Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
- Davis8488
- Enjoys Chitchat
- Posts: 266
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Well... Some have argued that Klik is more female, being the primary generator of Jr, with Dies being the secondary contributor of Jr's creation. It has also been suggested, perhaps in the old forums, that this page may be referring to Klik rather than Saves a Fox, which would definitely make Klik female if it is true.
CarvesAPumpkin, Level 3 Defender in Capture the Flag
If anything I say offends you I am sorry. It is likely late and I am tired, or I'm upset and I am not thinking straight, and though I sincerely wish I could, I can't express myself in such a way that helps you be less of a crybaby.
If anything I say offends you I am sorry. It is likely late and I am tired, or I'm upset and I am not thinking straight, and though I sincerely wish I could, I can't express myself in such a way that helps you be less of a crybaby.
► Show Spoiler
- Liesmith
- Indulges in Conversation
- Posts: 752
- UStream Username: Liesmith
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
If you're going to use Junior as an analogue for childbirth to determine gender, you have to consider Dies the female of the pairing: Klik deposited his "genetic" material into Dies, who carried Junior to term. Since Klik is a Construct, though, he doesn't have a gender. I think most of us have been using male pronouns because using "it" as a pronoun has insulting connotations in English.
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day. You had a bad day once. Am I right? I know I am. I can tell. You had a bad day and everything changed."
► Show Spoiler
- Davis8488
- Enjoys Chitchat
- Posts: 266
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
But look at the seahorse. Male and female aren't decided based on which carries the infant to term, but on which party supplies the physical material for the offspring, which in the case was Klik.
I would argue that Klik and Jr are of an all female species, extracting male seed from any other race they choose, and that Jr suffers from an Oedipus (or Electra if you prefer) complex.
I would argue that Klik and Jr are of an all female species, extracting male seed from any other race they choose, and that Jr suffers from an Oedipus (or Electra if you prefer) complex.
CarvesAPumpkin, Level 3 Defender in Capture the Flag
If anything I say offends you I am sorry. It is likely late and I am tired, or I'm upset and I am not thinking straight, and though I sincerely wish I could, I can't express myself in such a way that helps you be less of a crybaby.
If anything I say offends you I am sorry. It is likely late and I am tired, or I'm upset and I am not thinking straight, and though I sincerely wish I could, I can't express myself in such a way that helps you be less of a crybaby.
► Show Spoiler
- Liesmith
- Indulges in Conversation
- Posts: 752
- UStream Username: Liesmith
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Fair enough about the seahorse example, but I still think that Klik's species is necessarily neuter, since they're constructs. likewise, I wouldn't refer to viruses as all-female because they use material from their hosts in order to reproduce.Davis8488 wrote:But look at the seahorse. Male and female aren't decided based on which carries the infant to term, but on which party supplies the physical material for the offspring, which in the case was Klik.
I would argue that Klik and Jr are of an all female species, extracting male seed from any other race they choose, and that Jr suffers from an Oedipus (or Electra if you prefer) complex.
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day. You had a bad day once. Am I right? I know I am. I can tell. You had a bad day and everything changed."
► Show Spoiler
-
- Mutters to Themself
- Posts: 39
- UStream Username: Twelvth
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
I think in the case of viruses, if we're using the "provides material" aspect, they would then be male. They insert their genetics into cells of other organisms, impregnating them as it were.
► Show Spoiler
-
- Game Master
- Posts: 4876
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
I would make the bold assertion, that to be male or female you at least have to be a cell based creatures. Viruses are not.
(Magical metal aren't cell based beings neither, although this is another story, since they are selfaware, sentient, intelligent and above all, magical.)
(Magical metal aren't cell based beings neither, although this is another story, since they are selfaware, sentient, intelligent and above all, magical.)
- BuildsLegos
- Indulges in Conversation
- Posts: 906
- UStream Username: BuildsLegos
- Location: So rorery in OKC
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Viruses aren't cell-based, they're machines built to spread their genetic information via highjacking the reproductive mechanics of cells. Where as cells are like entire cities (with districts!) that grow & devide with the resources they gather.
The only one to pay attention to what happens in Goblins.
- thinkslogically
- Game Master
- Posts: 17223
- Location: Florida
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Some bacteria have LOADS of genders (I'm not a microbiologist, but I'm pretty sure there's at least 7 bacterial 'sexes'), asexual reproduction is REALLY common in plants, fungi and a load of animals (even sharks! check out parthenogenesis), and then amongst the animals that DO reproduce sexually, a whole load of them are hermaphrodites either for their entire lives (they are functionally male & female at the same time) or are sequentially hermaphroditic (will change sex as they grow).
(Complete aside: Flatworms engage in 'penis fencing' to decide who gets to be the daddy and who has to bear the reproductive cost of making eggs! LINK)
Given all these examples, I have no reason at all to believe that klik needs a gender, and I suspect that the only reason s/he is referred to as 'he' throughout the comic is because calling Klik 'it' would sound massively uncaring on the part of Dies etc. and would probably ruin any sense that they were so close.
(Complete aside: Flatworms engage in 'penis fencing' to decide who gets to be the daddy and who has to bear the reproductive cost of making eggs! LINK)
Given all these examples, I have no reason at all to believe that klik needs a gender, and I suspect that the only reason s/he is referred to as 'he' throughout the comic is because calling Klik 'it' would sound massively uncaring on the part of Dies etc. and would probably ruin any sense that they were so close.
Games I'm running:
The Wandering Archipelago (D&D 5e)
The Wandering Archipelago (D&D 5e)
- BuildsLegos
- Indulges in Conversation
- Posts: 906
- UStream Username: BuildsLegos
- Location: So rorery in OKC
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Huh, I must have read a post wrong. I could have sworn somebody misunderstood the nature of a virus, sorry.
The only one to pay attention to what happens in Goblins.
-
- Game Master
- Posts: 4876
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
No harm taken.
@thinks: penis fencing...picture get out of my head!
@thinks: penis fencing...picture get out of my head!
- RedwoodElf
- Converses Frequently
- Posts: 526
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
I see your schwartz is as big as mine!Nerre wrote:No harm taken.
@thinks: penis fencing...picture get out of my head!
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning...where the seas sleep and the rivers dream. People made of smoke, and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger. Somewhere there's injustice. Somewhere else, the tea is getting Cold. C'mon Ace, we've got work to do! - The Doctor (Sylvester McCoy, last line in the old series)
-
-
- SamWiser
- Extensively Logorrheic
- Posts: 7225
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
I love the internet. We somehow went from the Bechdel test to hermaphroditic animals.
Thanks to Arch Lich Burns for the avatar, and Mnementh for the mustache.
ÔÇ£Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?ÔÇØ
ÔÇò Terry Pratchett
ÔÇ£Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?ÔÇØ
ÔÇò Terry Pratchett
- Kennerly
- Mutters to Themself
- Posts: 34
- Location: Hicksville, NY
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Dick boxing!RedwoodElf wrote:I see your schwartz is as big as mine!Nerre wrote:No harm taken.
@thinks: penis fencing...picture get out of my head!
-
- Mutters to Themself
- Posts: 26
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
For the purposes of the bechdel test I'd say a robot that looks like a woman would count. It's easier too with other media when things are voiced, because I'd also count a non-humanoidish creature as female if it had a female-sounding voice (I say female-sounding because half the jobs women voice actors do are imitating pre-pubescent boys). If people had been referring to klik as a 'she' I'd probably count that too.Nerre wrote:I would make the bold assertion, that to be male or female you at least have to be a cell based creatures...
-
- Of Few Words
- Posts: 69
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
It'd be out of character for Dies Horribly, but I could see Thac0 or Complains - if they were involved with Klik - saying something like 'Klik is obviously female - she makes a lot of noise and I don't understand her."harlequin wrote:Nerre wrote:If people had been referring to klik as a 'she' I'd probably count that too.
My blog: Alien America - amusing incidents and creative misinterpretations
- AntMac
- Likes to Contribute
- Posts: 207
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
harlequin wrote:For the purposes of the bechdel test I'd say a robot that looks like a woman would count. It's easier too with other media when things are voiced, because I'd also count a non-humanoidish creature as female if it had a female-sounding voice (I say female-sounding because half the jobs women voice actors do are imitating pre-pubescent boys). If people had been referring to klik as a 'she' I'd probably count that too.Nerre wrote:I would make the bold assertion, that to be male or female you at least have to be a cell based creatures...
I think if someone truly considers themselves a female, that is the end of the discussion, right?.
So, if a Robot ever gets to the I think, therefore I am stage, it will be the merest afterthought for her to say "I think, therefore, I am a woman" and pretty much she will be, to all right thinking people. imo, of course.
-
- Game Master
- Posts: 4876
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
You should take a look at my last comic for the gods school project.
Fits very well to your idea:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 538#p51254
Fits very well to your idea:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 538#p51254
-
- Mutters to Themself
- Posts: 39
- UStream Username: Twelvth
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
At risk of diving into controversy (lets not get into it, I don't think I have access to that forum.) How exactly would we define female anyways, by that point? Objectively, what is "female" if all it takes to be female is a state of mind?AntMac wrote: I think if someone truly considers themselves a female, that is the end of the discussion, right?.
I can buy click being female, but i'm not so certain about robots. They seem very gender-neutral to me.
► Show Spoiler
-
- Mutters to Themself
- Posts: 32
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Not in the computer game Mass Effect 3. I would say EDI considers herself female and so would most players and characters of the game (Mind you, all the other AI in that game, Reapers, Geth and some other minor stuff, are gender-neutral.)Steelhaven wrote:I can buy click being female, but i'm not so certain about robots. They seem very gender-neutral to me.
- Liesmith
- Indulges in Conversation
- Posts: 752
- UStream Username: Liesmith
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
It could be argued that EDI was designed to be feminine, as she has a female in-canon voice and naval vessels are traditionally considered "female". The character was was also voiced by an incredibly female robot.Madfox11 wrote:Not in the computer game Mass Effect 3. I would say EDI considers herself female and so would most players and characters of the game (Mind you, all the other AI in that game, Reapers, Geth and some other minor stuff, are gender-neutral.)Steelhaven wrote:I can buy click being female, but i'm not so certain about robots. They seem very gender-neutral to me.
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day. You had a bad day once. Am I right? I know I am. I can tell. You had a bad day and everything changed."
► Show Spoiler
- Thunt
- Draws Goblins
- Posts: 90
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
I quickly zipped through most of this thread, so I missed it if someone else already mentioned this point.
I think it's worth mentioning in this thread that Forgath is a woman. As most of you know, he's a male character played by a female player. I like this because it blurs the line a bit (and confuses the Bechdel test, which is fun). With Forgath, there's no gender stereotypes or signals. It's a contrast to Drowbabe and Yodette who were both female characters played by the same male player. Those female characters employed a TON sexist stereotypes and purposely so.
As a side note, one of the main characters is gay. There was a scene in which he mentions that he's gay, but that scene got cut back when I was writing earlier drafts of the story. It wasn't cut because he mentioned being gay, it was cut because it was a clumsy scene that ultimately lead to an unrelated joke that really wasn't very funny. So the scene never made it into the finished version of the comic and even though the character's sexual orientation is never brought up again, he still said it in an early draft and I still consider it to be a part of his character.
No, I'm not going to tell you who it is at this time. Use your gaydar.
I think it's worth mentioning in this thread that Forgath is a woman. As most of you know, he's a male character played by a female player. I like this because it blurs the line a bit (and confuses the Bechdel test, which is fun). With Forgath, there's no gender stereotypes or signals. It's a contrast to Drowbabe and Yodette who were both female characters played by the same male player. Those female characters employed a TON sexist stereotypes and purposely so.
As a side note, one of the main characters is gay. There was a scene in which he mentions that he's gay, but that scene got cut back when I was writing earlier drafts of the story. It wasn't cut because he mentioned being gay, it was cut because it was a clumsy scene that ultimately lead to an unrelated joke that really wasn't very funny. So the scene never made it into the finished version of the comic and even though the character's sexual orientation is never brought up again, he still said it in an early draft and I still consider it to be a part of his character.
No, I'm not going to tell you who it is at this time. Use your gaydar.
- Unlucky-for-Some
- Enjoys Chitchat
- Posts: 256
- Location: The Middle of Middle-earth
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Geez Thunt - way to make the forum explode
All hail the power of the stick!
- kida
- Gives Speeches
- Posts: 1166
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
Thunt wrote: No, I'm not going to tell you who it is at this time. Use your gaydar.
► Show Spoiler
-
- Mutters to Themself
- Posts: 39
- UStream Username: Twelvth
Re: Does Goblins pass the Bechdel Test?
kida wrote:Thunt wrote: No, I'm not going to tell you who it is at this time. Use your gaydar.► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler