December 2 Update: Twitter

[scienceboyroy]

ETA: I look at it the same way I do when a book I've been impatient for is delayed. Even if there was a nasty cliffhanger end to the previous book (Changes/Ghost Story - dammit, Jim Butcher!) I know I'd rather have a GOOD follow-up than a timely one.

Yes! Exactly!

Also, the Kingkiller Chronicles. First book: 2006. Second book: 2011 (I think). Third book: ??? (not 2014).

[Dariune]

Hi all

Long time lurker and (very) occasional poster.

This thread is really, really depressing. Especially considering this forum usually has a lot more tolerance, decency and respect than many other forums I lurk in.

But in this thread I am seeing a lot of people being shitty to each other. Be it people towards Thunt or Thunt towards people (At least he apolagised!)

In my opinion it is fine to be frustrated that a comic is late or that there is filler in place of the comic. We all get frustrated with these kinds of things, from unbundling socks to find they are not matched, to realising there are less crisps (Potato Chips) in the bag you just bought, than there should be.

But this is Thunts comic. Thunts forum. Thunts schedule and he, thankfully, has been willing to share all of these with us. It is not our right to have the comic. It is not even our right, once Thunt has confirmed his schedule, to demand that he keep to it. It is not our right to tell Thunt how to do his job, live his life or organise his logistics. If it upsets you, stop reading. THAT is your right. But complaining to Thunt about the lateness of his free comic is, in my humble opinion, unfair and a bit entitled.

You could complain about Tempts Fate with much more authority because that was paid for but not the main comic. (Still a bit disgruntled about that personally)

I do think Thunts initial reply was way too harsh and his brag about his comic perhaps a little daft. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise Thunt was having a bad day and was genuinely offended by the post he replied to. And being that he is, as far as I know, only human you would think his fans could let the occasional emotional slip go.

But instead all I am seeing loads of comments about how comics are equal to or better than his. I agree that his comment was uncalled for but so are the multitude of comments replying to that one part of his comment. I can't imagine how upsetting that might be for him after all the complaining about his schedule to then have a bunch of (perhaps unintentionally) insulting comments on the quality of his artwork or people calling him out on a comment he already apolagised for.

So, in short, can we not back off now and just appreciate what we get? And maybe cut the man some slack?

TLDR: A lurkey* with no authority or merit decides to voice his unwanted opinion which in a nutshell is, back off!

*I mistyped this and thought it was funny so left it.

Edit: You can see why I normally lurk. In the written word I am terrible at getting my point across and more often than not, tend to come across as a bit of an arrogant douche. I hope you an see where I am coming from here

[extrabigmehdi]

Frankly , it doesn't matter too much what all we think, I just hope that a new exciting update would come soon, and that Thunt is working on it.
I just want to know what's happen next in the story, and with stimulating graphics.

I see someone cited the comic "Phoenix Requiem" among his many comparison examples. Despite I found the graphics of that comic very good , I was annoyed by the excessive chatting between characters , and the slow pacing of the story. I remind after reading some page, I thought "enough" , it's a bit dull for my taste. Good graphics is not enough to make a compelling story. And a comic shouldn't only be judged by it's graphics.

[vector010]

@Starling:

While drowtales is VERY pretty artwork, to say it's just as detailed as Goblins is misleading. From my artists eye, it seems to me that it's actually a lot simpler, both in layout an drawing style.

Thunts artwork is more cartoony, and his coloring is a little sloppier, but overall his lineart and composition are much more dynamic. That's what I would honestly say is thunts biggest strength in his style, he has incredibly expressive and dynamic linework.

Were I trying to mimic, drowtales style would come out a lot quicker than goblins style.

@Nerre: Thunt had a colorist once upon a time. He started around the "it's a sunny day" biscuit arc. He was doing awesome, but he couldn't handle the pace and had to quit. There's probably more to the story than that, but that's what I recall.

Don't really want to jump in on the whole argument thing, but just wanted to say, from an artists perspective, Thunt's line work is phenomenal. It's hard to tell just how much from looking at the finished product, but I know every time I watch him draw live I just sit in awe saying to myself "I wish I could do line work like that." I suppose it is an easy thing to overlook though if you haven't spent a long time looking at art and design in an extremely critical fashion.

[Ghormagon]

Ya know, I tried my best to not jump into the forums again, but this one I couldn't believe when I read it.

SGTDude, you say you want mods who can modify other people's posts to say offending, antagonistic things. Tell you what, why don't we tag your posts with "arrogant, obnoxious jarhead"? How does that work for you.

THunt, seriously, whether you like his posts or not, by acknowledging them as credible, and finding something to flambast him for, you are dismissing his points. Seriously, if you can't take a critique, don't go public with your work. You know as well as anyone, when you are inviting comments from the online public, you will receive the gamut of respectful to rude to ignorant to offensive to spiteful. Doesn't make it right by any means, but that's the real world.

You decided to change your schedule to once every 5 days, which I really respected you for. It must have been a really tough decision to make and execute. Unfortunately, it didn't last long before you started missing deadlines again. Which wouldn't be a big deal, except for finding out you are creating and maintaining twitter accounts (in one form or another) for Goblins characters, drawing comic sketches of hamburger hands, etc. I mean, the whole purpose of moving to a 5 day schedule was to make life easier on you, and then you fill in the extra time with more stuff that was challenging your time? You've said that sometimes Danielle sometimes sleeps on the couch beside your desk while you work. It goes without saying, Danielle is one h*** of an amazing woman!!! So, let me ask you this. Once moving to a 5 day schedule, was the intent not to have more time for your own personal life, recreation and marriage?

THunt, you really need to take a look at what you have going on here. Your loyal fanbase, the ones that ostracize anyone who doesn't agree with them on the forums, are counterproductive to what you are trying to achieve with Goblins. You get paid by the number of clicks/views, or whatever, by the companies who are advertising on your site. Some of your fans, with their gross behavior, work against that if people choose to read your forums. "Hey, this post says this is like one big family, that's Awesome! Wait, now this post is being a right arrogant jerk because he disagrees, wow not much of a family, unless you agree with the majority."

As far as throwing down the gauntlet and asking what other one man show can do all this for a comic with the same quality? Guess what, your shading usually comes late, colors are sometimes incomplete, and you have a real challenge meeting your own deadlines. Please clarify where the quality comes in? Your story arcs and writing are amazing, hands down, no question. If you want to talk about the finished product at update time, you might want to take another look. If you can't do it all yourself, get a partner. Maybe there's a reason most other webcomics are a duo and/or team rather than just one guy trying to kill himself to get it done on his shoulders.

Most of you on these forums seem to be really good, decent people. Why don't you speak against some of the other forumites who are being jerks? I mean, I've read post after post about someone being a jerk about how they critique THunt's stuff and everyone pulls together to call them down for it, but no one gets called out of they are being a jerk thinking they are defending THunt? Last I saw from THunt's posts, he wasn't really happy about people being jerks on his behalf, because that's not the image he sees for himself. So, if you are his loyal fanbase, does it not matter to you what he wants, or what he sees as acceptable behavior on his behalf in the forums for his comic?

I am positive I will get flambasted for this post, but you know what, go ahead. If it makes you people feel better to hammer down on the those who can speak the truth, rather than supporting the source of your fandom to be a better artist, give 'er. You're just proving the points I've made above.

[Kore]

You get paid by the number of clicks/views, or whatever, by the companies who are advertising on your site. Some of your fans, with their gross behavior, work against that if people choose to read your forums. "Hey, this post says this is like one big family, that's Awesome! Wait, now this post is being a right arrogant jerk because he disagrees, wow not much of a family, unless you agree with the majority."

You make mistake in type of forum this is.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/09172005/

Many here empathize with goblins and other monsters. The seeds of evil have grown within them. Therefore many are into savage fighting and intolerance, that sort of thing entertains them, like watching a gladiatorial combat.

If you really want a better world of respect and tolerance, you should help me destroy evil.

[Wolfie]

Ghormagon,

- We've been trying. albeit not very clearly, to get people to tone down on their complaints about the comic. Not to stop, because there have been some very pertinent points made. Also, we urge everyone to at least try to keep their tone civil and nice when talking to one another.

- Your comment to SGTdude is uncalled for. Just because his nickname says SGT dude doesn't give you the right to call him a jarhead and other names. Rule Number One in the Forum Rules list

- All of your points have, at one point or another, been told to THunt, and he has replied to them as best he could. Please refer to the FAQ located at the top of Discussion Forum topics list.

I am not flambasting you, but do try to keep your tone a bit more civil.

To everyone else:

We do appreciate the criticisms that you have regarding the comic, update times, and everything else.

Yes the comic gets pushed back, but not nearly as much as it used to.

Yes, there are filler comics once in a while. Other comics go on regular hiatus whereas THunt tries not to, if possible.

Yes, we can be pretty fanatic about Goblins and defending THunt. It doesn't mean that we don't see his faults, it means we understand what's going on.

Every critique that has been brought up has been gone over, since the forum's inception, with every delayed comic and filler page, ad nauseum. Trust me on this. THunt knows what's going on, and is working as best he can on finding solutions to the objections presented. However, he is human. He has faults. He also has a life. Give him some room to breathe, have a little patience, and enjoy Goblins.

Again, please refer to the forum rules and the FAQ for additional information if you need to.

-------

[mod="Wolfie"]Now, please knock off the Critique War.[/mod]

[Ghormagon]

Hi Wolfie,

Thank you for telling me at length how I've violated the rules of the forum. I direct you to SGTDude's third post on page 1 of this thread. Funny, I don't see any responses from any admins correcting his behavior as you've taken the time to correct mine. I don't see where I've used any abusive or offensive language, other than to follow through with SGT's suggestion to be used on someone else. Seems a little lop-sided, don't you think?

Item's 1 & 9 of the Forum Rules, I think this kind of stuff falls into, no?

[Wolfie]

Hi Wolfie,

Thank you for telling me at length how I've violated the rules of the forum. I direct you to SGTDude's third post on page 1 of this thread. Funny, I don't see any responses from any admins correcting his behavior as you've taken the time to correct mine. I don't see where I've used any abusive or offensive language, other than to follow through with SGT's suggestion to be used on someone else. Seems a little lop-sided, don't you think?

How do you know that someone hasn't said something to him privately? I simply responded to your post directly here because it also pertains to the commenters in the thread. It is also a bit hard, 3 pages after the fact, to reprimand someone in the thread. especially if we didn't catch it going through the first time. Besides, two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, I didn't tell you at length how you violated the rules. I pointed out three things and only one of them was a direct "violation". The first was to point out your tone and the third was to point out that your critique has been noted, and precedented by others in the past few years.


I am asking that EVERYONE follow the rules and try to keep a civil tone. Follow the rules as outlined in the Rules thread and refer to the FAQ if needed. If you have a specific issue with another forumite, report it to a Moderator for that forum, and, if needed, to an Admin. If you have a question on whether a post is proper, report it as well.

[Davis8488]

It's a shame so many threads are incapable of remaining germane. I truly feel like those of you who wish to complain about the comic in general would find a separate thread a more civil place for such a discussion, as those who are the stoutest supporters of the comic would not accidentally come across posts they find inflammatory. Of course, there is always the possibility that such posts are meant to be inflammatory, in which case you would ignore any advice given in the interest of preserving peace.

[Ghormagon]

Seriously? Now you are going to call me stupid, after correcting my language and referencing the Forum Rules? Uhm, aren't you one of the admins, who is supposed to be keeping that kind of comments and stuff in check? Or is it a matter of so long as you cater to the humor of the admins, you're ok, whether you are "following the rules" or not? If you go through the thread from the top, SGTDude's post (the one you thought was funny) was mocking the guy for his opinion. An opinion coming from a fan who appreciates THunt's work, which is why he reads it. I call you on that, and that makes me stupid?

Wow...

[WearsHats]

Let's see. You came in here, insulted a forum member, proceeded to insult the entire forum community, told us you didn't expect us to listen to anything you'd said, went on a rant against Thunt, followed that up with a whole bunch of unsolicited advice on how he should be doing his job (the exact thing that people in this thread were asked not to do, and then capped it off by telling us that any punishment for violating the rules would be pointless because you were determined to martyr yourself. And then came back to pick a fight with an admin. What word would you use to describe that?

[Wolfie]

Can we just stop? And return the thread back to the topic? Which is the Twitter Goblins update?

[WearsHats]

Can we just stop? And return the thread back to the topic? Which is the Twitter Goblins update?

Yes. Good call. Sorry.

[Wolfie]

Can we just stop? And return the thread back to the topic? Which is the Twitter Goblins update?

Yes. Good call. Sorry.

That was in general Wears and not directed at you. Sorry if it looked like it was.

[Ghormagon]

Let's see. You came in here, insulted a forum member, proceeded to insult the entire forum community, told us you didn't expect us to listen to anything you'd said, went on a rant against Thunt, followed that up with a whole bunch of unsolicited advice on how he should be doing his job (the exact thing that people in this thread were asked not to do, and then capped it off by telling us that any punishment for violating the rules would be pointless because you were determined to martyr yourself. And then came back to pick a fight with an admin. What word would you use to describe that?

1) I used the same treatment on a forum member that the same forum member said to use on someone else. If you find that insulting, then go to the source and take it up with the person who started it all by saying it should be used on another forum member.
2) I commented that the forum community has alot of good people, although some not quite so much. Re-read my post again.
3) I wasn't giving advice. THunt posted previously on his blog that he wants to be the better person, and doesn't feel good about himself when he stoops to a person's level who is less than civil, or not thinking through what he is typing. THunt started his post acknowledging the guy's valid points, and then hammered him. Isn't that contradictive to what he was saying on the blog?
4) The punishment would be pointless because the rules aren't being followed/respected universally. Enforcing the rules in this case is a measure used to silence a person who isn't agreeing with everyone else. Which is exactly what is happening here. If I was this same jerk that you are addressing, I would have responded to Wolfie's post the same way SGTDude addressed the guy at the begining of this thread. With obnoxious arrogance.
5) As far as picking a fight with an admin, I think you are mistaken. No one reigned in SGT for being rude and mocking the other guy, using an exageration of speech and the whole nine yards. I point it out speaking like an intelligent human being, actually using words found in the english language, without swearing, get my hand slapped, and call the admin on it and for that I am called stupid. That's picking a fight with an admin?

Just so you know, Wolfie PM'd me on this "fight" you are referring to. I would like to post it in open forum, but I won't because that would be rude. If Wolfie decides to re-post here for clarification, that's up to Wolfie. I think you need to ask yourself, is this about me saying something really offensive, or is it about you being a very loyal fan of THunt who is offended by any words spoken that do not praise him.

DOH! Been a few posts while I was typing this. Not trying to rehash it!

[SGTdude]

I hope this helps:

Did I mock another post for their opinion? Yes. And I will gladly have a verbal throwdown on how completely useless that opinion was in any medium that is deemed appropriate without regrets.

I did however say something I shouldnt have said. I should not have cursed in here and, although it may seem like a weak excuse, sometimes my "Army words" slip out. I should not have used the word I did because it really is far more insulting than I intended to be. I was attempting to show that the original post that started this mess was quite rude and unnecessary. But my response, because of the implementation of a curse word, was more insulting and more unnecessary. For that I apologize sincerely.

I understand that people don't always agree with THunt or his methods (or his philosophies about life in my case), but this is not a thread for that. This is a thread to talk about the comic. If you want to make a thread called "THunt sucks cuz he doesn't update it on time", go ahead. Unless the mods stop you of course. But to come into a community thread and ransack it with rudeness is just not appropriate. And again, I admit to partaking in said rudeness.

I will try much more diligently to not let language slip again.

Thanks

[Wolfie]

Just so you know, Wolfie PM'd me on this "fight" you are referring to. I would like to post it in open forum, but I won't because that would be rude. If Wolfie decides to re-post here for clarification, that's up to Wolfie. I think you need to ask yourself, is this about me saying something really offensive, or is it about you being a very loyal fan of THunt who is offended by any words spoken that do not praise him.

DOH! Been a few posts while I was typing this. Not trying to rehash it!

Just to follow up on this part: I did PM you, b/c what I had to say was specific to you and not the thread.

Also, to clarify again, we don't mind critique. THunt even welcomes it... to a point. However, multiple forumites come through here only to re-hash the same critiques, over and over and over again, even after the problem has been acknowledged and is trying to be worked on.

Once or twice is alright. Hundreds of times? That's overkill and is enough to make anyone irritated.

@SGTdude: thank you for that.

Now I'm done. Back to our regularly scheduled LOL over a grumpy Thaco trying to figure out these new-fangled contraptions.

[Tofu]

Was that a flame war? Seemed flamey to me ...

[Wolfie]

Was that a flame war? Seemed flamey to me ...

Flames?

nope, no flames here... Slight singeing and some smoke, but no outright flames. Those usually take at least 3 mods, two admins, and a really loud voice to get rid of.

[PatchworkBBC]

"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

As another poster mentioned, the biggest draw (for me) of this comic is the story. I would quite happily trade a small reduction in the level of detail, shading, etc. for a reliable bi-weekly (or dare I dream, tri=weekly?) update schedule. The intricate artwork impresses while I'm looking at it, but the story sticks around in my head.

For reasons I can't really justify, I like to compare Goblins to Watchmen. Watchmen is a little over 400 pages long, and at one page every five days it would take a little over five and a half years to finish. According to Wikipedia (that most unimpeachable of sources), Alan Moore started thinking about the story in 1985, and he and Dave Gibbons had it written, illustrated, edited, and on the shelf by late '87. The art isn't super detailed (thankfully, what with Big Blue and Little Blue), but it does what it's supposed to: help tell the story.

It's probably pretty apparent that I'm not particularly artistic, myself.

[Mindlink]

Hi all

Long time lurker and (very) occasional poster.

This thread is really, really depressing. Especially considering this forum usually has a lot more tolerance, decency and respect than many other forums I lurk in.

But in this thread I am seeing a lot of people being shitty to each other. Be it people towards Thunt or Thunt towards people (At least he apologised!)
...

I agree with most of what you wrote, apart from your start. I just don't see it as being so bad or depressing really, but maybe I'm just jaded from decades of online message boards... Yes, these boards are usually insanely more polite and friendly than most of what's out there compared to this (and and a few other) thread, but it's still pretty tame. Even though there have been rude comments from both moderators, "defenders" and "complainers", I haven't felt any REAL hostility between them. And that's what I like about the Goblins community, we argue and debate and nobodys perfect, but everything still reamins civil, just like a family. And just like in a family, the "adults" (moderators, THunt) can say hurtfull and mean things, just as the "kids" (regular users) (what would be the "in-laws" I wonder...? The webmaster? Hosting services?) can react stupidly and insult back. You take the good, you take the bad, you take the little-green-short-guy-with-fake-moustache, and that's the facts of...something.
So, everyone, just be happy that we are together in this unique setting in time & space wherein we can experience the gift of art unfolding before us (or, through us, if you're THunt), be patient, accept the complaints as praise, and always assume the best.

[Mindlink]

Let's see. You came in here, insulted a forum member, proceeded to insult the entire forum community, told us you didn't expect us to listen to anything you'd said, went on a rant against Thunt, followed that up with a whole bunch of unsolicited advice on how he should be doing his job (the exact thing that people in this thread were asked not to do, and then capped it off by telling us that any punishment for violating the rules would be pointless because you were determined to martyr yourself. And then came back to pick a fight with an admin. What word would you use to describe that?

Strange... that's certainly not my impression of what he posted at all, I didn't see any insults against anyone(the comment against SGT was just a light joke based on what SGT wrote and I didn't take it as what he actually thought about SGT), or a rant against anyone, or giving "unsolicited advice" (he did give his opinion, which is everyones right of course, and is usually never meant as anything but an expression of caring for the person they give advice to, i.e. being kid) or picking a fight with an admin (not that it should matter if he did)

[SGTdude]

I am not going to attack or defend the "light joke" that was in fact neither.

Im just going to say you really dont want to call a marine a jarhead. I didn't even do that when I was active duty Army.

Seriously, I recommend against it as strongly as I would against dropping a certain racial epithet around black people, only this one is more dangerous because the former group is trained to hurt people.


To be absolutely clear, I am not speaking out of offense but to keep civilians (who understand like...nothing about what its like to be military) from making a grievous faux paus.

Now can we please get back to our regularly scheduled comic discussion?

[Gryphonic]

@ SGTdude: I used to think that was more a joking term between services, not a seriously offensive one. Good to know!

On topic: Kore unfollowed this lot after the steel bikini shot. He's been so determined to 'follow' the GAP that it's odd he was repelled by the sight of boobs - human boobs no less. He has more issues that I thought... Does this mean Kin could drive him away by flashing? Or will the conflicting desires to kill the monster and avoid the cleavage short circuit his brain for a few minutes?