what you say you want:
ray of exhaustion
ray of weakness
ray of fear
ray of clumsiness
-1AC
-1 action (on creatures with a minimum of 2 actions)
-1 strenght (i.e 1 dam less)

Level 2 or latter might bump some of those up to area effects. Level 2 might add 'buff other' type spells designed to make the fighter better, the thief better, but NOT turn the caster into either. Level 3 then could do the buff other for the rest of the party (excluding the caster). Maybe you give the caster detect magic, identify (with low odds, long time to cast, or repeated attempts possible), and dispel magic (low odds).

NONE of the spells I propose do direct HP damage. None of them open or lock doors or traps. No summons. No self buffs. No sleep, no grease, no glitterdust, etc. No item creation. No metamagic. Etc.

A low powered caster is either of low use in combat, is reduced to debuff bot like the cleric is a heal bot, or has the out of combat stuff (versatility without the power of stomping on fighter or thief toes.) You can't let them summon decent monsters. You can't let them polymorph. Etc. At some point you have to ask what do you want the caster to do, particularly if it is not helping the fighter.
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Re: A spell book.

Post by gamecreator » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:01 am

ThroughTheWell wrote:Our mental image of casters is such that they are powerful and versitile
Not really. Casters can be specialized. They can even be outpowered by non-casters. There are many ways caster can be. Maybe this "powerful and versatile" image was dictated to someone by D&D, but lets throw away delusions and think without prejudice.

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ThroughTheWell
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Re: A spell book.

Post by ThroughTheWell » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:26 am

gamecreator wrote:
ThroughTheWell wrote:Our mental image of casters is such that they are powerful and versitile
Not really. Casters can be specialized. They can even be outpowered by non-casters. There are many ways caster can be. Maybe this "powerful and versatile" image was dictated to someone by D&D, but lets throw away delusions and think without prejudice.
Gandalf
Merlin
Elric
and just about any fantasy story you care to name, even if it is not tied to the D&D franchise. I think it would be a much shorter, and much harder to come up with, list of actual low powered magic users in stories. And that list gets even smaller if I can exclude those where somone in the story does have awesome power. And, I bet that list gets even smaller if you look for stories where a non-caster hero overshadows and is more powerfull than the caster. And even if you can provide such a list and examples (I would like to see it), that does not negate the risk a new system of magic has of slipping into the situation I described.

Did you even LOOK at the spells proposed yet? A shield, likely as good or better than armor. Fireball, beats a stick any day. Guide strike, so the weak wizard can hit just as good as the experienced fighter. A couple more damage dealers, healing, messaging, and a battlefield control spell. All in level 1. Hell, the summon can probably set off traps for you.

I can't believe I'm having to argue the validity of the Tier system (a description of relative power and versatility) on a fantasy board.
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Re: A spell book.

Post by gamecreator » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:09 am

I don't argue about validity of tier system. How good spells are depends on average character and item stats. And numbers always can be corrected if GM wants (or doesn't want) to maintain mage/fighter balance.

Now about fantasy stories. That's the problem. Those are legendary people. They are supposed to be powerful. Player characters are supposed to be commoners. You don't see flocks of Gandalfs walking around in stories. If people just assume without reading rules or setting or anything that "My character is wizard. This means they are powerful and allmighty." as you describe, then that's their own fault.

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Re: A spell book.

Post by LAYF » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:34 pm

Oookaaay....

Now... one thing at a time.

I've looked up what the H. a tier system is.. and yes, I can clearly see its usefulness...

now... Heal bot, Buff bot and all the other bots... Thats a hellish thing that came along with games like WoW and the its evil siblings....
Yes.. I know it existed before that.. but seriously.. MMO's have really changed how many gamers looks at stuff...
A DnD Cleric is NOT a heal bot.. he is a very capable fighter AND spell caster, who happens to be able to heal better than anything... heck.. the Cleric is OP like hell in 3.5...
But to make him a heal bot is simply bad role play.. look at Durkan from OOTS or our own forgath, Both of them Clerics, so called heal bots, but healing is actuealy far from what you see them do the most... both fight and use a range of spells (yes, not so much Forgath as Durkan, but hes low level.. so) all (except one) of the players I've GM'ed befoer WoW played like that.. after WoW, more and more of THE OTHER players expected the cleric to just run around and heal (paladin and druid too)

Sadly.. same thing happened with spell casters, they believed that they could run around and throw spells left and right, jump into the middle of a fight and make destruction rain down, then just rest and do the same thing again... NO!

My point is....
This is not WoW..
-rest is once per day..
-rest last 8 hours.. so even if you COULD do it whenever you wanted, it would still be max 3 times a day.
-spell casters have a limited amount of spells to cast per day, and therefor CANNOT just run in and bomb everything right and left.
-spell casters have a limited amount of spells to cast per day, and therefor SHOULD consider if they want to use the spells that goes over others fields (such as Lock spells, high damage spells, and detection spells)
-spell casters have less health and damage resistance than other characters and far lesser attack capabilities.

-a warrior/barbarian/monk can keep fighting all day long.. dealing the same amount of damage constantly.
-a thief/assassin/rouge also deals a stable amount of damage (lower do) and can use tactics and abilities to deal more damage than any other characters in most games.
-a ranger/scout deals a nice amount of damage, does so at a distance and are among the most alert to anything around them BUT, must pay for their ranged attacks by using ammunition/magical ammunition.

-a spell caster can do all these things BUT, can only do it a limited amount of times and is weak as a paper bag when out of spells.



About fantasy stories:
-Night angel trilogy; relying on the magical abilities granted to him by a magical object costs the main character an arm and nearly kills him (actually kills him a few times)
-Age of the five: Many of the main characters are without magic, or with only weak magic yet have a HUGE role in the game. and all the most powerful magicians in the world are in hiding because they are not accepted by others due to their believes, because they KNOW that a sword would still kill them.
-King maker, king breaker: Main character avoids the use of his powers most of the time, and that's even do magic is common in the world.
-Buffy the vampire slayer: (yes, i went there) the good magicians are worth S"#¤ ... first whne Willow turns all dark and evil does the magic goes around.
-Merlin the series: Yes, he is powerful, yet he screws up all the time and must hide his powers because, the mundanes could beat him.
-Conan the barbarian (with the terminator) have you SEEN the magican? serious.. he's mental....
-Constantine (Comics, not film): Is a 3rd if not lower grade magician who only survives because he have a ton of friends to sacrifice, is stubborn as hell and can trick even trickster gods because of his wits. and STILL he gets beaten up near death in most of the films...

your examples:
Gandalf: He is directly made by the gods, not a born and raised wizard...
Merlin (Film): Half god raised in the old ways to prevent magic from dispersing from the wold.
Merlin (original folk lore): Mad bard who lived in the woods and abducted children (ate them in some stories)
Elric: is an Emperor in a world full of powerful magicians and wars raging constantly.. he NEEDS to be strong as F*** to keep his title.

All in all... lots of movies series portraits magicians as Powerful BUT weak at the same time....
And in my game, if magicians run in WoW or Diablo style.. they better hope they have some good team mates that will help them, if not.. they are done for...

so.... yea.... just had to get that out of the system.....
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: A spell book.

Post by thinkslogically » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:47 pm

...Yeah I also don't know what a tier system is and google isn't really helping. Can anyone explain?

Also LAYF, I left a comment on classes & healing over in the dungeon design thread (though it could have gone in here as well I suppose) based on a couple of observations about healing and the use of tellers in LSN / ECRs games. Just mentioning it in case you'd missed it since it may be relevant for you :)

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Re: A spell book.

Post by ThroughTheWell » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:55 pm

Sounds like you have a plan. Good luck.
► Show Spoiler
Thinks, here is 1 link to the Tier system: http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/bo ... pic=1002.0 Some casters are up at 1, fighters, rouges, thieves are down at 4. Exact ranking can be argued, but there is definately a gap, in d&d.
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Re: A spell book.

Post by LAYF » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:05 pm

Thanks Thinks.. I've seen it and responded :D

Thanks TTW.
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-Best regards LAYF

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Re: A spell book.

Post by LAYF » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:14 pm

Thanks all...
but...

I've decided to go a slightly different way....
you can all see it here:
HERE Is the pdf with the rules and is a DOC version.. you will get the most out of reading it as pdf... as its more nicely set up... and there is a character sheet if you want to print that and have your character handy...
IF you don't like the hellish slow connection Scribd gives, send Me PM with your Email and I'll just send it that way... OR read it here as text:
► Show Spoiler

And for character sheet, you can just use this version:
► Show Spoiler
-Best regards LAYF

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