17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
- Master TMO
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Mmm.. unpleasant thought: "Oh yeah, that's totally going to happen. And not a pleasant death either- lots of screaming."
Kore doesn't waste time when he kills. The only time we've seen one of his victims take a long time to die was Chief, who he tortured to draw the other goblins back to him. Does a similar fate wait for Forgath? *shudder*
Of course, we could be nitpicky and say that the wall didn't say that Forgath would be the one screaming. As Forgath put it, MinMax now screams twice as much during a fight because he took a level in barbarian. And Complains screams just as much..
That's it! Kore's super-secret weakness: Sound! He'll be driven to utter distraction and weakness when MinMax and Complains start screaming in both his ears at the same time!
... this *is* the Wild Mass Guessing thread, right?
Kore doesn't waste time when he kills. The only time we've seen one of his victims take a long time to die was Chief, who he tortured to draw the other goblins back to him. Does a similar fate wait for Forgath? *shudder*
Of course, we could be nitpicky and say that the wall didn't say that Forgath would be the one screaming. As Forgath put it, MinMax now screams twice as much during a fight because he took a level in barbarian. And Complains screams just as much..
That's it! Kore's super-secret weakness: Sound! He'll be driven to utter distraction and weakness when MinMax and Complains start screaming in both his ears at the same time!
... this *is* the Wild Mass Guessing thread, right?
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
It was already pointed out that he's at least level 14; and what do you mean "down points"? Only Thaco in the entire comic has been able to harm him and only with clever abuse of a magic item, which was completely negated by Lay-on-Hands. So you mean he has less than perfect magic points? Oh joy, he can still cast what, 5 more spells today?DragonStryk72 wrote:Or you know, they could just stop him. Kore is already down points thanks to the GAP, and as was previously worked out, a 9th level paladin, meaning he has finite HP. Hand the Racist Axe to Forgath, use the culverts for cover til Kore closes, then move to flank. Forgath gets a whopping +8 per swing (enough to counter the tower shield's AC bonus), while Thaco, Complains, and Big Ears flank. You fight from the other side with Fumbles, Forgath, and Minmax. You have a healer on each side, and from that point, Kore's got nowhere to go, taking at least 8 attacks a rounds that are at +2 for flanking bonus, save for Forgath, who's sitting on a +10. Even if Fumbles just stands there, he's still helping the fight by providing flank. If no one else has this knowledge, Minmax does, because he's a minmaxer. If there's one thing he knows, it's how to stack a bunch of modifiers in a fight.
I don't get this "He can't be beaten in combat" thing, because he's not actually that good. He uses no real tactics, and just slogs through due to his AC. That's fine when you have backup with other party members, but at this point, he's not gonna be able to use the crossbows much longer, putting him into melee. If he attempts to attack with the crossbows while fighting in melee, he provokes an attack of opportunity for each instance of attack, so 2x8= He can be hit up to 16 times a round, without wasting any of the group's attacks for the round.
Failing all of that, they can just bum rush, overbear, and throw his stupid butt off the bridge. Without some other factor we are up to now unaware of, this fight should be Kore's ass.
The Kinslayer is +SEVEN against YOUR OWN RACE; not only does the boost not stack with the +1 against other races, but it's not a boost against equipment. The axe will only work if, at the very least, the helmet is taken off again.
How do you propose flanking an enemy bigger than yourself when he takes up the entire unfenced bridge? It's completely insane that you're ignoring how suicidal it is, crossbows or not, to approach Kore in this situation especially; he can swat at least 2 goblins per turn off the bridge even if he were to run out of bolts
Why even worry about tactics when, as long as the Dragon's Maw stays locked, the DM is giving him 6 free victims that can't escape. I also find it disturbing that you've completely forgotten that Kore can switch to his duel-wield hatchets seemingly as a free move.
And even Minmax isn't tough enough to run up to the trigger-happy bottom-heavy tank and throw him without going into negatives. Only for Kin would he even be willing.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
My problem is I 'm calling bogus on Kore still being a paladin...maybe an Anti-Paladin. NO paladin I've ever seen played could get away with the patiently EVIL acts he regularly commits...REGARDLESS of any curse! I play more paladins that any other character class.
Kore is NO PALADIN!
My problem is I 'm calling bogus on Kore still being a paladin...maybe an Anti-Paladin. NO paladin I've ever seen played could get away with the patiently EVIL acts he regularly commits...REGARDLESS of any curse! I play more paladins that any other character class.
Kore is NO PALADIN!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
lets set aside the issue of rules and numbers for the moment, and just look at what we've already seen in the story: the goblins already tried that & they couldn't even land a single hit on kore. meanwhile one shot from kore's ax was enough to shatter big ears' magic armor, or put thaco down to -8 hp. they only survived as long as they did by running around and outmaneuvering him. they try to lock ranks and kore's gonna go through them like a wheat thresher.DragonStryk72 wrote:Or you know, they could just stop him. Kore is already down points thanks to the GAP, and as was previously worked out, a 9th level paladin, meaning he has finite HP. Hand the Racist Axe to Forgath, use the culverts for cover til Kore closes, then move to flank. Forgath gets a whopping +8 per swing (enough to counter the tower shield's AC bonus), while Thaco, Complains, and Big Ears flank. You fight from the other side with Fumbles, Forgath, and Minmax. You have a healer on each side, and from that point, Kore's got nowhere to go, taking at least 8 attacks a rounds that are at +2 for flanking bonus, save for Forgath, who's sitting on a +10. Even if Fumbles just stands there, he's still helping the fight by providing flank. If no one else has this knowledge, Minmax does, because he's a minmaxer. If there's one thing he knows, it's how to stack a bunch of modifiers in a fight.
I don't get this "He can't be beaten in combat" thing, because he's not actually that good. He uses no real tactics, and just slogs through due to his AC. That's fine when you have backup with other party members, but at this point, he's not gonna be able to use the crossbows much longer, putting him into melee. If he attempts to attack with the crossbows while fighting in melee, he provokes an attack of opportunity for each instance of attack, so 2x8= He can be hit up to 16 times a round, without wasting any of the group's attacks for the round.
Failing all of that, they can just bum rush, overbear, and throw his stupid butt off the bridge. Without some other factor we are up to now unaware of, this fight should be Kore's ass.
what good are 16 attacks per round when everything we've ever seen just glances off that armor? but really, it's more like 14 since big ears doesn't even have a usable weapon against kore. then subtract from that the turns spent healing after kore KOs 2 of them every round. and even that number is going to start dwindling pretty damn quickly.
even if we give minmax & fogarth the benefit of the doubt, say that they can survive more than one hit & actually penetrate the up till now impenetrable armor or kore, so what? are they really going to be able to do more damage than a rope through the damn spinal column? because that's the only bad thing we've ever seen happen to kore, and it was a mild inconvenience at best.
on one side of this proposed fight is kore, a living legend; everyone who knows his name is stone cold terrified & not embarrassed to admit it. on the other side is a geriatric monk, a semi-catatonic idiot, a crippled fighter who's already blown his daily rage-wad, minmax & fogarth (who've already faced one super-villain today, so no telling what kind of fighting shape they're in), and big ears who's weapon is actually worse than useless since as soon as he's dead it will belong to kore.
if they can't get that door open, our heroes' best reasonable option is to take a header off the bridge & hope that kore doesn't decide to bring them back to life after he gets down there to pick up the axe.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
the axe of prissan would appear to disagree with yousunphoenix wrote:Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
My problem is I 'm calling bogus on Kore still being a paladin...maybe an Anti-Paladin. NO paladin I've ever seen played could get away with the patiently EVIL acts he regularly commits...REGARDLESS of any curse! I play more paladins that any other character class.
Kore is NO PALADIN!
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
No, he is. Nobody understands how it can be that he is, it's a puzzle and a huge contradiction, but he is a paladin. That's been established beyond doubt. Thunt really likes setting puzzles...sunphoenix wrote:Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
My problem is I 'm calling bogus on Kore still being a paladin...maybe an Anti-Paladin. NO paladin I've ever seen played could get away with the patiently EVIL acts he regularly commits...REGARDLESS of any curse! I play more paladins that any other character class.
Kore is NO PALADIN!
As for the puzzle in this latest strip, I am looking at those bars. When you see them from the front, it seems they're bowed out quite a distance, as if to keep adventurers from touching the puzzle pieces. However, notice the other view we get, two panels on, from the side. There's blackness just inside the bars.
And those two rows of ... stones? pressure sensors? whatever they are... they have to do something.
I suppose we'll have to wait until this page gets its final shading to be sure. Still, I'm thinking there may be illusions involved here.
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- BuildsLegos
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Alright, sorry. But I can't imagine the bonus applies to the tower shield, there are a few inches between it and Kore's face/chest. If I'm wrong about even this, Stryk's post is still offensively suicidal.sunphoenix wrote:Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Well you see, back in 2801, the Friendly Paladin Company built a robotic Paladin to determine who'd been evil and who'd been good and distribute punishments accordingly. But something went wrong. Due to a programming error, Kore's standards were set too high and he invariably judges everyone to be evil.Sessine wrote:No, he is. Nobody understands how it can be that he is, it's a puzzle and a huge contradiction, but he is a paladin. That's been established beyond doubt. Thunt really likes setting puzzles...sunphoenix wrote:Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
My problem is I 'm calling bogus on Kore still being a paladin...maybe an Anti-Paladin. NO paladin I've ever seen played could get away with the patiently EVIL acts he regularly commits...REGARDLESS of any curse! I play more paladins that any other character class.
Kore is NO PALADIN!
- EatsAPeach
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
If THunt says Kore is unbeatable in combat, then he is unbeatable in combat. THunt is even more powerful than Herbert in this universe. This just means he must be beaten some other way, and it probably has something to do with him being simultaneously a paladin and a psycho killer. He's old. He's probably alive way past his time. Break his curse and he will crumble to dust, probably wheezing "Thank you" as he goes. And I think Forgath is about to clue us in on how Kore became The Cursed Scourge of the Realm?
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Well you are.BuildsLegos wrote:Alright, sorry. But I can't imagine the bonus applies to the tower shield, there are a few inches between it and Kore's face/chest. If I'm wrong about even this, Stryk's post is still offensively suicidal.sunphoenix wrote:Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
In end 3.5 (that goblins is in)
AC (How hard you are to hit) is just 1 number.
10 +/-
Size modifications
Dexterity bonus
Armor bonus
Shiled bonus
Magic item bonus
And active spell bonus.
By beating that number people hit you and you. Lose life.
Else they miss.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
So Kore may be the THuntverse's Santa figure? Maybe chimneys are his weakness, or coal? Leave him a plate of cookies and he judges you Lawful Good?J!!! wrote: Well you see, back in 2801, the Friendly Paladin Company built a robotic Paladin to determine who'd been evil and who'd been good and distribute punishments accordingly. But something went wrong. Due to a programming error, Kore's standards were set too high and he invariably judges everyone to be evil.
"I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the International Communist Conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."
--Jack D. Ripper, Gen. USAF, ca. 1963
--Jack D. Ripper, Gen. USAF, ca. 1963
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
You dare bribe Santa? He's going to shove coal so far up your stocking you'll be coughing up diamonds!
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
EatsAPeach wrote:So Kore may be the THuntverse's Santa figure? Maybe chimneys are his weakness, or coal? Leave him a plate of cookies and he judges you Lawful Good?J!!! wrote: Well you see, back in 2801, the Friendly Paladin Company built a robotic Paladin to determine who'd been evil and who'd been good and distribute punishments accordingly. But something went wrong. Due to a programming error, Kore's standards were set too high and he invariably judges everyone to be evil.
Same way you trap any slow unbeatable force of nature- get it onto a bridge over a very deep chasm (which this realm seems to have plenty of), then when he's partway across it, knock the bridge out from underneath him. Even if he lives, he'll be off your backs for a long while.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
well setting aside the fact that none of them have any levels in demolitions engineering, the last guy who tried to play horatius and delay kore didn't do so well.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Yes, I love it! I love you! Forgath & Minmax just need to trade weapons; while Minmax smashes the bridge with the Hammace, Forgath uses his ring and super-beard block the bolts. If the bridge breaks, Minmax might need to grab Forgath; if not, they tag-team Kore and put the Kinslayer to good use. Either way, they both gain 2 levels.Master TMO wrote:Same way you trap any slow unbeatable force of nature- get it onto a bridge over a very deep chasm (which this realm seems to have plenty of), then when he's partway across it, knock the bridge out from underneath him. Even if he lives, he'll be off your backs for a long while.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
D&D doesn't work like real life.BuildsLegos wrote:Alright, sorry. But I can't imagine the bonus applies to the tower shield, there are a few inches between it and Kore's face/chest. If I'm wrong about even this, Stryk's post is still offensively suicidal.sunphoenix wrote:Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
Aaaaaand: It's magic!
@J!!! : Lay on hands is not exactly a spell, more a feature. A paladin can use the spell to heal himself up to level*cha modifier HP. Maybe Kore can use it only for 14hp.
He healed at least 5hp on Chief but I'm not sure if he got him to 0 or more (Chief seems able to move, it may be more). If he had wanted to heal him more, he could have use CLW and keep LoH for himself. CLW can't heal more than 13 HP.
No idea about what damage he had to heal on himself because of the rope, maybe only 1 in order to get that rope away...
But no need of theorycrafting, the use of LoH instead of CLW could be only a narration choice from Thunt
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
...Now I really want them to finally get Kore's helmet off and attack his unarmored head, only to find that they can't, because his armor class is the same without it.Quild wrote:D&D doesn't work like real life.BuildsLegos wrote:Alright, sorry. But I can't imagine the bonus applies to the tower shield, there are a few inches between it and Kore's face/chest. If I'm wrong about even this, Stryk's post is still offensively suicidal.sunphoenix wrote:Bonuses to hit creature apply regardless of how armored they are... thats not how the 3.5 system works. +7 to hit creatures of your race is just that... not +7 to hit naked creatures of your race.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Did anyone else find it interesting that Minmax realizes Kore is a dwarf? Nobody used the word "dwarf" on the last page, so Kore must be getting fairly close for Minmax to be able to discern his race. I mean, in some of the panels last time we saw him, he was way bigger than the goblins, so the only way I can think of for Minmax to tell he's a dwarf would be his relative girth.
Here's Kore in front of Chief: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11022010-2/
And here's Forgath with Thaco: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11222013/
It seems to me that Kore is quite a bit bigger than Forgath. I'm sure people brought up Kore's size three years ago, and maybe Thunt said it was for dramatic effect or whatever, but based on the evidence we have, it seems odd that Minmax would identify Kore as a dwarf, especially without the full beard. I expect that he's close enough now for us to actually see him properly in the next page, though that makes me wonder why he hasn't been shooting until now. I know, I'm being really nit-picky, but I found it interesting.
Also, that last panel is pretty great. I want a Minmax hug.
Here's Kore in front of Chief: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11022010-2/
And here's Forgath with Thaco: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11222013/
It seems to me that Kore is quite a bit bigger than Forgath. I'm sure people brought up Kore's size three years ago, and maybe Thunt said it was for dramatic effect or whatever, but based on the evidence we have, it seems odd that Minmax would identify Kore as a dwarf, especially without the full beard. I expect that he's close enough now for us to actually see him properly in the next page, though that makes me wonder why he hasn't been shooting until now. I know, I'm being really nit-picky, but I found it interesting.
Also, that last panel is pretty great. I want a Minmax hug.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
You know. I never thought about it but Big Ears never detected any noticeable amount of evil from Kore, none that he mentioned anyways. I suppose he could be hiding his alignment but given his mind set he probably wouldn't use it as he is the good guy.
Oh gods you're right.Godbot wrote:...Now I really want them to finally get Kore's helmet off and attack his unarmored head, only to find that they can't, because his armor class is the same without it.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Looks quite hard this puzzle, unless we're still missing a few facts/points about it.
the 'wall' or 'door' with the icons on is flat at the bottom, where as the blackness is apparantly curved.
If they were stones, I'd have thought they'd be loose, and seeing as their is a line of them suspended on the wall, it seems likely they're stuck.
They could be holes, spikes may poke through them. For what reason, I don't know.
It looks like they might join up and go in a complete circle/door shape. They possibly continue behind the two grey pillars. To me this may suggest some sort of boundary. Maybe if you cross the boundary, the gates open and you step in to solve the puzzle. It could be accompanied by some disembodied voice to tell them what to do.
If I was there, I'd try literally taking the key and putting it in the keyhole, just incase it was one of those sorts of tricks and those icons were real. I doubt it'd be that easy though.
I wonder if the blackness is just an artistic... quirk? To save having to draw all the icons on the side. The problem with this is if you look at this image that WastesTime postedSessine wrote:
As for the puzzle in this latest strip, I am looking at those bars. When you see them from the front, it seems they're bowed out quite a distance, as if to keep adventurers from touching the puzzle pieces. However, notice the other view we get, two panels on, from the side. There's blackness just inside the bars.
► Show Spoiler
I also thought stones, maybe to throw at the icons to select them (like some sort of PIN code). Maybe they have to select the key icon or something.Sessine wrote: And those two rows of ... stones? pressure sensors? whatever they are... they have to do something.
If they were stones, I'd have thought they'd be loose, and seeing as their is a line of them suspended on the wall, it seems likely they're stuck.
They could be holes, spikes may poke through them. For what reason, I don't know.
It looks like they might join up and go in a complete circle/door shape. They possibly continue behind the two grey pillars. To me this may suggest some sort of boundary. Maybe if you cross the boundary, the gates open and you step in to solve the puzzle. It could be accompanied by some disembodied voice to tell them what to do.
If I was there, I'd try literally taking the key and putting it in the keyhole, just incase it was one of those sorts of tricks and those icons were real. I doubt it'd be that easy though.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Well of course he's bigger than the goblins, goblins are a small race, dwarves are medium, same as humans, they just replace about 8 inches of height for a good bit of width.lonely_cube wrote:Did anyone else find it interesting that Minmax realizes Kore is a dwarf? Nobody used the word "dwarf" on the last page, so Kore must be getting fairly close for Minmax to be able to discern his race. I mean, in some of the panels last time we saw him, he was way bigger than the goblins, so the only way I can think of for Minmax to tell he's a dwarf would be his relative girth.
Here's Kore in front of Chief: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11022010-2/
And here's Forgath with Thaco: http://www.goblinscomic.org/11222013/
It seems to me that Kore is quite a bit bigger than Forgath. I'm sure people brought up Kore's size three years ago, and maybe Thunt said it was for dramatic effect or whatever, but based on the evidence we have, it seems odd that Minmax would identify Kore as a dwarf, especially without the full beard. I expect that he's close enough now for us to actually see him properly in the next page, though that makes me wonder why he hasn't been shooting until now. I know, I'm being really nit-picky, but I found it interesting.
Also, that last panel is pretty great. I want a Minmax hug.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Yeah, in D&D, helmets are usually just a slot for magical gear, like a helmet of water breathing, or a Dwarven Boulder Helmet (which actually DOES help your AC, but only a +2 for Critical hit confirmation rolls, you're still just as easy to hit, but you have a bit of extra protection against critical hits (Very important against vorpal, Sharpness or Burst weapons)Godbot wrote: ...Now I really want them to finally get Kore's helmet off and attack his unarmored head, only to find that they can't, because his armor class is the same without it.
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning...where the seas sleep and the rivers dream. People made of smoke, and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger. Somewhere there's injustice. Somewhere else, the tea is getting Cold. C'mon Ace, we've got work to do! - The Doctor (Sylvester McCoy, last line in the old series)
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
I know, that's not really my point. What I was trying to say was that Kore looks like he's a lot bigger than Forgath, who's the only dwarf we can really compare Kore to in terms of size. Looking at the links I gave, Forgath looks like he's barely bigger than Thaco, but Kore looks twice as tall as Chief, which would make him closer to Minmax's height. There are tons of pages, including the newest one, that show Forgath is a good head shorter than Minmax.vonpenguin wrote:Well of course he's bigger than the goblins, goblins are a small race, dwarves are medium, same as humans, they just replace about 8 inches of height for a good bit of width.
Even if Kore and Forgath are the same size though, my point stands that Kore must be quite a bit closer than he was in the last page for Minmax to visually identify his race.
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
That was already clear when he animated and spoke the the dead teller. A paladin does not animate dead, even if it is only for interrogation and if it is only a dead evil being. That is necromancy.sunphoenix wrote:Kore is NO PALADIN!
Still, it seems he got some crazy prestige class which still uses some of the paladin features, since he got lay on hands. I think if there wasn't anything that fit to this, Thunt just created it.
For example Insanadin, Necroladin, Fallen paladin or posessed paladin. Dropping your former good god and picking a dark, evil one instead maybe. Or deep inside Kore wants to get the demon controlling him also get trapped inside the axe, therefore searching for it. Would also fit for his IME, as there are souls chained to him. Soul stealing/torturing screams so much for a demon being involved, it would surprise me if there wasn't any.
Would allow some kind of Darth Vader end, with him saying "Thanks for freeing me", then he dies.
- suntiger745
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Re: 17 Dec 2013 - "Brother!"
Well. Hope Forgath has the wits to ask for Minmax racist axe before he goes off to delay Kore long enough for the others to escape.