22 December 2013 - "Shut up"

[SGTdude]

Ok Lego, its really not funny anymore.

Its just rude.

Its frikin christmas and its discussion about a comic. Lighten up please.

[lingrem]

Liquidmark, WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST SAY?!

The ring is +4 against missiles, not +infinite. Besides, Forgath needs to face Kore so that his beard adds to the defense and he'll need to be ready to cast defensive spells at just the right moment.

As for Forgath's gender, you can tell he's a man by the bushiness of his beard. Female dwarves have silk-like beards and dammit, if I hear one more "ew" about bearded women, I will stab a testicle.

What I keep having to explain to you people is that, between his beard and spells, Forgath needs to FACE KORE DIRECTLY and NOT BE THE ONE TO SOLVE THE PUZZLE. Do you have that through your skull yet?

In an unofficial mod-voice:

Be nice.

[Liesmith]

The beard wouldn't help much against a stabbing action like an arrow, but it may help against an axe to the throat.

[vonpenguin]

Comparing the coverage of Forgath's armor to Minmax's, their both wearing half plate, which is damn good armor. Forgath's may not be magical but it's still good, plus the Hammace adding to his AC. Forgath does have, by miles most likely, the highest AC of anyone there. He still shouldn't be the one solving the puzzle since he'd have to stop to heal himself constantly, he's better off pestering Kore (Why do I see another brick joke coming with him casting doom?) while the goblins work the puzzle. And besides, by DnD rules isn't facing irrelevant? if his beard gives him armor it gives him armor, no facing needed. Granted I've never done more 3.0 or 3.5 than a few scattered one shots so I very well could be wrong on that point.

[BuildsLegos]

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who gets it. And yes, the beard WILL only work head-on. If it applies armor to Forgath's entire body, he'd be untouchable because, as the Kins clearly stated, it can't be hurt. Besides, somebody already backed my up on the advantages of the tower shield with angles of cover being a factor in the game; it must be believed that the super-beard is strong mobile cover over Fogath's chest.

[vonpenguin]

Cover and armor are different though, and an invincible material that only covers the chin, neck, and part of the chest wouldn't give that much AC since it covers a small area, AC is simply an overall abstraction of how tough it is to land a hit. Essentially Forgath would need to face an attack for his beard to block it in world, but the way armor (as apposed to cover) works is that anything that would be blocked by the beard in the "under the hood" rules would cause him to turn into the blow and have it glance off. Remember, the fights look dynamic but the world runs off of the simplified physics of a Pen and Paper RPG.

[BuildsLegos]

Essentially Forgath would need to face an attack for his beard to block it in world...

Exactly! Why do you sound like we aren't in perfect agreement?

[vonpenguin]

I'd say chicken and egg argument, you seem to be saying that Forgath would not benefit from his beard if not actively putting it between him and danger, I'm saying, due to DnD physics, that the act of Kore failing an attack roll would be that Forgath's beard just happens to end up in the right spot to block it. In terms of plot it should be pretty meaningless distinction but since Minmax and Kore are Munchkins it's worth noting.

[Liquidmark]

Comparing the coverage of Forgath's armor to Minmax's, their both wearing half plate, which is damn good armor. Forgath's may not be magical but it's still good, plus the Hammace adding to his AC. Forgath does have, by miles most likely, the highest AC of anyone there. He still shouldn't be the one solving the puzzle since he'd have to stop to heal himself constantly, he's better off pestering Kore (Why do I see another brick joke coming with him casting doom?) while the goblins work the puzzle. And besides, by DnD rules isn't facing irrelevant? if his beard gives him armor it gives him armor, no facing needed. Granted I've never done more 3.0 or 3.5 than a few scattered one shots so I very well could be wrong on that point.

That's why I said that, alternatively, have Forgath act as a shield, have someone solving the puzzle and get Ears to help heal Forgath.

Forgath's armor sucks, as hinted by the fact that he's worn it since level-1. Minmax's armor, on the other hand, has already deflected a bolt or 2 without even a scratch and Forgath even said when they first found it that the rainbow armor is, and I quote, "amazing". But Minmax is busy holding the gate open and might not have the stats to do that and move around at the same time, I think he's already stuck in a safe spot. What I keep having to explain to you people is that, between his beard and spells, Forgath needs to FACE KORE DIRECTLY and NOT BE THE ONE TO SOLVE THE PUZZLE. Do you have that through your skull yet?

Out of the *available* people, Forgath's Armor is the best. Ears is out because Kore would kill him in one hit and take the Axe. Complains isn't wearing aormor and neither is his father. Minmax is holding up the gate. Forgath doesn't have to run over there and attack Kore Head-On. That is a suicide mission that won't stop anything. Kore would plow through him like hes nothing and *then* harpoon whoever is trying to solve the puzzle. If you read the second thing I stated, I clearly said forgath could act as a shield and basically tank against Kore's bolts, ears could be on healing duty and the smartest remaining goblin can solve he puzzle.

Failing that, I do believe that Forgath's armor, as sucky as it is supposed to be, can stand up to Kore's bolts long enough for him to solve the puzzle considering his defense bonuses from other items in his inventory. WIll Thunt throw Forgath at Kore? Probably. But it would be wise for Forgath to tank at least until Kore is within Melee range.

Other than that, I don't think Forgath's beard will do anything to stop piercing attacks. But slashing attacks will be stopped no problem.

[vonpenguin]

Can Ear's even heal enough to be at all useful? He's low level and has already used lay on hands and at least one spell slot already from what I recall. His wisdom doesn't seem that high judging by his action either. I think he'd be more of a hindrance to Forgath than a help, Kore can potentially hit both of them with a volley if they stand close even if Ears use Forgath as cover and once his healing is out forgath would have to split his rounds healing two people. I think Ear's doing assist actions on whoever is solving the puzzle would be better there.

[Liquidmark]

Can Ear's even heal enough to be at all useful? He's low level and has already used lay on hands and at least one spell slot already from what I recall. His wisdom doesn't seem that high judging by his action either. I think he'd be more of a hindrance to Forgath than a help, Kore can potentially hit both of them with a volley if they stand close even if Ears use Forgath as cover and once his healing is out forgath would have to split his rounds healing two people. I think Ear's doing assist actions on whoever is solving the puzzle would be better there.

Maybe. But both Ears and Forgath can heal, I believe. Between the two of them healing (Forgath) with Forgath tanking and considering Ears' armor, I think they will be ok for a while.

Ears does keep making foolish decisions. He's a tryhard paladin. He's like freaking Worf, always volunteering for the suicide missions and getting pissed that he didn't get a chance to die a glorious death.

[RocketScientist]

Look, everybody! Dancing Santas!

[Gryphonic]

The problem I see with the 'Ears as backup heals' is that Forgath and Minmax don't know that he can heal either of them. He might do so on his own initiative, but there doesn't seem to be time to say hey, by the way, we have adventurer levels now.

Ears does keep making foolish decisions. He's a tryhard paladin. He's like freaking Worf, always volunteering for the suicide missions and getting pissed that he didn't get a chance to die a glorious death.

Maybe. As the paladin of the party, if someone has to stand rearguard in a dangerous situation it does seem to fall in his job (class) description.* Also, Chief just died after he ran away with the others instead of facing Kore. I think there's a lot of grief and guilt in him now. He took the less dangerous action before (even if it was a direct order) and lost his clan leader. He doesn't want to lose anyone else if there's anything left in his power to protect them.

For the who-distracts-Kore discussion, I think Ears' armor might also be sufficient until Kore got into melee, and Kore is slow. We haven't seen him struck by those bolts at all yet. The armor breaking was from an axe blow. We've also seen him successfully use the Axe as a shield against missile attacks before.

*It's not just Big Ears who's taken heroic to the point of suicidal in defense of the others. Thaco didn't expect to survive the Goblinslayer, he was just wanting to give the others a distraction. And when Thaco was successfully arguing Ears out of taking on the entire Elite force of Brassmoon, it was Complains that took a flying leap off a tall building. Chief finally made his stand after a lifetime of cowardice, and he knew he wouldn't live and did it anyway. So putting the safety of others above their own life is something all of the GAP has done.

[qTzal]

Then of course there is the problem of who Kore will attack.
Thunt has left us plenty of evidence of Kore's T-800 like tendencies:
_________

I'm willing to bet that any of Kore's crossbow bolts that have hit MM or Forgath were incidental to his primary attack on the GAP. Given his legend, as told by Thaco, and his own admission to the raised goblin cleric any attempt at diversion by anyone other than one of his targets is likely to be brushed aside to be dealt with later.

[AntMac]

Look, everybody! Dancing Santas!

WAIT A MINUTE !.

Wears Red, dance the leg-flinging Russian style Folk Dance, GIVES AWAY COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS FOR FREE ! ! ! ! . . . Is Santa Claus some sorta COMMIE ! ! ! ! ?

[JustRight]

I like how Ears' attempt at yet another heroic moment is undermined by the other two.

I also like how there's actually very legitimate reasons for Forgath to be the one to fight Kore:

1) He has the protection against missile attacks.
2) He can get a massive bonus from the Axe of Racism
3) Minmax is probably the only one with the necessary strength bonus to hold the gate up.
4) Fumbles lacks the levels necessary to slow Kore down.
5) Kore is immune to Ears' attacks.
6) Thaco was just knocked to negative numbers, and probably wouldn't survive another hit.
7) Complains just finished raging, and is probably still suffering penalties as a result.

Everything is aligning to take away all options aside from Forgath; it's like a Seldon Crisis.

I believe the low number of individuals involved disqualifies this situation from psychohistorical analysis - although I'll grant you there are external and internal forces at work - like in a Seldon Crisis.

► Show Spoiler

"I think this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part - and we're just the guys to do it!"

[Liquidmark]

The problem I see with the 'Ears as backup heals' is that Forgath and Minmax don't know that he can heal either of them. He might do so on his own initiative, but there doesn't seem to be time to say hey, by the way, we have adventurer levels now.

The goblins know that forgath is a cleric and can heal and Thaco seems to be the Picolo of their combined forces. The goblins can make the offer.

[Glemp]

Look, everybody! Dancing Santas!

WAIT A MINUTE !.

Wears Red, dance the leg-flinging Russian style Folk Dance, GIVES AWAY COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS FOR FREE ! ! ! ! . . . Is Santa Claus some sorta COMMIE ! ! ! ! ?

Funnily enough, he only wears the red because of commercialism - specifically, Coca-cola dressed him that way in a series of adverts to promote, um, Coca-cola. It's stuck ever since, and the company gets royalties every time he's portrayed in red and white.

^ I checked this out, and it isn't exactly true - the red Santa look was already in existence in the form of a series of paintings that C-CCo bought the rights from (and still use in their adverts) - I don't know whether they collect royalties on it.

[SGTdude]

Fixed your statement. Sad but true.

Funnily enough, he only wears the red because of commercialism - specifically, Coca-cola dressed him that way in a series of adverts to promote, um, Coca-cola. It's stuck ever since, and the company gets royalties every time he's portrayed in red and white.

Back on topic in response to qTzal:
http://www.goblinscomic.org/09172005/
Granted FM-K weren't exactly socializing with GAP when Kore hit the bridge, but who knows what goes on in that wacky dwarf's mind. What is clear is that the stain of evil is clearly contagious and spreads easily. I have no problem trying to use the AK-47 on the bridge because I dont see "collateral damage" being a term that Kore really understands.

[qTzal]

Granted FM-K weren't exactly socializing with GAP when Kore hit the bridge, but who knows what goes on in that wacky dwarf's mind. What is clear is that the stain of evil is clearly contagious and spreads easily. I have no problem trying to use the AK-47 on the bridge because I dont see "collateral damage" being a term that Kore really understands.

I wasn't saying that Kore has avoided collateral damage just that he is what I like to call "target locked".
The few samples of his behavior he have up til now indicate that he takes the most efficient path from start to the termination of his target. The real question is if he is capable of being distracted from his current self assigned mission of killing this entire clan of goblins.

The simple fact of the matter is that he is obviously ignoring villages and dungeons full of evil he passes through on his way to his targets; if not his legend would would be of a widening swath of total obliteration behind him everywhere he goes. In that situation he wouldn't have had to defeat a single army singlehandedly but ALL ARMIES as no nation could afford not to ally with every other to stop what would be know as "The Walking Armageddon". Kore is selective and intensely focused, unnaturally so perhaps.

Whether by magical control(curse/possession/golem-ification?), cold indifference or simple rote repetition Kore has become a Terminator. There were many times when the T-888's and T-1000 simply shoved a bystander aside rather than dispatch them because they were fixated on the target so intensely.
I'm not saying that the Kore character actually IS a franchise Terminator but he acts exactly like one except for being slightly more chatty.

I'm not certain Kore will allow himself to be distracted from the goblins.

[SGTdude]

Yeah. What I was trying to say with my post is that it seems very likely that MM and Forgath have become part of the evil that is the goblins just like that little kid dwarf had become inextricably linked with Hawl.

[Kamos]

So perhaps Kore thinks himself to be the only incorruptible soul out there. That anyone else fighting evil is bound to be corrupted by it and that only through what he regards as his blessing does he avoid such a fate.

[Miryafa]

Well color me surprised. Also surprised on the previous comic when Kore shot at FMK (or at the goblins with terrible aim... hah!)

Anyway, Thunt you have great ideas for dungeons. You could write a book Just don't introduce any new items/rules, they're almost always terribly unbalanced.

[Meridianson]

Poor ears ... he gets shouted down no matter what it is that he doesnt say. Nice bodylanguage there of Big Ears.

i also like the way the Big Orange one keeps on being kind and generous with those he hates ... it's positively childish how he can be so hurtfully hateful then so opposite yet still remaining hateful in his language. Very 8yo in my view. Love MinMax in moments like this.

Point taken Lisesmith about it likely being Forgath ... however the axe of racism is not in his hands is it, there is the hammacer though. Mind you, keeping the gate up is easy, the Oblivious sword could just let out to hang there holding up the gate, no effort needed ...

If Minmax let go of Oblivious, it would vanish, so he'd have to stay with it regardless. The Axe of Racism could just be handed to Forgath to give him an edge...it seems tailor-made for this very situation.

Could he even carry it, being a cleric? It IS a bladed weapon.

Also, does anyone else think the shadows are a little overbearing sometimes?

[YardMeat]

Could he even carry it, being a cleric? It IS a bladed weapon.

It doesn't matter in 3.x. He could take a feat to be proficient with the axe (though I seriously doubt that he has the feat). There are no restrictions to which weapons clerics can be proficient in, and he can use the weapon even without the proficiency. He gets penalties, but the +7 helps compensate for that.