Dungeon design and discussion

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RidcullyJack
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by RidcullyJack » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:19 am

Oh - on healing and healers: I've seen a (table) game run with collaborative feat-choosing. Sorry, I don't remember whether it was commercial or homebrew, but it was probably homebrew.
Players get to choose feats from a set list, with no duplication. A four-player game has 12 (small) feats to start the game; some are variants of healing, some are attack skills, other things as required. None of the feats do very much at this point. If a player wants to be a healer, they bargain for several heal feats; otherwise, they get shared around, but don't define any one player's character. Then at the next level, the same feats are available, with 4 more better ones. Players choose three again, allowing "extra level of feat" choosing.
(If I remember correctly, there was one annoying rule that if any feat was 'dropped' from the players' choices, no player was ever allowed to take that feat again - don't use that rule).

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by Borys » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:17 am

If there is book stand in the library, that requires standing, than I can understand lack of chair. I think it was common practice in Middle Ages.
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:56 pm

ThroughTheWell wrote:Those books are better, and at the edge of instant recognition. Avoid some of the obvious cut and pasted duplicate shelves, use green and black, and all your other colors (or at least more than the 3 used).
Thanks.
I see what you mean with the colors... but I'm not sure... maybe.... the cut/paste, yea.. there are only 2 different book cases.. will edit them individually in the actual game so no 2 are the same...
ThroughTheWell wrote:And why do you have that same blue book on it's side in the middle of the shelf!!! Stick it at least at the end as a book end, instead of in the middle. Who does it like that? :rant: Arg, my OCD is making me want to straighten up the shelves the right way, and kill the wizard that did it the wrong way. ;)
:lol: Well.. I don't think you want to see my book shelve.. the shelves of my old school or the shelves of most programmers I've visited :P
but okay... I'll fix that for some of them in game.. but not all.. there needs to be mess in an old dungeon... :P
ThroughTheWell wrote:For a library room I'd want a chair and table. Which if placed right would let you center the lamp too.
I do not see that as a necessary.. tables and chairs was not common in the middle ages.. and many cultures to this day still do not use chairs...
in a world full of elves, dwarfs and other beings, I'll expect it to be more common... (actually.. I don't thing I've ever seen a chair in an eleven city that was not made for either eating, guests or meetings)
Borys wrote:If there is book stand in the library, that requires standing, than I can understand lack of chair. I think it was common practice in Middle Ages.
That too.
thinkslogically wrote:
ThroughTheWell wrote::rant: Arg, my OCD is making me want to straighten up the shelves the right way, and kill the wizard that did it the wrong way. ;).
Hahahahaha! You know thanks to this comment I'll never be able to look at a messy pixel-art bookshelf ever again! But I like those bookshelves a lot better too - nice one LAYF.
Thanks :)

thinkslogically wrote:You can take or leave this, but for classes you could always just have each player start with a single Feat according to their class and then upgrade those skills in a limited way as the game progresses. Something like that can be both secret (so you can adjust the balance behind the scenes or mix things up a little if you have a better idea later) and pretty simple to implement while still giving the players individuality suited to their chosen class.

For example, an assassin might start off with a stealth ability which gives a bonus to back-attacks, could later learn how to make those attacks critical (for which I'd use an additive modifier, not a multiplicative one), and eventually learn to instakill individual enemies that were suitably beneath the PC in skill (e.g. kobolds would die, but not the end boss).
That is an idea I might look into.. thanks :)

thinkslogically wrote:With magic, you could have a system where magic attacks ignores the DEF score but doesn't hit particularly hard (e.g. 1-2 damage only). As the magician progresses the damage could increase or you could give them area effects instead (e.g. hits everyone within half a room -> hits only enemies within half a room). Artefacts and items are then available to you as DM to protect some enemies from modest amounts of magic damage in some way if you need to up the challenge of a particular bad guy.
That was my plan :) (or among my plans)

thinkslogically wrote:I think there's loads of scope to implement individuality and classes into a game, but I don't think they have to be hugely complex. Chances are your players will give you plenty of ideas for where they want to take their characters, so leaving a bit of room to adjust your plans will give them more control over how they play and will hopefully make for a better game.
I know... I have a bad tendency to over complicate things.. but with the idea from above (giving a starting power and then advance it...) I think i might be able to solve this..

thinkslogically wrote:EDIT: Oh! And one other thing I forgot to mention is healing. If you read the LSN / ECR games there's not a lot of love for the healers (tellers) and in The Island, none of the players who ended up being picked wanted the job at all because they didn't want to be the healbot. Spreading limited healing abilities amongst everyone can get round this problem I think and eases the load on one person having to babysit while everyone else runs around adventuring. It's not 'classic' RPG but I think it works better on a forum.
Yea... I know.... It does make me sad.. but its true... I think I'll solve this by giving everyone a combat oriented healing ability, while the healers have hugely effective healing, but it'll only work out of combat...
RidcullyJack wrote:Oh - on healing and healers: I've seen a (table) game run with collaborative feat-choosing. Sorry, I don't remember whether it was commercial or homebrew, but it was probably homebrew.
Players get to choose feats from a set list, with no duplication. A four-player game has 12 (small) feats to start the game; some are variants of healing, some are attack skills, other things as required. None of the feats do very much at this point. If a player wants to be a healer, they bargain for several heal feats; otherwise, they get shared around, but don't define any one player's character. Then at the next level, the same feats are available, with 4 more better ones. Players choose three again, allowing "extra level of feat" choosing.
(If I remember correctly, there was one annoying rule that if any feat was 'dropped' from the players' choices, no player was ever allowed to take that feat again - don't use that rule).
This gives me an idea... Thank you :D
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:33 pm

So... trying to listen to all of you...

here is a new dungeon..

-its mini.. (in my opinion)
-many rooms have purpose..
-4(5) different enemies.. (the rats are in 2 sizes)
-Some have armor.
-different weapons.

here you go:

Image
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by ThroughTheWell » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:28 pm

You need 2 more sleeping chambers at least, and I suspect the chief wants his to be private. And, that seems to be an odd place for a trap. In other words, people don't tend to deadly trap thier house. They have to live there after all, and one mistake even in the secret bypass and you get a face full of razor. Hmm, the dining room could be larger too. Fortunately, you have the 'room' for the extra rooms.
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:21 pm

ThroughTheWell wrote:You need 2 more sleeping chambers at least, and I suspect the chief wants his to be private.
Remember, this is a dungeon. not an actual home, so only limited sleeping areas will be available as people sleep in shifts. (and the goblins would probably be forced to sleep on the floor)
ThroughTheWell wrote:And, that seems to be an odd place for a trap. In other words, people don't tend to deadly trap thier house. They have to live there after all, and one mistake even in the secret bypass and you get a face full of razor.
Again.. just a dungeon, designed to protect a Orc tribes treasure.
ThroughTheWell wrote:Hmm, the dining room could be larger too. Fortunately, you have the 'room' for the extra rooms.
it.. that.... I should just have left all this as one quote :P

But thanks :)

All that said... I'm done with the I first had in mind.. but i think it will work.

I'll upload a PDF.
but until that is done.. here it is in raw text..:

EDIT... here is the PDF: http://www.scribd.com/doc/168775637/Rules including a "character sheet"
if you don't like PDF's or Scribd, the Plain text is still here: but you wont get to see the "character sheet" then...
► Show Spoiler
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by ThroughTheWell » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:26 pm

13 'people' in 3 bed makes for some odd shifts. (4 goblins for floor sleeping, but 1 chief for ? sleeping.) And why is this NOT more homelike when the chief is right there? You have 1 or the other improbable scenario: chief is visiting just at the right time, chief sits at the treasure and rarely goes home for home sake, chief sits here because it's all here: food, gold, fighters, home ah, but home does not have home stuff.

Do it how you want.
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:38 pm

ThroughTheWell wrote:13 'people' in 3 bed makes for some odd shifts. (4 goblins for floor sleeping, but 1 chief for ? sleeping.) And why is this NOT more homelike when the chief is right there? You have 1 or the other improbable scenario: chief is visiting just at the right time, chief sits at the treasure and rarely goes home for home sake, chief sits here because it's all here: food, gold, fighters, home ah, but home does not have home stuff.

Do it how you want.
Sorry to ask.. but have you ever been at, or known someone who worked as a guard in a place where multiple people had to work at the same time and over longer periods. As a soldier, I have, several times and at different places and scenarios.

1/3rd number of beds are common. making shifts of 8 hours, fitting with sleep. even with a "boss" around. in this case, the goblins do not "count" and can sleep on the floor
there is ALWAYS a boss around if its important enough, and he is often placed closer to the important stuff than others.
Food is often available, bot ready made and food that must be made.

Sorry TTW, you know I appreciate your feedback, but this right here makes if feel more like complaining for the sake of complaining alone. That does make it less usefull or at least makes it less likely to be heard.

that said.. I finally made an outcast for more LSN/ECR'ish rules. A PDF version is here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/168775637/Rules including a "character sheet"
I think (hope) that you'll find that many of your concerns have actually been taken into note, and the system is very different from what the spell book looked like it would be....
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by thinkslogically » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:35 am

I really like that. It's small and relatively simple (not much in the way of puzzles or traps yet, but you don't want to show all your cards in a demo so fair play). I like the bear and each one of the rooms is different enough that it'll give your players a good sense of the place. For something that size, I would expect your players should be able to deal with it in a one-hit run (one 'day') and that it would probably take between 30-50 turns to complete (now watch me get that TOTALLY wrong). I also think you have enough 'realism' there as it is - minions are lucky to have beds at all really, and I also think adding rooms for the sake of it is pointless if they don't serve a direct purpose in the adventure. For a forum game rather than tabletop I think it's really important to have a challenge in every room of a dungeon or it just drags.

The only exceptions I make for that is when it's wilderness areas, but even then I'm not sure how well that really works. I like it to give a bit of context to a dungeon and to let the players have some prep time, but I've got a lot more lurkers watching LotMK since they entered the mountain :)

Only thing I might add is a 'special' monster in or near the throne room (e.g. a beast-master or extra-strong lieutenant), perhaps as a surprise. Or throw something at them when they're on they're way back out again (maybe a local scout party of kobolds hear something going on and try to take advantage?). These are just details though, cos players are fun to surprise!

Anyway. You have a small dungeon, you have sprites, you have a ruleset. Seems to me like you could run this as a trial right now and playtest your rules through level one :) (pleeeeeeeeease!) I don't think it matters that you've posted the map here, you can always take it down and shuffle some monsters & traps around. And I'm sure those of us who've posted about refining things will be happy to let other people play so as not to spoil the surprise.

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:45 am

thinkslogically wrote:I really like that. It's small and relatively simple (not much in the way of puzzles or traps yet, but you don't want to show all your cards in a demo so fair play). I like the bear and each one of the rooms is different enough that it'll give your players a good sense of the place. For something that size, I would expect your players should be able to deal with it in a one-hit run (one 'day') and that it would probably take between 30-50 turns to complete (now watch me get that TOTALLY wrong). I also think you have enough 'realism' there as it is - minions are lucky to have beds at all really, and I also think adding rooms for the sake of it is pointless if they don't serve a direct purpose in the adventure. For a forum game rather than tabletop I think it's really important to have a challenge in every room of a dungeon or it just drags.

The only exceptions I make for that is when it's wilderness areas, but even then I'm not sure how well that really works. I like it to give a bit of context to a dungeon and to let the players have some prep time, but I've got a lot more lurkers watching LotMK since they entered the mountain :)

Only thing I might add is a 'special' monster in or near the throne room (e.g. a beast-master or extra-strong lieutenant), perhaps as a surprise. Or throw something at them when they're on they're way back out again (maybe a local scout party of kobolds hear something going on and try to take advantage?). These are just details though, cos players are fun to surprise!
He he.. thank you.
About wilderness, and empty rooms in general, I do think empty areas can serve a purpose aside from preparation, that of suspense. if you just fight off lats say 3-4 goblins, one run away screaming help, you follow into the next area.. You'll prepare yourself to find a heavy battle here... finding the the area empty will greatly add to the feel of danger, and make the players nervous of what to do next, even if there is only 2 directions to go, back and forward.... hehe...

and... who knows ;)
About any special boos chamber monsters, even in a test, I'll keep a secret....
thinkslogically wrote:Anyway. You have a small dungeon, you have sprites, you have a ruleset. Seems to me like you could run this as a trial right now and playtest your rules through level one :) (pleeeeeeeeease!) I don't think it matters that you've posted the map here, you can always take it down and shuffle some monsters & traps around. And I'm sure those of us who've posted about refining things will be happy to let other people play so as not to spoil the surprise.
o:) It is actually my plan to play test it as soon as "the getting back game" is over...
I'll probably not just use this dungeon, but one similar in size and design... and anyone should sign up if they want.. being only a test run, I don't see it as taking anyone's chance.
to be honest.. I'd love to have someone who are already GM's as players in the tests, as they would (probaly) be able to give better feedback I feel....
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by thinkslogically » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:53 am

LooksAtYouFunny wrote:He he.. thank you.
About wilderness, and empty rooms in general, I do think empty areas can serve a purpose aside from preparation, that of suspense. if you just fight off lats say 3-4 goblins, one run away screaming help, you follow into the next area.. You'll prepare yourself to find a heavy battle here... finding the the area empty will greatly add to the feel of danger, and make the players nervous of what to do next, even if there is only 2 directions to go, back and forward.... hehe...
Oh, for sure! I gave my D&D group a heavily-trapped tower in their very first adventure (nothing too lethal, but just the kinds of deterrents you'd expect the last-guy-alive to set to make sure he had warning before a fight) and since then they've never trusted ANYTHING I've shown them again. So I've designed a really complex-looking burial mound with loads of runes and statues and wobbly floors and stuff just to mess with them. None of it does anything at all :)
LooksAtYouFunny wrote: o:) It is actually my plan to play test it as soon as "the getting back game" is over...
Hells yeah! That's awesome news :)

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by Borys » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:33 am

I still don't get death trap between kitchen and the storeroom. Following your comparison to military base, are doors between toilets usually mined? Are there barbed wires between beds?
It's not like I want to mean, but maybe traps should be placed in more carefully chosen places. Because cook isn't going to disarm the trap every time he goes to take more meat from the storeroom.
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by ThroughTheWell » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:51 am

LooksAtYouFunny wrote:
ThroughTheWell wrote:13 'people' in 3 bed makes for some odd shifts. (4 goblins for floor sleeping, but 1 chief for ? sleeping.) And why is this NOT more homelike when the chief is right there? You have 1 or the other improbable scenario: chief is visiting just at the right time, chief sits at the treasure and rarely goes home for home sake, chief sits here because it's all here: food, gold, fighters, home ah, but home does not have home stuff.

Do it how you want.
1/3rd number of beds are common. making shifts of 8 hours, fitting with sleep. even with a "boss" around. in this case, the goblins do not "count" and can sleep on the floor

<snip>

Sorry TTW, you know I appreciate your feedback, but this right here makes if feel more like complaining for the sake of complaining alone. That does make it less usefull or at least makes it less likely to be heard.

that said.. I finally made an outcast for more LSN/ECR'ish rules. A PDF version is here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/168775637/Rules including a "character sheet"
I think (hope) that you'll find that many of your concerns have actually been taken into note, and the system is very different from what the spell book looked like it would be....
I DID say do it how you want, and I DID count on 8 hour shifts. Now maybe the goblins confused my math adled mind, but I still WAS trying to help. I'm not here to dis you. Hell, had I the time I think I'd like to play in your game, and I think that overall your work is cool. Certainly keep going!

Eh, I'd stick the treasure in a seperate room off the throne room, and put the trap on THAT door. But I've said my piece.

Now, new rules: How many skill points can a char put in a skill, maximum? It is an important char creation question. Also note, you have classes that will likely choose a different number of skills. I've not worked out the numbers, but a thief with the Skilled trait could have 12 points at level 1, for which they don't have 12 good choices, or other classes have 8 skill points and maybe even fewer good choices. The point being, your max needs to allow them to spend their points, you need to give more skills, or you may need to rework your base number of skill points. Said skilled thief will also get +4 skill each extra level, before taking skilled again. (This is good, thieves are skill monkeys.)

A minor quibble, I'd prefer different names for close attack and ranged attack. Maybe simply melee, and ranged, or short versions catk and ratk.

Char ideas:
Hunter, ghost, max stealth, specialized stealth, max R attack, skilled.
holy warrior, battle health, +1 hp at least, the remaining of the +3 to atk, tough.
fighter, die hard (?), max atk, capable atk, largest dam weapon.
Wizard, max alchemy, specilized alchemy, max pow, arcane shield, skilled.

In other words, your system seems like it has some optimizing posibilities, and thus IMHO some interesting characters.

The scribd link was loading super slow for me (stalled). My comments are on the spoilered text version of the rules. If you can bounce more of the magic side to me that way, I could see it.
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:56 am

Borys wrote:I still don't get death trap between kitchen and the storeroom. Following your comparison to military base, are doors between toilets usually mined? Are there barbed wires between beds?
It's not like I want to mean, but maybe traps should be placed in more carefully chosen places. Because cook isn't going to disarm the trap every time he goes to take more meat from the storeroom.
Well.. no, not traps in modern time. but alarms. since a store room can contain valuable.

what you must take into consideration is that food was actually a valuable recourse back then, so putting it behind an alarm would be normal if you were so lucky to actually have one.

That said, moving the trap might be a good idea and replacing the current one with and actual alarm instead.

ThroughTheWell wrote:
LooksAtYouFunny wrote:-SNIP-
I DID say do it how you want, and I DID count on 8 hour shifts. Now maybe the goblins confused my math adled mind, but I still WAS trying to help. I'm not here to dis you. Hell, had I the time I think I'd like to play in your game, and I think that overall your work is cool. Certainly keep going!
yea... I guess it was just the "Do what you want" that made me think it was negative... always hard with text when there is no interpretation of the tone... but thanks for the clarification...
Well.. whenever the real game goes up, who knows, you might have the time then :)
ThroughTheWell wrote:Eh, I'd stick the treasure in a seperate room off the throne room, and put the trap on THAT door. But I've said my piece.
Hmm... that part does makes good sense.. combined with what I wrote to Borys, that might be exactly what I'd do... Except... it might be to obvious now :( :S

ThroughTheWell wrote:Now, new rules: How many skill points can a char put in a skill, maximum? It is an important char creation question. Also note, you have classes that will likely choose a different number of skills. I've not worked out the numbers, but a thief with the Skilled trait could have 12 points at level 1, for which they don't have 12 good choices, or other classes have 8 skill points and maybe even fewer good choices. The point being, your max needs to allow them to spend their points, you need to give more skills, or you may need to rework your base number of skill points. Said skilled thief will also get +4 skill each extra level, before taking skilled again. (This is good, thieves are skill monkeys.)
Well I did put.... ehm... I... Looks through the document... argh Damn... I forgot to put that in...
The skill limit is 3 + current level (4 at level 1)
I'm not 100% sure if I'll add other skills... mostly because I don't want to complicate things... but I think that must wait till after or during the test run.

ThroughTheWell wrote:A minor quibble, I'd prefer different names for close attack and ranged attack. Maybe simply melee, and ranged, or short versions catk and ratk.
Hmm.. ATT is just hte common short for Close combat attack.. that or ATK.... but I guess R-ATT could be RNG, RNA or RAT instead... does not man anything to me... so...
ThroughTheWell wrote:Char ideas:
Hunter, ghost, max stealth, specialized stealth, max R attack, skilled.
holy warrior, battle health, +1 hp at least, the remaining of the +3 to atk, tough.
fighter, die hard (?), max atk, capable atk, largest dam weapon.
Wizard, max alchemy, specilized alchemy, max pow, arcane shield, skilled.

In other words, your system seems like it has some optimizing posibilities, and thus IMHO some interesting characters.
ThroughTheWell wrote: Thanks, during the test run, I'll try to incorporate that :)

ThroughTheWell wrote:The scribd link was loading super slow for me (stalled). My comments are on the spoilered text version of the rules. If you can bounce more of the magic side to me that way, I could see it.
Yea... that's the bad part of Scribd, its slow as F***
But the only thing you've missed so far is to see the actual character sheet.. I'll give you an image:
► Show Spoiler
Spells are still on my to do list... with the exception of the ones described under the caster classes....
but my guess is that it will basically be a "copy from other games and adjust" in the start...
-Best regards LAYF

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by thinkslogically » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:06 am

Meh, I reckon you can trap whatever you want - we have keycodes, keycards, fingerprint scanning etc etc. these days to protect important things, and they can all be translated into a fantasy setting because wizards' can do a lot of things. You could have pinprick blood tests on the door handle which disable the trap if it detects a goblinoid, a runic sequence to type in or simply a key. Dead goblins can provide a couple of ways around any particular trap, but you can keep the harder puzzles for the REALLY important places.

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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by ThroughTheWell » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:01 am

For flavor, how about adding to cleric that they can add thier level to divine Lore, and then take the divine lore bonus away from the wizard?

To complete my sample party of 4 above to 5:
cleric, max pow, arcane shield, skilled, max diplomacy, max sense motive. And I'm not sure whether the wizard should give alchemy to the cleric or not. Probably. It makes for a better share/split of skills, in which case max alchemy, specialized alchemy on the cleric, while the wizard max's the remaining lores. Maybe give sense motive to the holy warrior instead of the cleric. Yeah, max sense motive and max alertness to the tankish holy warrior. The holy warrior could specialize in sense motive, and the fighter specialize in either search or intimidate.

The party of 5 would be highly skilled, have a tank, 2 healers, 2 def casters, 1 ranged stealthy atk, 1 max melee, and 1 fair melee.

:becry: I wana play.

With 15 skills and 5 players earning 2 skill / level, +1 thief, +3 skilled, that gets to 14 points per level allowing the party as a whole to nearly max skills somewhere in the party. The party, as described, would start with 50 points at level 1, split among 15 skills is 3.33 points per skill. And, the specialization bonus would only be kicking in for Lore, stealth, alchemy, plus 2 others. So, not completely maxed but still pretty good. If the thief and wizard take skilled again when they can, then they can fill in some of those gaps.

Obviously, other people could choose a different party.

Eh, you could hide the treasure room beheind a secret door, that is also trapped.

LAYF, can a wizard specialize in a Lore, and add their level twice to that 1 lore?
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:25 pm

ThroughTheWell wrote:For flavor, how about adding to cleric that they can add thier level to divine Lore, and then take the divine lore bonus away from the wizard?
Hmm.. that do sound like a good idea... I'll have to think that through...
ThroughTheWell wrote:To complete my sample party of 4 above to 5:
cleric, max pow, arcane shield, skilled, max diplomacy, max sense motive. And I'm not sure whether the wizard should give alchemy to the cleric or not. Probably. It makes for a better share/split of skills, in which case max alchemy, specialized alchemy on the cleric, while the wizard max's the remaining lores. Maybe give sense motive to the holy warrior instead of the cleric. Yeah, max sense motive and max alertness to the tankish holy warrior. The holy warrior could specialize in sense motive, and the fighter specialize in either search or intimidate.

The party of 5 would be highly skilled, have a tank, 2 healers, 2 def casters, 1 ranged stealthy atk, 1 max melee, and 1 fair melee.
Hehe.. I can see you already feel ready.. well... the test play will only be 3 players first time, and limited to one from each group... might increase in the later tests and will increase in the actual game to either 4 or 5, depending on what the tests yield... maybe 6.. but i doubt it...

ThroughTheWell wrote::becry: I wana play.
There there.... as said... maybe you can at some point....
ThroughTheWell wrote:With 15 skills and 5 players earning 2 skill / level, +1 thief, +3 skilled, that gets to 14 points per level allowing the party as a whole to nearly max skills somewhere in the party. The party, as described, would start with 50 points at level 1, split among 15 skills is 3.33 points per skill. And, the specialization bonus would only be kicking in for Lore, stealth, alchemy, plus 2 others. So, not completely maxed but still pretty good. If the thief and wizard take skilled again when they can, then they can fill in some of those gaps.
ThroughTheWell wrote:Obviously, other people could choose a different party.
true.. a 5 team party would be killer... 6 even more so...
ThroughTheWell wrote:Eh, you could hide the treasure room beheind a secret door, that is also trapped.
true....
ThroughTheWell wrote:LAYF, can a wizard specialize in a Lore, and add their level twice to that 1 lore?
Yes, he could... I see no danger in that, since Lore is pure information skill, with no direct effect on the game.


So... I've just finished the test dungeon.

when the players start... they will get 2 options, based on observation.

The shadowy figure from the inn have told them about a small stronghold, guarded by orc's but controlled by a evil wizard (yes.. I love classics)
tracking out to the location, after buying gear, the Adventures will on the third day see the stronghold

Image.


Going back to camp, without being seen that is. they plan two options for entry.. option A:
Image
Front on.
Pros:
Chance to take out guard and sneak in by the roof.
Cons:
Risk of being spotted and shot at before even getting there.


or Option B:
Image
The back door.
Pros:
Low risk of being spotted.
Cons:
Only a door or a bared window as entry, with no idea of whats in there.


So... yea... just some eye candy :P
-Best regards LAYF

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thinkslogically
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by thinkslogically » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:40 pm

Lol! you say 2 choices, but I bet you'll be offered at least 2 random alternatives by your players :-)

Can't wait to see this start :-) now stop giving stuff away!

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LAYF
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:53 pm

Hehe... this is not giving anything away.. this is how it will start.. first post... before the players are even chosen :P

hehe.. yea... multiple options are sure to be suggested... but... NO SIDE APPROACH! :P because.... you... it...eh..... NO! just no.... :P
-Best regards LAYF

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thinkslogically
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by thinkslogically » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:57 pm

Knock on the back door and run away giggling!

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ThroughTheWell
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by ThroughTheWell » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:13 pm

If I had to drop 2 chars to form 'my' party of 3, it would be the holy warrior and the wizard.

We all know, in a forum game, the GM can limit the art to 2D. So no rotation to show side views. Oh, I'd go in the back.
I survived the forum move 4 times... yeah, I feel old.

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thinkslogically
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by thinkslogically » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:06 pm

While someone runs a distraction out the front:

"Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. If he will give us food and shelter for the night, he can join us in our quest for the Holy Grail."

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Borys
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by Borys » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:17 am

I wonder... what places should be found in a military base (fantasy/middle ages)? Like castle?
My guesses:
Kitchen
Storeroom
Armory
Sleeping quarters
Eating room (if it's castle of some sort, with king/nobleman residing in it)
Boss quarters
Toilets
Dungeons-prison
Towers
Gate control
Chapel
Complains of Everything in Minelings.
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Boro in Unhallowed Isle
Boro in Civilization V
Boro in Cavemen

Proud comic(al) player.

In God School as Dies in Battle

My own game! Castle Story Open for everyone!

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LAYF
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by LAYF » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:32 am

Borys wrote:I wonder... what places should be found in a military base (fantasy/middle ages)? Like castle?
My guesses:
Kitchen
Storeroom
Armory
Sleeping quarters
Eating room (if it's castle of some sort, with king/nobleman residing in it)
Boss quarters
Toilets
Dungeons-prison
Towers
Gate control
Chapel
Well... lets see....

Kitchen plausible, but some times they were located outside of the actual castle/fort
Storeroom definetly
Armory highly plausible, but some few castles/forts in the middle ages had all the arms in hte hallways, to spare room and speed under a sudden attack.
Sleeping quarters Sure.
Eating room (if it's castle of some sort, with king/nobleman residing in it) true, and if not, it was sometimes combined with the kitchen, if it was only a boarder fort.
Boss quarters well.. in real history.. no... in any DnD'ish fantasy world.. sure :)
Toilets nope... toilets were vary uncommon.. chamber pots for you my good sir.. in some case mountet on chairs.. in the dining room, so you could eat and poo at the same time.
Dungeons-prison plausible, in fantasy sure, in real life, often just a singel sell, or even a normal room used for it. dungeons were reserved for the bigger places.
Towers vary likly, only few forts and castles dont have towers.. but... well...
Gate control also true... could just be manual open/close.

when we are in the fantasy world(and some real worlds) you might want to add:
Library - if wizards are part of your army, or its big enough a place to house scholars
A Charts room - It was common to have a room to store prized documents and battle tactics in, also used to plan strategies without praying eyes and ears.
A stable - self explained
A small yard with vegetables and fruit trees - for extra resources during a siege..
And a lot more...

But remember.. A dungeon in the DnD sense is not a thing that were common in the real world... only few places were designed in the Indiana Jones Maze style... but it does make for a better dungeon run than a realistic place....
-Best regards LAYF

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Borys
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Re: Dungeon design and discussion

Post by Borys » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:45 am

I wanted it for my upcoming game...
Well it will be something not realistic, but very "filmish".
Dungeons, mages all this stuff.
I planned having yard with well, stables,blacksmith and all the craftsmen.
And I don't wanna put spoilers that are connected to how the rooms are placed and connected, because that's mostly essence of this game, but I plan to have quite a big fortress with many different rooms and basically everything you could think of. Secret connections, shortcuts, maze that would have normally never be built, because who needs such a complicated layout or his residence...
For this i need to make a map. For the map I have to now what I want the rooms to be exactly, so it makes some sense.

Also I'm sure that in castle of Malbork (biggest castle in Poland) there were some toilets...
Complains of Everything in Minelings.
Boro in Call of Ctulhu - Filipstad
Boro in Unhallowed Isle
Boro in Civilization V
Boro in Cavemen

Proud comic(al) player.

In God School as Dies in Battle

My own game! Castle Story Open for everyone!

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