10 August 2013, cakes and backrubs

[Hannibal]

What if, now stay with me here, what if our Kin was kidnapped by the others because they wanted to "save" her from making the mistake of being witha human? Serpent becomes prey, check. Friends become enemies, check. Love fuels hate, check. I'm just saying it's possible. Maybe not probable but possible

[Linkcharge]

It does leave the question; why would Minmax then go after the GAP? (As is indicated by the "remember me" Oblivious bubble) You'd think he'd have other priorities.

[willpell]

In view of today's Altsplanation, I can't help but wonder if Zambee's theory might have some Venn-diagram overlap with the truth after all....

Just wondering about the component on the Psi gear machine that is supposedly used for Teleportation and restoration...
I assume it would be there as the mechanism the Maze uses to reset the loosing parties, so if the Kins where to somehow manipulate it to restore Kin 156, perhaps the only way for them to do so would be to "reset" her entirely to the point where she first entered the maze. They'd disable the teleport function on the device so she would respawn in her current position, but the down side would be that she would lose all of her memories and experiences from the last run. She would no longer be in love with Minmax because those feelings didn't truly develop until after the upside down tree room. So with Kin restored to full health but lacking the memories/feelings she had previously developed for Minmax, they will part ways as they originally planned with only Minmax and Forgath knowing how things where. It's a sad outcome, but not as sad as it could be (kin's death).Plus there's always the chance that it would open the way for another quest later down the line with Minmax going looking for her: The quest for Kn.

[Master TMO]

A random thought on the subject of Oblivious- we've seen him pull it forward from (presumably) outside the MoM. There was a question raised as to if Oblivious would still work outside the Maze, and I think we don't know the answer yet. When he pulled it forward, it was still inside the Maze. He may have been outside, but he reached back into the Maze to get it. For all we know, as soon as it left the Maze it reverted to its original configuration. Which is still a pretty useful sword of course. Just not Oblivious.

This situation might be useful to give Minmax a pause before attacking the GAP; "Hey! What happened to my sword!?" and give the GAP time to talk and some sort of peace to be made before Kore appears.

Also, randomly, the 3 Kin Band could be used to take the Jade Teapot home while Kin 156 chooses to stay with MinMax, if they can find a way for them to all exit to the same universe as they'd talked about.

[RidcullyJack]

Also, randomly, the 3 Kin Band could be used to take the Jade Teapot home while Kin 156 chooses to stay with MinMax, if they can find a way for them to all exit to the same universe as they'd talked about.

Yes, this.
Minmax and Forgath seem destined to travel to the entrance of DoDM. The Kins all want to get the teapot, but logically (Kins are logical, right?), what each Kin really wants is for the teapot to be returned to Silkscale. Our Kin doesn't have to be the one who takes it back, if the other 3K are willing to take that (not particularly onerous?) quest.

[Jochi]

Unless the kinship restored Kin to her previous self without her consent ("for her own good") and left minmax and forgath with their memories of what happened.

NO. No Spiderman/Mephisto deals. I expect and hope that THunt has more respect for his fans than Marvel has since Stan Lee left the helm.

[RedwoodElf]

Unless the kinship restored Kin to her previous self without her consent ("for her own good") and left minmax and forgath with their memories of what happened.

NO. No Spiderman/Mephisto deals. I expect and hope that THunt has more respect for his fans than Marvel has since Stan Lee left the helm.

Speaking of Stan Lee, I didn't spot him in the new Wolverine movie...usuallly they make him pretty obvious...

[sunphoenix]

Awe... now THAT is love if ever I've seen it...




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To quote the 'Immortal Bard'..

"Let me not to the marriage of two minds admit impediments.
Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove; O' no!"

"It is an ever -fixed mark, that looks on tempests and is never shaken;
it is the star to every wandering bark, whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken."

"Love's not times fool, though rosy lips and cheeks within his bending sickle's compass come;
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, but bears it out even to the edge of doom."

"If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ... nor NO Man ever loved!"

[Corpsificus]

Judging from her expression in the last panel and her altsplanation, Kin 80 considers the Kin and Minmax relationship miscegenetic. I wonder what she is going to do... She may simply object or she may try to restore the Silkscale Clan's honor by any means necessary

[Borys]

When a normal guy does it with stupid goat it's not OK.
Same thing when normal Youan-Ti does it with stupid human.
Just gross.

[willpell]

When a normal guy does it with stupid goat it's not OK.
Same thing when normal Youan-Ti does it with stupid human.
Just gross.

Goats can't talk. The difference between human and yuan-ti intelligence is relative, not absolute. If Ruby makes this parallel, she's being just as bigoted as someone who regards black people as monkeys because they read "The Bell Curve".

[sunphoenix]

When a normal guy does it with stupid goat it's not OK.
Same thing when normal Youan-Ti does it with stupid human.
Just gross.

Goats can't talk. The difference between human and yuan-ti intelligence is relative, not absolute. If Ruby makes this parallel, she's being just as bigoted as someone who regards black people as monkeys because they read "The Bell Curve".

Amen!

Love does not necessarily equal a sexual relationship. Though most think that if you love someone you would naturally have sex with them...but that is not an absolute necessity! Minmax and Kin... could very well have a very fulfilling romance love relationship and Never actually have sex. An odd notion, perhaps, to us of today since sex, Sex, SEX is pounded into our faces every moment in popular culture, but True Love is not based solely upon sex {I know a shocking point of view!~}.

[RedwoodElf]

Love is more properly defined as "Caring about another as much as, or more than, you care about yourself."

While Evil can be defined as "The inability to love."

[willpell]

Amen!

Love does not necessarily equal a sexual relationship. Though most think that if you love someone you would naturally have sex with them...but that is not an absolute necessity!

That's not really where I was going with what I said. While I can certainly imagine a relationship that doesn't involve PIV intercourse, I would not be terribly likely to have anything close to "a relationship" in this sense* with someone who couldn't give me any physical intimacy (or whose condition rendered me uninterested in having any with her, even if she was willing; I doubt I could handle being with a woman who lacked legs, or even lacked the use of them). My point was simply that there is no reasonable way that the relationship (no longer in the previous sense*) between two sentient creatures, one of them smarter than the other, can be equated with that between a sapient being and a dumb animal. If communication with goats was possible, if they could be proven to be capable of comprehending such abstracts as "consent", "different species", or even "sex not for the purpose of procreation", then we could establish appropriate protocols for interspecies contact, making some of the same decisions that people within our lifetimes have had to make regarding persons with mental retardation, and perhaps those conundrums imagined by the bigots of earlier generations when they grudgingly admitted that perhaps the Negro was not a lower lifeform after all (I'm not making any judgments as to how close either of those analogies is to the topic at hand; it's far too charged a topic for me to do more than mention it in passing). Eventually, we might come to the conclusion that some animals are people too - dolphins, chimpanzees and gorillas all seem to have nearly comparable intellects, though we have yet to prove that they actually have a language we could ever hope to translate. That might or might not suggest that the taboo on bestiality would need revision; it's too far off to really be worth debating at this point.

* In the first usage, "relationship" could be replaced with the synonym "coupling", referring specifically to something in the domain of the Greek goddess Aphrodite, who ruled over both love and lust, but definitely not mere friendship. Whereas in the second, it denotes any basis-of-interaction between two parties and no longer has overtones of romance or venality. I'm sure I could have found two different words to use in this context, but I lack the patience to hunt for them at the moment.

While Evil can be defined as "The inability to love."

As an ethically-conscious and socially-minded psychopath, or very nearly so, I take great exception to that definition. To me, Love is a meaningless Hallmark cliche, and healthy relationships are essentially business partnerships founded in mutual self-interest, where a modicum of trust is developed and the two parties perform reasonable degrees of give and take, ideally trading what they can easily spare for what the other desperately longs for, but occasionally "extending credit" based on a reasonable certainty that they'll receive something of equal value later on, because they cultivated the affilitation even at some cost to themselves. I believe all of this is wiser, more constructive, and more sustainable than a bunch of loopy romantic notions about Twoo Wuv, and am deeply skeptical of most of the ostensibly profound maxims that are traded about it, such as "true love requires sacrifice"...IMO they seem like they are perpetuated on a basis of spite, treachery, hypocrisy, or at best foolish naivete, and thus, in my life-as-business worldview, they strike me as being the basis of scams, or at least questionable practices.

I don't accept that this attitude qualifies me as "Evil".

[Sushulana]

Scrubbed

Now excuse me while I go and read up on Ayn Rand.

[LAYF]

[mod="LooksAtYouFunny"]Please restrain from insulting and/or attacking other users:

Please respect the other posters. Bashing, name calling, and other forms of insinuating horrible things about another person's intellect or mother is just plain rude and uncalled for.

Please edit your post to reflect this.[/mod]

[Cold Burn]

As an ethically-conscious and socially-minded psychopath, or very nearly so, I take great exception to that definition. To me, Love is a meaningless Hallmark cliche, and healthy relationships are essentially business partnerships founded in mutual self-interest, where a modicum of trust is developed and the two parties perform reasonable degrees of give and take, ideally trading what they can easily spare for what the other desperately longs for, but occasionally "extending credit" based on a reasonable certainty that they'll receive something of equal value later on, because they cultivated the affilitation even at some cost to themselves. I believe all of this is wiser, more constructive, and more sustainable than a bunch of loopy romantic notions about Twoo Wuv, and am deeply skeptical of most of the ostensibly profound maxims that are traded about it, such as "true love requires sacrifice"...IMO they seem like they are perpetuated on a basis of spite, treachery, hypocrisy, or at best foolish naivete, and thus, in my life-as-business worldview, they strike me as being the basis of scams, or at least questionable practices.

I don't accept that this attitude qualifies me as "Evil".

Meh, deny all you like, but if you believe any of that, your are EVIL.
And ignoble to the Nth degree.
But, there are many millions of people out there just like you, all major banks and Govts are run by the same sort, making the world such a wonderfully fun place these days.

Fortunately, the coming Apocalypse will exterminate 90% of the human race, including all the bottom-feeders such as yourself.
'Bout time, too.

Now excuse me while I go and read up on Ayn Rand.

Alright, I'm going to try and help clear things up. you see there is a fundamental problem with the word love- namely how we connect it to romance. You see love and romance share a relationship not totally dissimilar to the relationship between lies and falsehoods. if a person enters into a conversation fully intending to deceive the other participants but is in the possession of incorrect information and as such accidentally relays accurate information this individual would still be lying- even though he told the truth! Love has received similar treatment, though on a scale so grand that rational people can begin to doubt it's existence. Love and sex, while often corresponding are unrelated. Love, or at least what I refer to as love, is what I feel towards those people I value more anyone else- those I would kill for, die for, steal for or condemn an innocent man to die for. In short love refers to the people we think are worth more than everyone else. Do people typically love their spouses? of course human instinct says to value them- is this value inherently different from the bound between siblings? not really. I mean sure there are several things that are expected in a relationship between lovers that would, frankly be unhealthy between siblings but it doesn't mean I care about them less.

Also, i have to ask... where those last two sentences sarcastic or serious?

[Liesmith]

For anyone interested in discussing the topic of love, I direct your attention to a thread in the Controversy section which is set aside specifically for just that:
http://www.goblinsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=617

[Borys]

When a normal guy does it with stupid goat it's not OK.
Same thing when normal Youan-Ti does it with stupid human.
Just gross.

Goats can't talk. The difference between human and yuan-ti intelligence is relative, not absolute. If Ruby makes this parallel, she's being just as bigoted as someone who regards black people as monkeys because they read "The Bell Curve".

Amen!

Love does not necessarily equal a sexual relationship. Though most think that if you love someone you would naturally have sex with them...but that is not an absolute necessity! Minmax and Kin... could very well have a very fulfilling romance love relationship and Never actually have sex. An odd notion, perhaps, to us of today since sex, Sex, SEX is pounded into our faces every moment in popular culture, but True Love is not based solely upon sex {I know a shocking point of view!~}.

I was speaking from the point of view of other Kins, unable to love and hating humans Youan-Tis

[willpell]

Just for the record LAYF, I don't mind any of what Sushulana said. As s/he points out, most of the people who run the world think like I do - and you know what, the world's still running. It may be frustrating at times; certainly I've often condemned the system. But the bottom line is, we know it works. Nobody pressed the button during the Cold War, whereas I firmly believe that if someone with a more romantic and maudlin attitude had been running the show, all it would have taken is one heartbreaking day for them to blast half the planet into oblivion along with their feelings.

if a person enters into a conversation fully intending to deceive the other participants but is in the possession of incorrect information and as such accidentally relays accurate information this individual would still be lying- even though he told the truth!

Interesting point. (And I'm glad that our little row has provoked you to sign up for the forum and post it.)

Love, or at least what I refer to as love, is what I feel towards those people I value more anyone else- those I would kill for, die for, steal for or condemn an innocent man to die for.

An excellent illustration of why I consider it an unhealthy motivation, better avoided by rational and ethical persons.

[LAYF]

Just for the record LAYF, I don't mind any of what Sushulana said. As s/he points out, most of the people who run the world think like I do - and you know what, the world's still running. It may be frustrating at times; certainly I've often condemned the system. But the bottom line is, we know it works. Nobody pressed the button during the Cold War, whereas I firmly believe that if someone with a more romantic and maudlin attitude had been running the show, all it would have taken is one heartbreaking day for them to blast half the planet into oblivion along with their feelings.

I'm glad you do not feel insulted, that does make it lass of an "urgent" problem, but that said, s/he still resolved to name calling and labeling, witch is not allowed or accepted, so the point still stands, but thank you for assuring that you are not hurt.

Best regards -LAYF-

[willpell]

I am of the currently-unpopular opinion that free speech is more important than unbrused egos and unhurt feewings. (I was tempted to invoke the concept of "butthurt" there, but have experienced enough of its literal version to not regard it as a joking matter.)

[sunphoenix]

Uhm...wow.

I just wanted to post a pretty heart-touching scene and some poetry.

I define evil as the lack of concern your actions have on the lives of those around you. Evil people do not care about the lives of those they end, ruin or defame. Good people do care about how their action affect the lives of those around them.

I'll leave it at that... because I know the majority of posters here are atheists, but I put no belief nor pay any gratitude to the postulation that amoral men 'somehow' preserved mankind from blowing themselves to hell... over "one heartbreaking day."

[Catmandont]

Uhm...wow.

I just wanted to post a pretty heart-touching scene and some poetry.

I define evil as the lack of concern your actions have on the lives of those around you. Evil people do not care about the lives of those they end, ruin or defame. Good people do care about how their action affect the lives of those around them.

I'll leave it at that... because I know the majority of posters here are atheists, but I put no belief nor pay any gratitude to the postulation that amoral men 'somehow' preserved mankind from blowing themselves to hell... over "one heartbreaking day."

Right off the bat, I have to thank you for brightening up my day with a bit of poetry, especially in context with the ever growing MM/Kin relationship.

However....

I'm not sure what you're implying with the rest of your statement, or what the dickens atheism has to do with it; It seems you're making broad assumptions on a few things. I suppose I may have interpreted it incorrectly, and the massive amounts of mac and cheese I had for breakfast is affecting my reasoning skills.

YES!! UPDATE TIME!

[RocketScientist]

However....

I'm not sure what you're implying with the rest of your statement, or what the dickens atheism has to do with it; It seems you're making broad assumptions on a few things. I suppose I may have interpreted it incorrectly, and the massive amounts of mac and cheese I had for breakfast is affecting my reasoning skills.

I think I interpreted it the same way you did, FWIW.