11 Jan 2014 What are we Watching

[raaabr]

Actually, Forgath getting hit in his helmet reminds me of his remark on this page: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11182005/

Is that considered a "Brick joke"?

well in some house rules, a helmet adds AC, but only against an opponent's roll to verify a critical hit. So it's really more of a Chekov's Gun

I guess you picked your avatar pick on porpoise?

No, how dare you accuse me of that! Now i'm feeling Blue....ga whale.

[Sidewaysgts]

On the topic of the blood on the hilt of oblivious:

This blood has been there for a very

http://www.goblinscomic.org/01112014/

Very
http://www.goblinscomic.org/11272013/

Very
http://www.goblinscomic.org/08102013-2/

Very
http://www.goblinscomic.org/08062013/

Very
http://www.goblinscomic.org/04092013/

Very
http://www.goblinscomic.org/02082013/

Very
http://www.goblinscomic.org/02052013/

Long time..
(And the one before it to show it wasnt there before: http://www.goblinscomic.org/01182013/)

So ya, not from complains of names- Its good ol fashion zombie blood.

[CheeseToastofDeath]

I have a feeling of near-certainty that when Minmax next summons Oblivious, it'll be when they're trying to be quiet. Even if that winds up being an incorrect deduction, I'm certain something will happen with regards to that remark.

[Generic]

Let's not forget that Complains of Names swore he would see MinMax die, and they are now in the same place again.

[Master TMO]

Just throwing out a random comment - someone earlier mentioned that Forgath damaged Kore's axe but still got hit by it. If I'm following the scenes right, Forgath wasn't hit by the axe he cut, but the other one, that is already blooded and Kore had raised overhead in one of the panels.

[stevedj]

Just throwing out a random comment - someone earlier mentioned that Forgath damaged Kore's axe but still got hit by it. If I'm following the scenes right, Forgath wasn't hit by the axe he cut, but the other one, that is already blooded and Kore had raised overhead in one of the panels.

I agree. Indeed, I wonder if Kore might otherwise had two attacks (one per axe) but with that hit by Forgath, perhaps effectively parrying the first attack, so Kore could only hit with the second axe?

I also think this is demonstrating the "reach" that the Haxemace now has (even if not "reach" per D&D rules of "reach") - just showing that Kore was barely able to connect with Forgath...???

[RedwoodElf]

Just throwing out a random comment - someone earlier mentioned that Forgath damaged Kore's axe but still got hit by it. If I'm following the scenes right, Forgath wasn't hit by the axe he cut, but the other one, that is already blooded and Kore had raised overhead in one of the panels.

I agree. Indeed, I wonder if Kore might otherwise had two attacks (one per axe) but with that hit by Forgath, perhaps effectively parrying the first attack, so Kore could only hit with the second axe?

I also think this is demonstrating the "reach" that the Haxemace now has (even if not "reach" per D&D rules of "reach") - just showing that Kore was barely able to connect with Forgath...???

I think what happened is, Forgath did a Sunder on one of Kore's axes, damaging it...Sunder allows an attack of opportunity, which is what we see in the next panel.

[stevedj]

Just throwing out a random comment - someone earlier mentioned that Forgath damaged Kore's axe but still got hit by it. If I'm following the scenes right, Forgath wasn't hit by the axe he cut, but the other one, that is already blooded and Kore had raised overhead in one of the panels.

I agree. Indeed, I wonder if Kore might otherwise had two attacks (one per axe) but with that hit by Forgath, perhaps effectively parrying the first attack, so Kore could only hit with the second axe?

I also think this is demonstrating the "reach" that the Haxemace now has (even if not "reach" per D&D rules of "reach") - just showing that Kore was barely able to connect with Forgath...???

I think what happened is, Forgath did a Sunder on one of Kore's axes, damaging it...Sunder allows an attack of opportunity, which is what we see in the next panel.

Now, I don't know the rules, so please correct me... but...

I would think that, logically, the AoO for a Sunder would occur before the attack, not after. For example, I'm going to swing in an attempt to not hit you, but hit/damage/break your sword. In so doing, I open myself to an extra attack (...of opportunity). But once I swing, if I'm successful, your sword is broken... what good is an AoO at that point?

[grizzled grizzle]

It looks like the GAP has made their first move, mountain to the right.

Does that create a 'win' in less than 10 moves?

1. Mountain Right
2. Glove Down
3. Tree Right
4. Ring Down
5. Eye Left
6. Tree Up
7. Star Left
8. Key Down
9. Tree Right

The goblins seem to have made a big mistake moving the mountain... it was 6 moves to get the key under the tree before (assuming multiple tiles moving in the same direction is as fast as moving a single one), now itÔÇÖs 7, although there are ways of saving face and not moving the mountain back where it was..

0. mountain back where it was...
1. key down
2. ring over
3. tree up
4. key over
5. eye down
6. tree over

edit:
p.s. AoO does occur before the action that provoked it:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attack ... pportunity

[Reads_Books]

Minmax reminds me of one of my favorite sayings. Arguing with yourself doesn't prove that you are crazy. Losing the argument does.

[Gryphonic]

Minmax reminds me of one of my favorite sayings. Arguing with yourself doesn't prove that you are crazy. Losing the argument does.

So what would you count this? They're both Minmaxes. I guess they can be considered different people, but that page made me laugh just as hard.

[Tofu]

I'm still hopeful the axe was damaged as I speculated, the inks seem to make it clearer that this is what was done.

Still think MinMax is being played by a genius jester as I am still smiling about that dialogue.

How many people reading actually play D&D? I'm guessing only a few as the bits of advice that pop out seem amazingly arcane to me and from a rare few. Personally I find it part of the most satisfying parts of the goblins community.

@Reads_Books - lol

[BootToTheHead]

I sadly don't play D&D. I've wanted to for awhile, but I don't know anyone who does/might want to, and I'm not social enough to find someone who does.
I still really like the concepts and ideas behind it.
I enjoy Goblins regardless, but I imagine actually playing D&D adds a whole new layer of nuance to things.
I do like reading the opinions of those that actually do play. It helps to give at least some insight to the D&D side.

[willpell]

How many people reading actually play D&D?

I'm running a game of it right here on the forums! 3rd Edition, no less, much as THunt's world is based on (feats and all). Granted I updated to Point Five and he more or less hasn't.

[Sidewaysgts]

I sadly don't play D&D. I've wanted to for awhile, but I don't know anyone who does/might want to, and I'm not social enough to find someone who does.
I still really like the concepts and ideas behind it.
I enjoy Goblins regardless, but I imagine actually playing D&D adds a whole new layer of nuance to things.
I do like reading the opinions of those that actually do play. It helps to give at least some insight to the D&D side.

If youre interested, I strongly suggest you check out a forum called The Tangled Web. Its a forum/community of people who like to play table top games (Online!) Using various tools/programs (Ie Map tools). A lot of the games are for DnD/pathfinder but theres a few others as well. Theres a good subsection for both players who are looking to join games, and another where Dms are actively seeking players. I play a game every saturday with a group there.

[Wolfie]

How many people reading actually play D&D? I'm guessing only a few as the bits of advice that pop out seem amazingly arcane to me and from a rare few. Personally I find it part of the most satisfying parts of the goblins community.

I play every week. Currently a Gnome Rogue/Fighter. However, I don't claim to know all of the ins and outs of D&D so I keep my head down on the rules discussions.

Minmax reminds me of one of my favorite sayings. Arguing with yourself doesn't prove that you are crazy. Losing the argument does.

<snerk>

But did he lose or was it more of a draw?

[GroundPetrel]

Was away for winter break, just caught this update. Awesome, by the way.

So. Axe of racism plus Hammace = made of win, pure genius, and I never saw that one coming.

It would not be illogical to assume that the Axe of racism technically qualifies as part of the Hammace while held in the Hammace's head's grip, and that the +7 bonus therefore extends to the entirety of the hammace, which if memory serves F is proficient with. It's a bit of a stretch to assume that both the Axe and the Hammace are stacking damage here, but if so...well, the odds are greatly evened.

Tactical analysis:

MM is useless, and telling his future self "MinmaxyouassfaceIhateyou!!!!!" (great line BTW)

F is fighting Kore. Assuming the above speculation and minimum level for Kore, F's effective combat ability is about 6 levels behind Kore's, at the minimum. This is not good.

GAP is part useless and part trying to solve the puzzle.

K's whereabouts are unknown, presumed still in Maze of Many Alts. If she uses the teapot, caches it, then teleports to MM&F, she might be able to hit Kore--if she loots one of the alts before the maze resets, then leaves, hypothetically she can get a useful weapon. As a yuan-ti halfblood, she has 7 hit dice, and therefore more HP than anyone but MM (who we can assume has a high Con score, at least 14 give the amount of punishment he takes and his lack of mental ability). Also, she has a BAB of +5, if memory serves, which would give her a halfway decent shot of at least distracting Kore with a decent weapon (assuming she has either a Strength score greater than her scorpion alt's and/or suitably high dex and Weapon Finesse. Even if she shows up and doesn't land a hit, K would still be able to flank Kore and give F an attack bonus.

F's spells are low, if memory serves, and he cannot use them in combat anyway without provoking AoOs, which would be fatal. Withdraw action defeats the purpose of fighting Kore (keep him from the others). A distraction might distract Kore long enough for F to cast summon monster, giving him three rounds of flanking badger if all goes well. Alternatively...well, there isn't much beside self-healing, because 3rd level clerics really don't get much.

Final analysis: A distraction is the only feasible way to defeat Kore. I personally hope for K to show up, which would give us a nice MM/K reunion scene. If F has enough time for a self-heal and/or summoned backup, victory chance is about 30% and fatality chance (excluding Chief's death) is about 20%, given current knowledge of the various characters' combat abilities. Without backup and/or a distraction and/or F getting a chance to use his spells, victory chance is below 3% and fatality chance is at least 80%.

The only other option is for F to royally cheese off Herbert, opening the flaming pit of Hell right in front of him, and right under Kore. This would be a temporary solution, but it would give our heroes time to get some XP and loot (and rez Chief) to prepare for the ultimate final showdown.

Analysis complete.

Mr. Hunt, I am a big fan. Keep up the awesome work!
GroundPetrel

[Gindjurra]

That was incredibly amusing sequence with Oblivious (once again, name oh so appropriate).

After seeing that, I had an idea...

Minmax effectively can't let go of the sword...but what if someone else had hold of it? Say, he held it loosely and someone else grabbed the hilt firmly enough to block his future self from grabbing it...what would happen?

Possibilities include everything from a gory and very literal disarming to the end of the space-time continuum. But it would probably be amusing to watch.

[Wolfie]

That was incredibly amusing sequence with Oblivious (once again, name oh so appropriate).

After seeing that, I had an idea...

Minmax effectively can't let go of the sword...but what if someone else had hold of it? Say, he held it loosely and someone else grabbed the hilt firmly enough to block his future self from grabbing it...what would happen?

Possibilities include everything from a gory and very literal disarming to the end of the space-time continuum. But it would probably be amusing to watch.

Most likely the sword would just disappear since it can't be affected by anything/anyone but MinMax. You could postulate that whatever was on the sword (even a person) would be transported through time to when MinMax grabs the sword again, like the blood does.

[BuildsLegos]

And once again someone needs to be reminded what "outside time" means.

[Wolfie]

And once again someone needs to be reminded what "outside time" means.

Well, technically, the sword exists outside time. However, and this is shown in comic, it moves instantaneously from when MM drops the sword to when he picks it up again. Ergo, it moves through time and brings what's attached to it along with it.

And please... watch your tone. Nobody likes being talked down to.

[spiderwrangler]

How many people reading actually play D&D?

I'm running a game of it right here on the forums! 3rd Edition, no less, much as THunt's world is based on (feats and all). Granted I updated to Point Five and he more or less hasn't.

That's been my first REAL D&D experience! I'm not counting playing NWN on the computer.

[Simon]

That was incredibly amusing sequence with Oblivious (once again, name oh so appropriate).

After seeing that, I had an idea...

Minmax effectively can't let go of the sword...but what if someone else had hold of it? Say, he held it loosely and someone else grabbed the hilt firmly enough to block his future self from grabbing it...what would happen?

Possibilities include everything from a gory and very literal disarming to the end of the space-time continuum. But it would probably be amusing to watch.

Most likely the sword would just disappear since it can't be affected by anything/anyone but MinMax. You could postulate that whatever was on the sword (even a person) would be transported through time to when MinMax grabs the sword again, like the blood does.

This is a really interesting idea. It would be interesting know or see in the comic what would happen.

There are a few scenarios I could expect may happen if you do grab the sword:

1. You can prevent it leaving, and wield it yourself.
2. You can prevent it leaving, but you can't wield it.
3. You can't move it, you can't prevent it leaving, but you can get pulled through the hole
4. You can't move the sword, you can't prevent it leaving and you can't get pulled though (the sword just vanishes)
5. You can't move the sword, you can't prevent it leaving you get pulled partially through, then the hole closes

For 1 and 2, we know no one can move it apart from Minmax, as Forgath tries to do. I'm not sure if Minmax moves Forgath (see panel 7 and as I can't tell whether the sword moves. I think people on this forum have discussed whether he could lift a boulder that fell on him, but I'm not sure what the consesnous was. I'd say that You can't wield it (invalidating 1), but you MIGHT be able to stop Minmax moving it, if you were strong (or I think more likely, heavy) enough to prevent him lifting it. In this case, you may be able to get Minmax to attack things or move his hand to do stuff or something, but is probably unlikely. What might just happen is that the hole moves instead (so the hole passes around the sword instead of the usual).

For 3,4,5 and another person moving through the hole, Kin does say that "the hole exists only for Minmax and his sword", which suggests 4 is correct. Possibly, as the sword is drawn back, it enters the hole, but the person passes through as if the hole wasn't there, with the sword essentially just 'disapearing'.
Kin may be (and probably is) wrong with some of the details though. She suggested the sword would hover in mid air when released and obviously that didn't happen. There's also evidence that other things can pass through the hole. Sound (and so vibration, maybe even air), light and blood stuck to the sword can all pass through.

I think, if you look at the explanation of the Axe of Prissan it shows small objects (at the very least) can pass through the hole. However, a person may or may not pass through the hole (heh, sorry I'll explain what I mean). There's a section mentioning tying a rope to two people, one who drank a potion or something that allowed walking through walls, but the potion doesn't transfer the effect onto other people.

► Show Spoiler

Relevant section: "As any seasoned dungeon master knows, players have tried to add ropes to everything their characterÔÇÖs do. Seriously. Everything. Most of us have seen the scenario in which someone drinks a potion or something that allows them to walk ghost-like through a stone wall. This of course, is done with a rope tied around his waist while a buddy holds the other end and promises that ÔÇ£thisÔÇÖll totally workÔÇ£. The rope, along with the adventurerÔÇÖs equipment passes magically through the wall as long as it is in contact with our hero. However, most potions, spells, magic rings, etc. will not allow the magical trait to be shared with other people. Clothing and small objects only."

So it would entirely depend on whether the sword transfered the effect onto people. It could be argued that, because oblivious' power comes from "stupidity", if Minmax didn't know that people couldn't pass through the hole, then they could. But that's just a guess, no real evidence behind it. If someone could pass through the hole, then I think point 5 is the most likely outcome. The hole is only open for Minmax to retrieve the sword, and closes almost immediately after it is pulled through. There's no evidence that the hole would stay open to let other stuff finish passing through.

In my opinion, I think the most likely thing is that you can't prevent the sword leaving and that a person can't pass through the hole*. I mean it's not overly exciting (and it was a lot of text just to say it's probably not happen) but it would be cool to see weird tricks but I don't think they'll happen. I'd love to read anyone else's view on it though, if they wanted to discuss it. or if they have evidence to suggest other possibilities (but I think this might be going offtopic, so we'd have to discuss elsewhere).

[Punzil504]

One story I read about the "passing through walls" effect had the one with the ability say "I can sort of transfer it to you, but you won't like it." She hugged him, and pulled him through the wall, and he felt the wall slithering through him, choking off his breath and running through his innards. It was extremely unpleasant, and he hoped to never have to do it again.

[Jochi]

But, there are 4 goblins. Can't they each take a turn each round? If so, that's 4 moves per round - so they should be able to complete the puzzle in 3 rounds, with a couple goblins still having an action...

Eight. Sliding a tile should be no more effort or time than drawing a weapon -- a move action. The goblins should get a move action AND a standard action each on their initiative. This should take at most two rounds.