Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?

[Davis8488]

Well... Some have argued that Klik is more female, being the primary generator of Jr, with Dies being the secondary contributor of Jr's creation. It has also been suggested, perhaps in the old forums, that this page may be referring to Klik rather than Saves a Fox, which would definitely make Klik female if it is true.

[Liesmith]

If you're going to use Junior as an analogue for childbirth to determine gender, you have to consider Dies the female of the pairing: Klik deposited his "genetic" material into Dies, who carried Junior to term. Since Klik is a Construct, though, he doesn't have a gender. I think most of us have been using male pronouns because using "it" as a pronoun has insulting connotations in English.

[Davis8488]

But look at the seahorse. Male and female aren't decided based on which carries the infant to term, but on which party supplies the physical material for the offspring, which in the case was Klik.

I would argue that Klik and Jr are of an all female species, extracting male seed from any other race they choose, and that Jr suffers from an Oedipus (or Electra if you prefer) complex.

[Liesmith]

But look at the seahorse. Male and female aren't decided based on which carries the infant to term, but on which party supplies the physical material for the offspring, which in the case was Klik.

I would argue that Klik and Jr are of an all female species, extracting male seed from any other race they choose, and that Jr suffers from an Oedipus (or Electra if you prefer) complex.

Fair enough about the seahorse example, but I still think that Klik's species is necessarily neuter, since they're constructs. likewise, I wouldn't refer to viruses as all-female because they use material from their hosts in order to reproduce.

[Steelhaven]

I think in the case of viruses, if we're using the "provides material" aspect, they would then be male. They insert their genetics into cells of other organisms, impregnating them as it were.

[Nerre]

I would make the bold assertion, that to be male or female you at least have to be a cell based creatures. Viruses are not.
(Magical metal aren't cell based beings neither, although this is another story, since they are selfaware, sentient, intelligent and above all, magical.)

[BuildsLegos]

Viruses aren't cell-based, they're machines built to spread their genetic information via highjacking the reproductive mechanics of cells. Where as cells are like entire cities (with districts!) that grow & devide with the resources they gather.

[thinkslogically]

Some bacteria have LOADS of genders (I'm not a microbiologist, but I'm pretty sure there's at least 7 bacterial 'sexes'), asexual reproduction is REALLY common in plants, fungi and a load of animals (even sharks! check out parthenogenesis), and then amongst the animals that DO reproduce sexually, a whole load of them are hermaphrodites either for their entire lives (they are functionally male & female at the same time) or are sequentially hermaphroditic (will change sex as they grow).

(Complete aside: Flatworms engage in 'penis fencing' to decide who gets to be the daddy and who has to bear the reproductive cost of making eggs! LINK)

Given all these examples, I have no reason at all to believe that klik needs a gender, and I suspect that the only reason s/he is referred to as 'he' throughout the comic is because calling Klik 'it' would sound massively uncaring on the part of Dies etc. and would probably ruin any sense that they were so close.

[BuildsLegos]

Huh, I must have read a post wrong. I could have sworn somebody misunderstood the nature of a virus, sorry.

[Nerre]

No harm taken.

@thinks: penis fencing...picture get out of my head!

[RedwoodElf]

No harm taken.

@thinks: penis fencing...picture get out of my head!

I see your schwartz is as big as mine!

[SamWiser]

I love the internet. We somehow went from the Bechdel test to hermaphroditic animals.

[Steelhaven]

To... penis jokes?

[Kennerly]

No harm taken.

@thinks: penis fencing...picture get out of my head!

I see your schwartz is as big as mine!

Dick boxing!

[harlequin]

I would make the bold assertion, that to be male or female you at least have to be a cell based creatures...

For the purposes of the bechdel test I'd say a robot that looks like a woman would count. It's easier too with other media when things are voiced, because I'd also count a non-humanoidish creature as female if it had a female-sounding voice (I say female-sounding because half the jobs women voice actors do are imitating pre-pubescent boys). If people had been referring to klik as a 'she' I'd probably count that too.

[warrl]

If people had been referring to klik as a 'she' I'd probably count that too.

It'd be out of character for Dies Horribly, but I could see Thac0 or Complains - if they were involved with Klik - saying something like 'Klik is obviously female - she makes a lot of noise and I don't understand her."

[AntMac]

I would make the bold assertion, that to be male or female you at least have to be a cell based creatures...

For the purposes of the bechdel test I'd say a robot that looks like a woman would count. It's easier too with other media when things are voiced, because I'd also count a non-humanoidish creature as female if it had a female-sounding voice (I say female-sounding because half the jobs women voice actors do are imitating pre-pubescent boys). If people had been referring to klik as a 'she' I'd probably count that too.

I think if someone truly considers themselves a female, that is the end of the discussion, right?.

So, if a Robot ever gets to the I think, therefore I am stage, it will be the merest afterthought for her to say "I think, therefore, I am a woman" and pretty much she will be, to all right thinking people. imo, of course.

[Nerre]

You should take a look at my last comic for the gods school project.
Fits very well to your idea:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 538#p51254

[Steelhaven]

I think if someone truly considers themselves a female, that is the end of the discussion, right?.

At risk of diving into controversy (lets not get into it, I don't think I have access to that forum.) How exactly would we define female anyways, by that point? Objectively, what is "female" if all it takes to be female is a state of mind?

I can buy click being female, but i'm not so certain about robots. They seem very gender-neutral to me.

[Madfox11]

I can buy click being female, but i'm not so certain about robots. They seem very gender-neutral to me.

Not in the computer game Mass Effect 3. I would say EDI considers herself female and so would most players and characters of the game (Mind you, all the other AI in that game, Reapers, Geth and some other minor stuff, are gender-neutral.)

[Liesmith]

I can buy click being female, but i'm not so certain about robots. They seem very gender-neutral to me.

Not in the computer game Mass Effect 3. I would say EDI considers herself female and so would most players and characters of the game (Mind you, all the other AI in that game, Reapers, Geth and some other minor stuff, are gender-neutral.)

It could be argued that EDI was designed to be feminine, as she has a female in-canon voice and naval vessels are traditionally considered "female". The character was was also voiced by an incredibly female robot.

[Thunt]

I quickly zipped through most of this thread, so I missed it if someone else already mentioned this point.

I think it's worth mentioning in this thread that Forgath is a woman. As most of you know, he's a male character played by a female player. I like this because it blurs the line a bit (and confuses the Bechdel test, which is fun). With Forgath, there's no gender stereotypes or signals. It's a contrast to Drowbabe and Yodette who were both female characters played by the same male player. Those female characters employed a TON sexist stereotypes and purposely so.

As a side note, one of the main characters is gay. There was a scene in which he mentions that he's gay, but that scene got cut back when I was writing earlier drafts of the story. It wasn't cut because he mentioned being gay, it was cut because it was a clumsy scene that ultimately lead to an unrelated joke that really wasn't very funny. So the scene never made it into the finished version of the comic and even though the character's sexual orientation is never brought up again, he still said it in an early draft and I still consider it to be a part of his character.

No, I'm not going to tell you who it is at this time. Use your gaydar.

[Unlucky-for-Some]

Geez Thunt - way to make the forum explode

[kida]

No, I'm not going to tell you who it is at this time. Use your gaydar.

► Show Spoiler

My money is on big ears

[Steelhaven]

No, I'm not going to tell you who it is at this time. Use your gaydar.

► Show Spoiler

My money is on big ears

► Show Spoiler

Considering this is Thunt, I find that likely. I'm putting my money on Chief though.

And/or Saral Caine. He and Goblinslayer were pretty close, yeah?