1st November, 2013 - Sorry

[Zephirus]

The five stages of grief. Something tells me he's still on #1 for now but may be quickly moving to #2.
1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

[Sahrial]

I think #2 was probably grabbing the leash, actually. Denial would be when she was explaining to him she was going to stay, and didn't love him, and he tried arguing.

The repetitive asking of "did you tell her I'm sorry" and asking if he should try to go in there seems more like bargaining to me, and depression is already setting in.

Next step, though probably for away, is most likely "I understand I ruined things. All I can do is make sure I never do anything like that again, live my life with this new wisdom, having learned from my mistake, and hope she might be able to forgive me someday. If she can't, then I understand why."

I never liked how linear some people expect the stages to be. The human psyche is fragile and often counter intuitive. Patterns may emerge, but there are never really hard rules, y'know?

[Xavier78]

The five stages of grief. Something tells me he's still on #1 for now but may be quickly moving to #2.
1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Umm I'd like to pint out that the "Bargaining" already happened, at least I'm pretty sure. If anything I'd say he's well into #4 already. He isn't denying anything at this point and the bargaining already happened with the leash part...

[fifty]

I'm beginning to feel the same way as Greydoor. If every little good thing is soon smashed cruelly into unrecognizable powder, why am I still reading this?! CAN NOTHING GOOD STAY GOOD?!

So sad ... but the truth is life is full of misconstrued actions and statements that are misunderstood (even ruby is doing what she is for in her mind the 'right' reasons).. I think were seeing the play out of a set of circumstances that are sad and I really hope that there is some sort of reconciliation but I for one love Goblins because its 'heroes' are as flawed as real people and so I feel more closely their pain and triumphs!

...all that said, come on Tarol give us a break!!!

[Pink Bunny]

The only silver lining I can find is Kin wondering why Ruby said she wears two collars and it clicks that a shift of some type happened, even if she doesn't know precisely what. Just like she figured out the clothing for Minmax. And even then that's very unlikely.

[Nerre]

I am not sure if anybody posted it yet, but I got the feeling that Minmax, out of his despair, will break the psyonic wheels to ensure that everything is reset, not only what the other three kin want. No memory, no item loss. I think he would prefer 1 million more runs before it is finally their turn to win (cause nobody better than them is left) than leavin kin.

[Rascality]

I do wonder what will happen if our Kin stays for the maze reset - the dead are restored to life, so Sapphire will be getting memories back... does that mean Kin will get her necklace and it's associated memories back, too? Or are we sure things that go into the oblivion holes are gone permanently and exempted from the reset mechanics?

[SamWiser]

So, what's the point in continuing to read this comic if every little pleasant thing done to them will be undone?

I was hoping that Chief would pull through and be stronger for it.

I was hoping K'selis would survive.

I was hoping Dies would have the stones to fight for himself.

And I was hoping that Kin and Minmax would be alright, but this is seeming incredibly unlikely. And if we're being honest, discards anything either of them gained.

THunt doesn't seem to be the type of person to build up a story, then destroy everything. Things may seem hopeless, but things have seen hopeless before in this tale, and he has always surprised us. I think there will be a mostly positive ending at some point.

The five stages of grief. Something tells me he's still on #1 for now but may be quickly moving to #2.
1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

The five stages of grief isn't exactly a checklist. There is a chance that he is feeling it right now, as well as a few other stages, or it is completely possible that he might never feel anger over it. Everybody grieves differently. The 5 stages are more like guidelines.

[Quimper]

So, what's the point in continuing to read this comic if every little pleasant thing done to them will be undone?

I was hoping that Chief would pull through and be stronger for it.

I was hoping K'selis would survive.

I was hoping Dies would have the stones to fight for himself.

And I was hoping that Kin and Minmax would be alright, but this is seeming incredibly unlikely. And if we're being honest, discards anything either of them gained.

Yea, this is turning into a real downer-comic. I find myself visiting this site less and less often. The Undoing of KIN+MinMax might just seal the deal permanently for me. ..unless someone pushes Ruby into an Oblivionhole and undoes her scheme soon.

[Centurin]

So, what's the point in continuing to read this comic if every little pleasant thing done to them will be undone?

I was hoping that Chief would pull through and be stronger for it.

I was hoping K'selis would survive.

I was hoping Dies would have the stones to fight for himself.

And I was hoping that Kin and Minmax would be alright, but this is seeming incredibly unlikely. And if we're being honest, discards anything either of them gained.

Haven't been reading long have you? In the end, everyone will die and no one will win, including the readers.

[Unlucky-for-Some]

Haven't been reading long have you? In the end, everyone will die and no one will win, including the readers.

Frankly, the readers have already won.

[Glemp]

I'm beginning to feel the same way as Greydoor. If every little good thing is soon smashed cruelly into unrecognizable powder, why am I still reading this?! CAN NOTHING GOOD STAY GOOD?!

Because I am a leaf on the wind.
Watch how I soar.

[Greydoor]

So, what's the point in continuing to read this comic if every little pleasant thing done to them will be undone?

I was hoping that Chief would pull through and be stronger for it.

I was hoping K'selis would survive.

I was hoping Dies would have the stones to fight for himself.

And I was hoping that Kin and Minmax would be alright, but this is seeming incredibly unlikely. And if we're being honest, discards anything either of them gained.

Haven't been reading long have you? In the end, everyone will die and no one will win, including the readers.

Been reading since the "Nice Crit" comic.

And yeah, I'm fine with despair and conflict. It's what keeps someone invested in the story, and what makes the victories all the sweeter.

Thing is, there needs to be victories for that to happen. There haven't been any in Goblins.

[Failsatmath]

For the people feeling off about characters dying like Chief and K'selis, welcome to D&D. I was in a game last week where the CR of an enemy was suppose to be on the same level as our's, one guy got nuked right off the bat, we noped the f*ck out of that and our AC tank took 1/3 of his HP in one attack of opportunity. Sometimes in D&D you just end up in unwinnable battles

Now with this MM and Kin thing, not sure what's going on in a D&D content. Maybe the player rolled badly or had a lapse in judgement that in hindsight you would see was not such a great idea.

[Glemp]

Been reading since the "Nice Crit" comic.

And yeah, I'm fine with despair and conflict. It's what keeps someone invested in the story, and what makes the victories all the sweeter.

Thing is, there needs to be victories for that to happen. There haven't been any in Goblins.

Because Goblinslayer and Caine are Brassmoon's heroes, fumbles was executed, the MoM has been destroyed, and Dies and Fox- actually, you got me there. That was mostly Biscuit. Still, two storylines out of three ain't bad.

[Destynova]

With this any motivation for Minmax to give up his vendetta with the goblins is gone. Being able to stay with Kin and learn that there is more to life than bashing goblins seems to be too much to ask for. As the meme comic goes 'I'm sad! I'm sad!'

[Greydoor]

For the people feeling off about characters dying like Chief and K'selis, welcome to D&D. I was in a game last week where the CR of an enemy was suppose to be on the same level as our's, one guy got nuked right off the bat, we noped the f*ck out of that and our AC tank took 1/3 of his HP in one attack of opportunity. Sometimes in D&D you just end up in unwinnable battles

Now with this MM and Kin thing going, not sure what's going on in a D&D content. Maybe the player rolled badly or had a lapse in judgement that in hindsight you would see was not such a great idea.

Most DMs will make exceptions if it benefits the plot. It's what's known as fudging a role, and is there to make sure that the campaign is a better story as a whole. Goblins is a story, and while K'selis dying was the perfect way for him to go out, Chief's death has always seemed spiteful. But we aren't talking about that.

We're talking about the(rather abrupt) 180 of the Kin/Minmax relationship, which has been developed over the last two arcs. Why should someone get invested in something when it's doomed to inevitably fail?

Because Goblinslayer is Brassmoon's hero, the MoM has been destroyed, and Fumbles is in a life of complete agony forever.

Goblinslayer died a pathetic animal, yes. But he was still Brassmoon's hero. The MoM being destroyed is technically true because of the oblivion holes. But your last point is what sticks out to me. Let's talk about Fumbles.

Fumbles finally snapped to his senses to run back and save Chief, the very man he had taken the eye of. It was a big, heroic moment and I was absolutely pumped for it. Because Chief's cowardice had been the focus of an arc, and Fumbles would finally be able to be the big hero he always wanted to be. Now, how'd that turn out...?

Oh yeah, Fumbles got immediately taken out and Chief died screaming pantsless in the dirt, with the full knowledge that he failed to protect his friends again. What an uplifting ending to a personal arc of two characters!

[Kennerly]

Minmax's apology keeps falling into an oblivion hole, doesn't it.

[Glemp]

Because Goblinslayer is Brassmoon's hero, the MoM has been destroyed, and Fumbles is in a life of complete agony forever.

Goblinslayer died a pathetic animal, yes. But he was still Brassmoon's hero.

Ha ha no. When MM and Forgath meet him, he's been stripped of his rank, and the Elite guard are in ruins. Depending on how he got out of the sewers, the whole city may know that a single goblin defeated him, and they certainly know that his entire dungeon escaped and was set loose on the city. Let's say he shouldn't be in their good books.

Fumbles finally snapped to his senses to run back and save Chief, the very man he had taken the eye of. It was a big, heroic moment and I was absolutely pumped for it. Because Chief's cowardice had been the focus of an arc, and Fumbles would finally be able to be the big hero he always wanted to be. Now, how'd that turn out...?

Oh yeah, Fumbles got immediately taken out and Chief died screaming pantsless in the dirt, with the full knowledge that he failed to protect his friends again. What an uplifting ending to a personal arc of two characters!

Despite his death, Chief allowed himself to be sacrificed to ensure the GAP's survival. Regardless of whether it worked, it meant that he died as a Chief should - protecting the clan. Fumbles was lucky - he was put out of the fight, rather than killed immediately. I mean, what would you have wanted? A 'We can do it' speech and the defeat of one of the most experienced and powerful Paladins in the land with automatic crossbows, spells, and full body armour?

[Unlucky-for-Some]

Minmax's apology keeps falling into an oblivion hole, doesn't it.

If we weren't talking about such a sad event this comment would make me LOL

[Greydoor]

Ha ha no. When MM and Forgath meet him, he's been stripped of his rank, and the Elite guard are in ruins. Depending on how he got out of the sewers, the whole city may know that a single goblin defeated him, and they certainly know that his entire dungeon escaped and was set loose on the city. Let's say he shouldn't be in their good books.

Despite his death, Chief allowed himself to be sacrificed to ensure the GAP's survival. Regardless of whether it worked, it meant that he died as a Chief should - protecting the clan. Fumbles was lucky - he was put out of the fight, rather than killed immediately. I mean, what would you have wanted? A 'We can do it' speech and the defeat of one of the most experienced and powerful Paladins in the land with automatic crossbows, spells, and full body armour?

I'd have preferred them to grab Chief and run. I know they can't kill Kore, but the point stands that he still did his big heroic moment and got swatted aside like a fly. And that's just what makes me frustrated with it, Chief failed. Not only that, he knows he failed. His very last words are a gurgled apology as he bled to death in front of his friend, watching the others "fight" Kore. It was maddeningly depressing.

[Gryphonic]

I think we're being a little hasty in bemoaning how Minmax and Kin's whole arc has been wasted, and their character development void. We don't know what's going to happen. Even if they split for now, it doesn't mean they'll end that way.
I haven't followed Goblins continually as long as many of you, but I can think of times where what would have been several weeks' worth of updates looked like they were headed for tragedy. I'm willing to wait and see. The story isn't finished.

[AntMac]

Ha ha no. When MM and Forgath meet him, he's been stripped of his rank, and the Elite guard are in ruins. Depending on how he got out of the sewers, the whole city may know that a single goblin defeated him, and they certainly know that his entire dungeon escaped and was set loose on the city. Let's say he shouldn't be in their good books.

Despite his death, Chief allowed himself to be sacrificed to ensure the GAP's survival. Regardless of whether it worked, it meant that he died as a Chief should - protecting the clan. Fumbles was lucky - he was put out of the fight, rather than killed immediately. I mean, what would you have wanted? A 'We can do it' speech and the defeat of one of the most experienced and powerful Paladins in the land with automatic crossbows, spells, and full body armour?

I'd have preferred them to grab Chief and run. I know they can't kill Kore, but the point stands that he still did his big heroic moment and got swatted aside like a fly. And that's just what makes me frustrated with it, Chief failed. Not only that, he knows he failed. His very last words are a gurgled apology as he bled to death in front of his friend, watching the others "fight" Kore. It was maddeningly depressing.

It was saddening and sickening alright. That's what war ought to be though, there can be no glory to carrying sharp bits of metal to let the life and bowels out of strangers with.
It says something sad about humanity, that we can name "heroes" right back to the dawn of our transmitted memories, but no-one can name the person who discovered that willow bark soothed the fevers of people in extremity, no one can name the person who invented nets, or OH, OR FISHING RODS ! ! !, basket-weaving, pottery, OH OH. TOILET PAPER !. Why hasn't that name been honoured forever each and every morning on all lips?.

I can say Gilgamesh and a large part of the world would know who I meant. Lancelot was considered the Acme of honour for being the best fighter, sure he was pure and noble and all that, but that wouldn't have mattered a damn if he was also oft beaten.

Kore would be a sitting duck for heated clay oil bottles. Just saying, let's have us a Dwarf Cookout.

[Arklytte]

So, what's the point in continuing to read this comic if every little pleasant thing done to them will be undone?

I was hoping that Chief would pull through and be stronger for it.

I was hoping K'selis would survive.

I was hoping Dies would have the stones to fight for himself.

And I was hoping that Kin and Minmax would be alright, but this is seeming incredibly unlikely. And if we're being honest, discards anything either of them gained.

This! So very very this!

[an_elegant_gentleman]

omg how sad!!!1 poor minmax WE know u didnt meant it ;_;